USA supremacists planning to ignore the vote

Behind the shocking scenes at Capitol Hill this week were several supremacist militia groups, all given the green light by Trump and treated with kid gloves by the security staff. The largest of them, the Oath Keepers, an armed right-wing organisation with 30,000 law enforcement officers, soldiers and military veterans as members, say they will refuse to recognise Biden as president.

  There are various enraged ‘patriot’ flag wavers and founders of various branches, many sitting on each other’s boards, but all with the same aim – creating mayhem. Dates aren’t available for all but below is what I can find.

  The two key ones of the moment (though they do come and go) are the Oath Keepers, started in 2009 and incorporated on 22 October, as Pluto moved into Capricorn – it looks highly-strung in 2021 and in risk-taking and over-confident mood in 2022/23. The other is the Proud Boys, a male-only outfit, founded by Gavin McInnes which kicked off in 2016 with the paranoid Saturn square Neptune in place.

  McInnes, 17 July 1970, a Neo-fascist who promotes violence against opponents, is a pumped-up Sun Mars in Cancer trine Neptune, sextile, Pluto, and square Jupiter – so a not inconsequential personality. His chart looks worked up to def con levels over the next three to four years with Solar Arc Mercury conjunct his Pluto this in 2021; and tr Pluto opposition his Sun and Mars, trine his Pluto and square his Jupiter. All of which looks volcanic.

Richard Mack, a former sheriff, another leading light on Oath Keepers, 27 December 1952, followed his father’s footsteps into the FBI, and is a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. His ideology was formed at the feet of fellow Mormon, W. Cleon Skousen, a leading light of right-wing radicalism, a theocrat who believed the decline of America began with the 14th Amendment and its guarantee of equality for the former slaves. A former police chief and FBI agent, he whipped up anti-communist fervour under the banner of the John Birch Society. He warned of global elites scheming to create a worldwide, collectivist government; demonized federal regulatory agencies and campaigned to abolish civil rights laws, labour unions, the minimum wage, the income and estate taxes, the direct election of U.S. senators, the wall between church and state.

  He’s a Sun Capricorn with the typical agitated-hatred for authority figures Mars opposition Pluto. He’s not in good health so unlikely to be in the forefront but will no doubt be cheering from the sidelines. His chart looks aggravated in 2023/24, and assuming that isn’t personal issues, there does seem to be a hint of trouble around that period.

  Two others marching to the same drumbeat are rancher and anti-government activist Clive Bundy, 29 April 1946, and his son Ammon, 1 September 1975. Both have strongly aspected and aggressive Mars – Bundy Senior with a Taurus Sun in a formidable square to Mars Pluto in Leo; and Bundy Junior with a Virgo Sun square Marts and Neptune, and Mars trine Pluto. Bundy Snr is another member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints and regards his successful stand off against ineffectual law enforcement in 2014 as divine intervention.

  Bundy Senior is up in arms through the next three months with tr Uranus rattling his Sun and Pluto. Bundy Junior is in full autocratic overdrive for the next three to four years with tr Pluto square his Jupiter and hitting on his Uranus and Saturn.

  Most of these white supremacist groups hate women as well as non-whites, so heaven help Kamala Harris if she had to step into the breach.

   Joe Biden is a fair match for the hate-filled ones since he has Mars in Scorpio square Pluto himself, which he has obviously learned to control. Its more positive attributes include courage, tenacity and do-or-die-determination. Tr Uranus will square his Pluto for the final time next month and then make a disruptive and insecure opposition to his Mars from late May this year, on and off into early 2022. Luckily he’s also got a confident and successful tr Pluto opposition his Jupiter and trine his Sun/Jupiter midpoint from later this month, on and off till late 2022, which should ease his passage into an abnormally challenging presidency – with Covid and its associated economic damage, foreign policy crises, never mind the internal powder keg of the Trump hangover, the racial and poverty divide and dysfunctional law enforcement. He looks exceptionally rattled through 2023/24 with tr Uranus opposition his Mercury, then Sun and Venus, with a hint of health concerns from his Solar Return into 2024.  

   Kamala Harris is feeling the pressure from 2022 onwards with tr Pluto square her Libra Sun and Moon; but again it will be 2023/2024 which are her testing times with Solar Arc Saturn conjunct her Moon and opposition her Sun; as well as tr Uranus square her Mars and shaking up her Fixed T Square into 2024. She does have a strong Jupiter which will bring her some luck and she may need it.

No matter what rocks up for Biden and it’s likely to be a litany of troubles coming at him from all directions, he should find his Jupiter fishes him out of tight spots in the first two years. After that all bets are off.

75 thoughts on “USA supremacists planning to ignore the vote

  1. I’m gonna say it one last time. Given the breaking news, Nancy Pelosi is officially the greatest American political strategist in history. Be it smarts, luck or a combination of both, it is what it is!
    Grimm Reaper….eat your heart out.

    • I just saw that Liz Cheney and Adam Kinzinger will vote for impeachment. The shadowy Deutsche Bank has, reportedly cut all ties with Donald Trump. And on it goes. Having just watched a documentary tonight about what happened last week on ITV (Storming the Capitol: The Inside Story), though, I’m even more horrified than before by the armed militias, and the deep and incendiary rage demonstrated. Plus huge hints that it was all much more organized than was previously suggested. You see a woman directing people up the stairs inside the building. These people will not go quietly will they? Chilling.

      • @Jane, the first one to declare his support was Congressman Katko, and two more Congressmen expressed their support by Tuesday Midnight. Some commentators I follow now predict you could expect at least 10-15 Republicans to vote for impeachment, although many might abstain, as well. And, what’s interesting, they could arrive to that number at Senate for a removal, many Republican Senators eager to block Trump from campaigning for 2024, because interestingly many Republican Senatorial Candidates actually outperformed Trump in 2020. There’s a real chance DJT will end up removed.

      • I watched that too, Jane and the woman directing the mob appeared to have knowledge of the building. How did they manage to find Nancy Pelosi’s office so quickly?

        • Investigations are beginning apparently, including into some of the law enforcement officers present (Pluto transit to US chart). The journalist who put that ITV documentary together will doubtless continue to investigate, he already has a lot of knowledge and experience. The Pluto Mercury theme in the US may also bring about indepth investigations. I usually think of Pluto/Mercury as the DI aspect!

    • @Troy, it’s her Scorpio Moon trine Pisces Mercury instinct that strikes again! I wrote about this earlier, but only now realized Hillary Clinton has this combination, only reversed in that it’s her Mercury (as well as Sun) in Scorpio and Moon in Pisces. She has been prophetic about Trump term, as well. The difference between the two is that Scorpio Moons, among with Aries Moons are, in my opinion, people less likely to care about what people think about them, while Pisces Moons are the exact same. This is what makes Clinton predictable and Pelosi so gloriously unpredictable (even pundits never seem to get her moves right).

      • *exact opposite for Pisces. Pisces Moons are very, very mindful of what people think about them. I have a young person in family who is Pisces Moon, very intelligent and mindful, but even as a toddler, they were very “image aware”.

  2. Biden has natal Pluto in Leo in the 8th house. It is square natal Mars at 12 Scorpio. Natal Pluto is conjunct US North Node at 7 Leo. It is also conjunct USMC if you use Michael Wolfstars’s suggested ASC for the US at 8 Scorpio as I do. The Uranus station this week at 7 Taurus will square Biden’s natal Pluto and the US nodes. It will oppose Biden’s natal Mars.

    Marjorie, what do you make of this? I do not dare interpret.

  3. Although I’m partly British, I feel it sad to totally denounce America as so irredeemable. Yes, it is all the things we have discussed on this thread but let’s remember that so many Americans were originally from Europe, especially Britain, and as they are almost a mirror image of the British Union Chart, one can’t help wondering if America is our British Shadow side. Here we have always sneered and loved to throw contempt on all things American as being materialistic, violent, forcibly taking over a land that was not their own etc. But Britain, Spain, France, Belgium, Portugal, Turkey, Russia and others have all committed cruel misdeeds, have been greedy just as much and were the ones that took all the black slaves over there to make the plantation money that founded many cities in Europe. Basically all human beings have their evil side as well as astonishing ability to do good. Good does prevail for a while, then followed by decay and evil again. We astrologers surely know things go in cycles. I was born in the last World Wars and will end my little cycle in another spate of difficult times. It’s just the wheel turning as the Buddhists say. One has to recall occasionally that this planet is a mere little speck in the vast Universe. How foolish we all are.

    • Definitely agree with much of what you remind us of: that the origins of the US start with especially the English and then other Europeans. And given their circumstances at that time the Shadow side was possibly more where they worked from. What is a shame as of 2021 is now little they have evolved, given their history as a civilization, with integration at a basic level.

  4. Marjorie,

    In the last paragraph of this post, you mention:

    “No matter what rocks up for Biden and it’s likely to be a litany of troubles coming at him from all directions, he should find his Jupiter fishes him out of tight spots in the first two years. After that all bets are off.”

    We have midterm elections every two years. Midterm elections have traditionally been seen as a referendum on which party controls the White House. Historically, with a few exceptions (like the 2002 midterms), the party controlling the White House usually loses control of at least one branch of government (either the House or Senate) in midterm elections.

    If that were to happen in 2022, I could see how Biden might start experiencing policy setbacks- given the hyperpartisan politics that has resulted in an extremely polarized electorate.

    Not that any of us know with certainty how these future challenges for Biden and Harris will manifest themselves, but I was hoping the last part of your post wasn’t a prediction of something more ominous than political setbacks occurring to either of them.

    It was a bit chilling when Andre mentioned the Mars-Uranus conjunction (which I had actually completely forgotten about) in Biden’s inauguration chart and when he used Indira Ghandi and Anwar Sadat as examples.

    • @Chris Romero, I actually don’t think any “conventional wisdoms”, such as party at WH losing midterms matter much anymore in The US Politics. Trump’s legacy is something Republicans are already dealing with – it seems many big Corporations are cutting ties to them. I wouldn’t be surprised if this was still issue at 2022 Elections, especially for Congress where Representatives have to run a campaign every 2 years, and Republicans especially rely heavily on RNC/PAC money. I’m thinking about likes of Arizona Republican Party, whose leadership had the good sense of going after Cindy McCain yesterday asking for censoring her. Honestly, this seems suicidal to me, given how effective a fundraiser she is. It’s almost as if Nazis would have, in 1932, gone after the most influential German industrialists instead of starting to appease them.

      Marjorie would not touch 2022 Midterms (November 8th) chart yet, but it’s interesting. Sun, Mercury and Venus in Scorpio will be exactly oppose Uranus and late in day Moon in Taurus. Retrograde Mars in Gemini squares Retrograde Jupiter in Pisces. Pluto is within a degree of US Natal Pluto. I’d note that despite the tension, it does have a very strong Fixed element. I would say it’s an “establishment chart” rather than revolutionary – an element I see many astrologer NOT getting about Taurus planets, especially Mars. Mars in Taurus is the steady “follow the route” planet. I think I once told a friend with a native Mars in Taurus she has Diesel in her wains (she was a colleague, as well, and I could see how this worked, she was slow to start, but once she was going, she was incredibly reliable, and would usually be the one to actually conclude tasks more fickle people left). So, while it’s still early, I actually read this as more of a favorable chart for some long term reforms “establishment” Dems are working on. I’d look at voter rights and also DC and Puerto Rico Statehoods, which I think are now very much universally supported by Dems (even Senator Manchin said he is open to DC Statehood).

      • she was slow to start, but once she was going, she was incredibly reliable, and would usually be the one to actually conclude tasks more fickle people left

        Taurus is the ‘inertia’ sign.Once we get started don’t get in our path unless you want to be road kill or get cursed out.
        Ha, ha,ha!

        I wish I were as optimistic about the first two years of Biden’s presidency as you are.

        The biggest problem with Democrats is that they are always worried about (losing) the next election and with a slim majority in the House and basically a tie in Senate which basically means gridlock unless the fillerbuster is abolished but that will only happen if all,of the Democrats including Republicrat Joe Manchin plus Kamala Harris concur and no one should consider Joe Manchin a reliable vote for the Democrats.

        One thing you missed was that transitioning Saturn will be in the last degrees of Aquarius and squaring Biden’s latter degree Scorpio planets around the 2022 midterm election so I don’t think that Congressional Democrats do well at ballots.

        • @Roderick, I understand you are being shell shocked a bit here, and want to hold to “Dems at dismay” narrative, but there’s really really little data to show they will be on losing here. Yes, Biden has challenging transits to his Scorpio planets, but this is not solely a referendum on him. If anything, it would be that on House and Senate leadership, and if you look at Pelosi’s chart Uranus/Moon will be conjunct her Venus (I would buy a lottery ticket on a day like this…). But really, I see Midterms are more about general ideas Democrats and Republicans are going to bring forward in the next 2 years.

          And yes, I forgot to mention 29′ anaretic degree Saturn. Saturn on this degree of a sign absolutely indicates an issue that should be decided on urgently. The idea here would be Aquarian, and given the close proximacy to The US Moon would indicate a matter that goes deep into psyche of “We The People”.

          But in all, I think these are going to be very long almost 2 years in The US politics. One thing I expect is that with Trump and most likely late 2021 covid-19 out of
          the way, we are going to start seeing more voting not neatly on party lines, especially in The Senate. Not only because of declared will of “unity”, but because The US is an big country, and States genuinly have very different interests.

        • Seems Chuck Schumer’s transits may be a better barometer than Biden for Democrat success going forward; even as an indicator for who controls the House as a GOP regain would make legislating a pain in the heiny.
          Apparently his birth time is known but for whatever reason most astrologers overlook him. Even Marjorie does more postings about Mitch than him.

          • @Troy, I guess we’re still concentrated on Mitch because he is still majority leader for a week or so. That said, I looked at Schumer’s chart. I think it’s slightly approximated, since they give TOB as 11 am. The chart itself is interesting in that it’s much less focused than charts for politicians in general.This is probably why he is so elusive for astrologer, too. He is a 0’49 Sagittarius Sun conjunct 3′ Venus and 27′ Capricorn Ascendant. 20′ Taurus Moon (interestingly, as are McConnell and Biden, I’ve noticed this previously, too, but Taurus Moon seems excellent for political longevity) opposing 20′ Scorpio MC. Also 29′ Aquarius Jupiter, 13′ Capricorn Mars, 0′ Libra Saturn.

            To recapitulate: On November 8th, 2022, he has Saturn moving to square his Sun/Venus (McConnell is a 0′ Pisces Sun, so this will affect him too), Pluto moving to conjunct his ASC, Saturn exactly conjunct his chart ruler Jupiter, Uranus/Moon on his Moon/IC. One can say that this Election Day is “once in a lifetime” event for him. I would say it could go both ways if it wasn’t for that Pluto on ASC. This is such an obvious “absolute power” transit (Stephen Miller has probably survived at WH this long because of Pluto transiting on his 22′ Capricorn ASC, but unluckily for him and luckily for us, that transit started waning in November) Mitch McConnell might want to retire early and AOC might ruin her career and cause long lasting damage to Progressive Caucus if she chooses challenge Schumer (whose term will end in 2022) for Senate seat now.

          • @Solaia Interesting Schumer has a Capricorn ascendant, as I do. The conjunction of Saturn & Pluto in Capricorn for the last year plus has been horrible.

  5. Carl Bernstein, in a CNN interview, accurately pointed out that Trump is indeed reigniting the Civil War, leading a white supremacist (Confederate flag flying) that refuses to recognize the Union. There are many indications that it was an ‘inside job’ facilitated by certain members of the Capitol Police (and/or perhaps some far-right members of Congress, Hawley foremost). What is certain is that the threat was underestimated, whether intentionally or because ‘white protesters’ couldn’t be violent, despite all evidence to the contrary (ie in Michigan, Oregon).

    As a naturalized citizen, I’ve felt (and experienced) the violence underlying American society, particularly racial, (not that racism doesn’t exist elsewhere, but not so tangibly and violently in daily life) and dreaded another Civil War long before the advent of Trump.

    I can only hope that history doesn’t completely repeat itself, pray for Biden, Harris and Pelosi, and that there are enough Americans (esp in law & order) who will decide to end this national disease once and for all (tho honestly I don’t see how, given how numerous and hard-lined they care, nursing grievances back to the Civil War they lost).

    • terri – some of those old “Yankee-Johnny Reb” mental wars will never be won or resolved. I listened to an interview of a 102-yr old confederate soldier share his thoughts on the war. He felt it was over states rights, not explicitely slavery. Link is here: “” At the age of 16, in 1862, he enlisted in the Confederate Army to fight because the Federals (Yankees) were invading his home, as he himself stated quite clearly. He was a firm believer that the Confederacy did not fight for slavery, that he and his men were fighting to preserve State’s Rights.

      It’s not entirely clear to me what these flag-waving seditionists are claiming as their “god-given rights”. Maybe it is all about getting attention again over those same emotional issues.

  6. There will be an explosive Mars-Uranus conjunction in the 12th house in the Biden Administration chart. That chart will be in effect through his entire term.The conjunction will square the Sun exactly (the President), Jupiter and Saturn, announcing a very difficult four-year period. I would be extremely wary of betrayal by military or police forces. Sadat was assassinated by his own soldiers and Indira Gandhi by her bodyguards. Biden has already asked for the replacement of Secret Service officers loyal to Trump. Kamala Harris and her family should be exceptionally protected at all times for very obvious sexist and mysoginistic reasons.

    • @Andre, I think the main thread 12th house Mars/Uranus in 12th house carries also a danger that this presidency will be hindered by the sense of being “under siege”. There’s also a danger of isolating elected officials too much physically will lead to them seem inaccessable to voter. Which is exactly what terrorists aim to, too.

      As for assassinations, I’d want to remind everybody on how historically, context matters. And astrologically speaking, signs, too. Indira Gandhi’s second term as PM January 1980 had a Scorpio Uranus/Mars. Obviously very telling of a Plutonian assassination by her lifeguards. And I suppose you are using a 1980 Prime Minister chart for Sadat here? He was effectively a military dictator, who ruled under different offices after Nasser’s death in 1970, when his Presidency started, and him taking over PM position, too, in 1980. But this wasn’t “the inciting incident” in his assassination, it was the peace treaty with Israel.

      For a “closer to home” assassination attempt on US President, you have to go way back to 1981, to Reagan assassination attempt. It’s intereating to note Reagan’s 1981 Inaugural chart had, in fact, a Scorpio Uranus square Aquarius Mars. This attempt was, if anything, counterproductive in that it cemented Reagan’s popularity and lead to Secret Service revising their practises.

    • If you look at the post Nov 9 2020 on past Inaugurations – where there were assassinations or attempts Mars Pluto was more marked than Mars Uranus.

      • @Marjorie, this probably was there, on back of my head. I agree Mars/Pluto is a key, especially for “inside jobs”. Mars/Uranus circa 1980 probably was enhanced by Uranus in Scorpio. Late 1970’s and early 1980’s with Uranus is Scorpio in general saw enhanced terrorist activity. The one that I always return to was kidnapping and assassination of Aldo Moro. I obviously don’t remember it personally, because I was all of 18 months old. But this was still very much in minds of Italians when I lived there, over 20 years later. Moro was murdered in May 9th 1978, and the day had relative close (2′ orb) Leo Mars square Scorpio Uranus, but also sextile Libra Pluto.

    • Uranus Saturn can indicate a breakdown in the status quo and established norms, a period of disruptive, radical change – ‘out with old, in with the new’. Especially with a tense, hard square aspect, any resistance will be futile – there could be a feeling of shock and unavoidable change as old structures that are past their sell by date are dismantled by Uranus. Also, economic hardship (maybe that is the trigger) is very much linked to Uranus Saturn which has been mentioned before.

      • @Sarah, I’ve long looked at Aquarius Saturn square Taurus Uranus of 2021 in terms of “Big Tech” breakout. Besides obvious privacy issues, there are many antitrust issues with tech companies. EU and even some US States, most interestingly California, have been effective in enforcing privacy restrictions, but antitrust issues for The US companies can only be effectively dealt with Federal US legislation. There has been very little political will for that, especially from Republicans but also among Moderate Democrats. But one surprising outcome of the coup attempt on Capitol organized and streamed online and following deplatforming of certain apps might be a renewed interest in looking at how much power tech companies have. You might even find some “strange” bedfellows here, given people with a direct interest in the issue would be polar opposite in just about any other issue.

  7. My my, how the tables have turned. Who are the “snowflakes” now?!
    Apparently they never learned their lesson from the last civil war. The days of coddling these degenerates and ingrates are over!

  8. Hello Marjorie – The $64K question for the US: when does it ever end? One or two generations of Oath Keepers? Will the US devolve/evolve into a dysfuntional/dystopian country (ala Hunger games)? Folks are gnashng their teeth over the overwhelming shouts of Shakespeare thru Julius Caesar: “Cry ‘Havoc!’, and let slip the dogs of war.”

    Or does the US melt eventually into a boring banana republic?

    I think this is what drives many of us.

    • I have a slight impression that this latest incident on top of all the previous is finally dragging the bottom of the sewers into public view. Which may be Pluto doing its thing. The USA is being forced to take off its rose coloured glasses and have a good look at itself (hopefully – ever the optimist) and only after that, presumably the Pluto Return will there start to be a less hysterical mood. 2022 has got rid of the hyper- Pluto opposition the USA Mercury. I think 2021 will bring a pervading sense of failure – which is A GOOD THING. It gets the country out of its old ego-centric mindset. Humility is a great teacher. But changing mindsets is no easy matter – it takes a revolution and a good many full wash, rinse and spins with a scary phase in the middle. of which more anon tomorrow.

      • It’s very interesting how countries react to certain situation, especially their governments, isn’t it? The US in this instance are fighting for their own self-entitlement while demanding restrictions for others. The French seemingly stand together, ala revolution, and burn cars and flags demanding to be heard collectively. Then there is us Brits, who will often just toddle off down to the bottom of the allotment and whinge and moan about a problem over a cup of tea and a digestive biscuit and not actually really do anything at all. In Britain you can just hear the collective tut and sigh and then a kettle being switched on in the background!

        • Oooh not sure Pluto moves that fast. The transformation process moves in three phases: 1) collapse of the old; 2) living through the ashes phase which is bleak; 3) then the slow rebuild starts.

          • The US Pluto return will complete its deconstruction and destructive work in 2023. Rebirth begins when Pluto enters Aquarius in November 2024 at the time of the next presidential election. Neptune will then be in the last degree of Pisces. The only President elected at the end of Neptune in Pisces was Abraham Lincoln. In the next four years, Biden is likely to be overwhelmed.

      • I hope this is so. Right now I have the images of the storming of the Capitol running through my head in the way I had images of the planes flying into the World Trade Center for weeks after 9/11. And if this is pluto, and the nation being made to loook at itself then I think it is interesting that some of the “9/11 was an inside job brigade” have gone on to form Q anon and created an real inside job where it IS Americans that are trying to destroy America.

  9. “The Oath Keepers, an armed right-wing organisation with 30,000 law enforcement officers, soldiers and military veterans as members, say they will refuse to recognise Biden as president.”

    Shame, shame, shame on them! Supposedly law-abiding officers and ex-force members? I’m astonished at those numbers. No wonder they did absolutely sod all during the Capitol riot. They opened the gates, cracked jokes, took selfies, and helped people down the steps during this ugly debacle. People, meaning white TERRORISTS! But during the BLM peaceful protests, they were in full riot gear and on def con level toxic masculinity alert by throwing women and kids violently around and taking peoples eyes out with rubber bullets. What heroic men they are.

    The US police force really is swollen with pig-ugly racists and misogynists. I hope to god these disgusting excuses for men and police officers/military sorts are removed from their positions of power and put into jail for their role in defying democracy and using violence to overthrow it. For a long time. I wouldn’t be surpised if their favourite past time, besides pulling people of colour aside to terrorise or snuff out, is knocking twelve shades of crap out of the missus or assaulting women, just so they can brag about it in the locker rooms to see who can get the highest ‘real man’ scores. Yes, i’m triggered if its not clear, lol! EEEeeurghhh! I feel so sorry for the more well-adjust American who has to live through this crap and these kinds of ugly, brazen sorts. I won’t say men because they are not even that.

    • It’s disturbing, Jo. And trying to have a reasoned argument with these people is like attempting to negotiate with an abusive partner, they shift the goalposts, they use outright denial, they will gaslight, they will say black is white and white is black. Then, when they do something outrageous and hurt people, they play the victim when their actions have consequences. They will then blame and scorn the real victims. It’s like a collective narcissism. You cannot win using argument and debate, they will simply call you a communist, godless or an enemy of democracy.

      It’s occurred to me just how difficult it must be for a country to have natal Mercury in Cancer opposed by Pluto, because Mercury in Cancer isn’t particularly comfortable here. When Mercury is touched by the moon or Cancerian influence in an individual chart, that person may struggle to have perceptions uncoloured by emotions and emotional trauma they may have experienced. Add Pluto there is a lot of fear and paranoia into the mix.

      • Would Mars in Cancer be similar to this, VF? I have a brother who I’m not close to who is Aquarius Sun, Taurus Moon, and Mars in Cancer. If there is something going on in general life he will always use an emotional bent to turn it into all about him. Have a sob story, he’s got one better. Got an horrific one, he’ll make one up. It’s all about him. He has very thin skin and will give off the ‘blue-eyed agony’ look when faced with the truth.

        When the lockdown kicked off he thought it was perfectly rational to send my mother an audio file via Facebook about an article stating the lockdown was happening because the government was going to collectively execute the masses and they had graves ready to prove it! So quite rational then. Then he will make remarks like, “We need to be careful about black men, they are coming into this country and taking all our women.”

        So narcissistic, a fantasist, thrives on conspiracy porn, racist and mysogynistic. What a catch he must be to women who aim so low! Unfortunately, I have found a lot of people from the lower-working class environment I grew up in to have similar views. A lot of my family hold these views too. I think I’m on the high-functioning autistic spectrum and quite glad to be so considering what I could have inherited! I did get into the conspiracy thing for a will in the early 2000’s and it has taken a while to shake off completely. But I’m thankful I now have an intense allergy to them these days. I would have thought Mars in Cancer would make one, especially men, volcanicly angry?

        • I’m not the greatest astrologer, but my Dad had Mars in Cancer along with Sun, Mercury, Venus and Pluto. Wow, could he be impossible at times! He also couldn’t cope with his own anger and resorted to alcohol under the influence of which he would become even more angry. I think Mars in Cancer perhaps is not as easy for men who have grown up with the old ‘men shouldn’t cry or display too much emotion’ thing, as it is for women.

          I myself have Moon conjunct Mars and struggle with the drama and intensity of emotion which I think can be one expression of this aspect. With mine in Scorpio I have the capacity to be a catastrophiser and to my shame I get overwrought and people have to tell me to shut up!

          Catastrophic thinking is actually a symptom of anxiety. With Moon/Mars people, they’ve often grown up with an angry or frustrated mother too, or the domestic environment is Mars-like in some way.

          • Yes, my mother is moon opposing mars and she really gets on my boobs! LOL. Constantly whinging and rattling off. I mentioned anxiety and stress to her, but of course only other people have that! She had an angry cancerian mother but she was/is also an angry mother too. My father who i have no contact with was quite predatory with huge anger problems – he was cancerian too. I have cancer moon, so her and my father’s outbursts and actions would cut deep.

            But my moon is conjunct saturn (cancer) and square pluto, very indicative of my mother. She’s on the narcissistic range (not trump level, thank god!) and i think I feel that pluto more than anything. She’s cold but possessive. Doesn’t really like me (I’m female!) but likes to control the outcomes of everything I do. And I have had a lifelong fight to break out of how I see myself; I see myself through my mothers eyes, which is small and inconsequential – I think that’s very plutonic? Sometimes I wonder if I will break past that intense boundary in this life – but I do know its self-imposed. Cancer in astrology has quite an ugly side, doesn’t it? Isn’t also deeply tied into American evangelism?

          • I think you must be a similar age to my niece, she has Moon conjunct Saturn too and Pluto in Libra. Big mother problems – she was the responsible one in the family, looked after her grandmother when only a child, never knew her father – he bolted when she was a toddler – while her mother and younger sister are pretty immature, irresponsible and self-absorbed. Moon/Saturn are often like this, showing incredible amounts of responsibility long before they’re adults. Often they have no choice but to grow up fast. She had her first child at the age of 16 as is often the case with young girls from dysfunctional homes, is still with the father, had two more and they’re both amazing, caring parents, kids are bright, lovely people and will do well.

            Like Sun/Saturn, it’s an aspect that gets easier with maturity. They often become more youthful as they age as they can finally discover within themselves, the child they were never allowed to be.

          • That’s good news, VF, that she and the father are still together all this time. I guess by the time she turned 16, emotionally she was more like 35!

            I’ve always felt like I had to mother my own mother from a young age. She’s still extremely emotionally immature for 66 but she’s damaged. I was afraid of her anger for a long time. I was around 40 when I stopped giving a toss. Now when she goes off on one, instead of pandering to her like I used to just to keep the peace, I will outright tell her, “Go away and have your bloody toddler tantrum elsewhere. I’m sick of dealing with you squealing day in and day out like an irritating child.” And I’ll ignore her. She always comes back to me.

            If I do get into contact with her we just go on as if nothing happened until the next time. But I can deal with her these days, thank god. But she is a grind because it’s like dealing with a spoilt brat pensioner! LOL. I’ll have to move in with her shortly due to the current circumstances. But when we do fall out, she WILL leave me alone because she’s too busy sulking! So there is that. I can’t imagine Trump would do that for his kids! That’s good to know about the moon/saturn energy getting easier with age. I’m 46 now and I suppose it does feel easier. Before it felt like a life sentence of being trapped and repressed.

          • Very interesting commentary between the two of you. Jo, I really hope you and your mom keep the peace while living together. Your brother sounds hard like Dick Cheney and his Aqu -Taurus squares. Jo, I may be like your mother. I am very Cancerian with a Cancer Moon conjunct South Node, just to left of the Midheaven, and a smattering of other planets in Cancer. My daughter has Moon-Saturn near exact conjunction in Scorpio in the 8th. We’ve had quite a tumultuous relationship. My Scorp Venus is conjunct her Moon in Scorpio too, and her Mars in Scorpio is also in the 8th. But what seems to save us now, is that her Jupiter is exactly sextile her Moon-Saturn conjunction. She is also a wonderful example of a person who has overcome the difficulties of life. Our relationship is very smooth now that she is in the thirties and is a mom. She told one of her therapists as a teen that I’m either too possessive or not caring enough. (My Mars is in Cap, opp the Moon) I have a wonderful mom, always been that way, lucky me. But I’ve had so many friends who struggled with their moms. If they only told those moms that “I need you to be supportive of me,” they could have changed the relationships. With my daughter, we understand the unique difficulties that we’ve faced. She stopped the blame game towards me and that goes a long way to making the relationship a happy one! My Libra planets and Venus in Scorpio always helped me see her side when she was angriest at me. I didn’t play blame game, but boy was she hurtful and nasty to me.

        • Not sure Mars in Cancer makes for volcanic anger. ONe would need to see other aspects to the Mars in your brother’s chart, Jo. And Sun/Aquarius is a detached cold sign emotionally, normally able to distance from feeling issues. My daughter has Mars in Cancer, on a Cancer ascendant but is gentle and seldom gets into any sort of rage. She is self centred and can be picky and irritable but despite my own Mars in Capricorn opposing her Mars, we seldom quarrel. She tends to escape via her Pisces Moon into films and publishing books. Maybe she gets it out through working with crime fiction!

          • I’m a Mars in Cancer woman with it trine a tight Moon/Venus conjunction in Scorpio. My Mars is also in a tight applying semi-square to my Pluto, which itself is tightly conjunct the IC on the 4th house side. In my own life, I’ve tended to turn my anger inward and struggled with depression from early childhood till my first Saturn return. I remember reading astrologer Caroline Casey’s description of Cancer as “Scorpio in a housecoat.”

    • Jo, it’s really no surprise if you are aware that some of the history of the police force in the US includes many being members of KKK patrolling areas looking for runaway slaves as well as lynching others as examples to ensure slaves knew their place or to dish out punishments. Or something to that effect.

      So frankly no surprise at all.

      • That doesn’t surprise me at all. I watched the documentry ’13th’ on Netflix this summer and just sat there astounded at what had taken place over the past hundred or so years. And what was clearly taking place today. The whole prison system is not set up for usual law and order, though it does govern this aspect by default. The whole system is rigged and basically a slave system for African-americans. I couldn’t believe the amount of black men, particularly who were going to jail for silly things; like walking on the wrong side of the road. And because they were poor and couldn’t afford to pay their bail, they were left rotting in the prison system. The way the media is set up to demonize them even has black communities believing the worst of themselves.

        And today, one of the groups who fund and support this ideal of slave labour from african-american prisoners is a Christian organization (oh what a damn surprise!) called ALEC (American Legislative Exchange Council). Even Mike Pence is a big fan (don’t know if he is a member).

        He and they are absolutely shameful, evil in fact. America is fast exposing itself to be one of the most rotten countries on the planet built on the backs of slavery, even to this day. If I was to put a face on the ‘American Identity’ it would be the IT clown, Pennywise, lol. All nice and lovely to your face but get too close, it exposes its dark sinister side and will rip you to pieces. I think I would sooner go to North Korea than the States, lol.

    • Jo,

      You should read James Ellroy’s “Underworld USA” trilogy if you want to understand
      America. They are very bleak and violent, however, he captures a period of US
      history that very few people wish to publicly acknowledge.
      He said:-“Bad white men built America.” Donald Trump would be a central character
      in his terrifying novels.
      He probably wouldn’t be surprised by the terrible events that just took place.

      • Wiki: The Underworld trilogy tells of political and legal corruption in the USA between 1958 and 1973. Running into the assassination of JFK, then Martin Luther King Jr. and Robert F. Kennedy; the Vietnam War, the death of J. Edgar Hoover, the Black Power movement, the and the Nixon administration.
        Ellroy said: “The essential contention of the Underworld USA trilogy … is that America was never innocent.
        America was founded on a bedrock of racism, slaughter of the indigenous people, slavery, religious lunacy … “

      • Thanks Robert, I will check these out. I never knew he was behind the books of the films I’ve seen; The Black Dahlia and L.A. Confidential (Love this one). Looks like he covers the 1940s and 50s part of American history which I like in films, so I’ll probably enjoy the books too.

        Yes, bad white men built America (and probably most of the modern Western world) and you could add to that that they also like poking around in and controlling other countries business too to glean more power for themselves. I know in the past when on social platforms when certain Americans keep spouting how they are ‘the greatest that ever was and is and the rest of the world wouldn’t be the same without them’, I remind them that their power has been built on the backs of slavery and tearing down other countries and cultures. There’s not much to be proud of.

        If having lots of money and material possessions at the expense of looking after people, you need your head rinsing out. Cue patriotic rage. I’m British and I just don’t get patriotism at all. It’s a failure to face up to our own shadow and hide behind the mind programming and pretend we are something we are damn well not. I don’t hold my own government in much regard either. The ‘patriots’ here are usually the National Front types; pasty-faced, beer bellied, self-entitled white men who probably have more domestic violence violations attached to their group than any other.

        • Jo,

          The novels make unsettling reading, but they are very impressive
          if you want to know the thoughts of a particular type of white
          American male. Trump is just like those characters.
          Deeply unpleasant, racist, sexist, and homophobic.
          If he had bothered to do any reading, he would cheer them on.

        • Jo,

          I’m British as well.
          I totally agree with your comments on the current government.
          I noticed that Nigel Farage, (NF to his friends) is keeping a
          very low profile……..

          • Robert – I read yesterday that Nigel Farage is supporting the idea of Tony Blair advising the current government on the vaccine rollout. Are we all living in Alice Through the Looking Glass? Curiously, Aries Nigel has Moon Sagittarius (like Trump) trine Jupiter in Aries, conjunct Tony Blair’s Mercury in Aries. Tony Blair has Moon in Aquarius, as does the USA.

            “When I use a word,’ Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, ‘it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less.’

            ’The question is,’ said Alice, ‘whether you can make words mean so many different things.’

            ’The question is,’ said Humpty Dumpty, ‘which is to be master — that’s all.”
            ― Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking Glass

          • Nigel Farage has started up a new party, Reform U.K. and also leads an anti-lockdown campaign. Not content with the impact he’s already had on the future of the U.K., he now wants us all to die of COVID.

            I always remember when Trump was first elected, Farage embarrassed us all by assuming Trump would appoint him U.K. ambassador. There’s a rather unpleasant image in my mind’s eye of Farage and the Orange Menace standing outside that awful gin palace, Trump Towers.

          • VF – no! I, too, now recall that picture. It seems like such a long journey since then doesn’t it? I see the Oath Keepers chart also has a Sagittarius Moon, like Trump and Farage. More of the mutability theme of recent years? Is this connected to Neptune in Pisces, and the way so much keeps slipping just out of reach, or out of reach of what’s sane and rational? Neptune currently squaring the nodes (people?) is maybe adding to the general atmosphere.

      • Did you know about the connection between mass shooters and domestic violence, Jo? I think it’s as many as 50% of this type of criminal has a record of domestic violence, you can google it.

        Also, the casual, unthinking antipathy towards the BLM movement is interesting in the sense that it is like a collective act of denial and the refusal to hear history from any other point of view. The lack of courage to listen to the wrongs committed against entire races, or even to have the ability to recognise that upon one enslaved race’s back America was built and grew rich and that such a foundation should be acknowledged if healing is to take place. It takes an emotionally mature and self-honest nation to be able to accomplish this.

        • I did, yes, VF. Which to me is a clear indication that misogyny is the root cause to all the problems we have in the world. It really needs addressing because its destroying everything.

          • Not just misogyny, I would say unfortunately “organized” religion installing fear in people and telling them how to live their lives as well.

    • When did the American police ever ‘take peoples eyes out’ with rubber bullets?
      Sorry, I missed that one.

      But I do remember the French police, under the orders of Emanuel Macron doing exactly that during the Gilets Jaune protests of a couple years back.
      Macron, is of course, a designated lefty liberal good guy, so he gets a free pass on that. The Gilets Jaunes, are nothing but mere contemptible white trash to the elitists, so they deserved their blindings and maimings.

  10. I am extremely concerned re the safety of Biden, Harris et al on inauguration day. I think Jan. 6 was a mere rehearsal for a truly catastrophic follow-up. If I’m not mistaken, the planets bear out that possibility. There’s a lot of talk about the Jan. 6 breach of the capitol building having been an inside job, aided and abetted by D.C. cops and security personnel and perhaps Trump himself, who clearly egged on the insurgents. I’m envisioning Trump welcoming his insane cult into the White House just before he leaves the premises. Far-fetched, I know. Or is it? The man is obviously crazy and these are crazy times.

    • @Julie, my gut feeling is the plan on Capitol was, for certain groups, to get in using what I call hapless MAGA Tourists as a shield. This is much more difficult to pull of for Inauguration, given much stricter security in Washington DC and their usual channels for publishing the events have been closed.

      What I do see happening are more local events on State Capitols. We’ve already seen them. There even was an event like this in Kentucky over the weekend.

  11. From Buzzfeed; “The supporters of President Donald Trump who rioted in the US Capitol building on Wednesday had been openly planning for weeks on both mainstream social media and the pro-Trump internet. On forums like TheDonald, a niche website formed after Reddit banned the subreddit of the same name, they promised violence against lawmakers, police, and journalists if Congress did not reject the results of the 2020 election.”

    I think more information is going to emerge over the coming weeks regarding the organisation behind the insurrection.

    • VF: I think Mars in Cancer perhaps is not as easy for men who have grown up with the old ‘men shouldn’t cry or display too much emotion’ thing, as it is for women

      I have always heard that Cancer aspects are difficult for men in general.

  12. Marjorie, thank you for opening a separate thread on this. Far Right groups are something I’ve been on an intensified look out since 2015, when I saw, with my own eyes, how they participated and, in a way, lead, anti-refugee demonstrations in Finland. These happened literally on my then workplace’s doorsteps, also a mere block from our Parliament house, making it very much a personal safety issue for me. I can’t stretch how triggering seeing what happened at Capitol Building was to me, because it was what might have happened here. Obviously, scale 100.

    As more serious media outlet curated footage emerge, it becomes more and more apparent there were groups present at Capitol who had far more sinister ideas than simply take some selfies there. People with tie clips and others with full swat gear, who probably wished to enter in general confusion. People who probably didn’t use Twitter or even Parler (now effectively to be deplatformed, since Amazon’s hosting service will kick them out) to communicate their intentions (I’d look at Tor, or coded messages elsewhere). I’m thinking there will, eventually, be a lengthy investigation to these happening, with real terrorism charges dropping to people we’ve still haven’t heard about.

    Therefore, it might be helpful to look at likely incoming AGs, Merrick Garland’s, chart. Last week, when Biden announced choice, many left from center Democrats were somewhat disappointed. However, Garland has effectively been part of prosecution of every major non-Islamic Domestic Terrorism case in The US in the past 25 years. It makes me think that Biden intuited this – or something like this – was coming. It might be one of the “positive” sides of his Mars square Pluto – he knows when something is “cooking”.

    • Thanks @Marjorie. Im not so concerned about the inauguration given your astrology around it “surprising Pluto in Midheaven and Jupiter in the 10th house. The cat is out of the bag, and the eyes are wide open. However, I’m very concerned about the period 2022-24 as you describe it. Adding in the chart you did a while back on Jill Biden, it sounds extremely ominous for this country. Looks as though by 2024 you will be utterly saturated on running charts on the US.

  13. The spirits of Gerald L.K.Smith, Richard Spencer, and David Duke are still present
    in American society. How utterly dispiriting.

    Here is proof that America was never great.

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