Queen & Charles – Royal mothers and disapproval ++ Coronation oath

There was a bizarre and slightly pathetic mise-en-scene for the Queen’s Speech with the Imperial State Crown minus its keeper sitting centre spotlight on a cushion, effectively upstaging Prince Charles who had to perform the political ritual. If it was a pointed reminder that the Queen had sworn lifelong devotion to the throne, it didn’t work. Her appearance two days later in beaming good spirits at a horse show added to the tone deafness of the exercise.

  No one begrudges her pleasures after a gruelling lifetime of service or would be anything other than understanding of her handing over the reins to Charles as Prince Regent.  But as her vanity stops her being wheelchaired into state occasions, the question of her misgivings about whether Charles is up to the job looms large. Added to which she is extraordinarily fixed and rigid so dislikes change and may, like her mother, have a strong resistance to stepping back from a front line status.

  Queen Victoria, who left her son and heir Edward deprived of political influence until he was 60, before she died and handed over the reins, famously disapproved of him but his subsequent ten year reign turned out, much to everyone’s surprise, to be successful. He was charming, had a string of mistresses, but was progressive in his views on tolerance and alleviating class divisions.  

   Like Charles, King Edward V11, 9 November 1841 10.48 am London, was a Sun Scorpio. His relationship with his mother Queen Victoria was fraught with his Virgo Moon being opposition Uranus  – and her tough, chilly, disciplinarian Saturn Pluto in Pisces being opposition his Moon and her Uranus Neptune square, sitting on his Ascendant and Saturn. Not a great mix.

  What he also shared with Charles was the Mars Pluto cross over with his mother. Edward’s Pluto in Aries was conjunct Victoria’s Mars with his Mars Square – he would be trapped and enraged by the power imbalance in their relationship.

  Charles’ Pluto opposes his mother’s Mars with his Sun square – so similar. And it’s worse in their relationship chart with a composite Pluto opposition Mars Jupiter. Jupiter Pluto suggests a tussle for the upper hand. Mars Pluto which appears in many of the Queen’s relationships is an indication that there is only one power figure in the family. It may be partly her spiritual pledge to the throne but she makes it abundantly clear that she calls the shots and no one else. What makes the chemistry between herself and Charles trickier still is a composite Sun square Uranus hinting they need a good deal of space from each other and have differing agendas and outlooks with neither willing to compromise.

  Charles and his mother are additionally an uneasy mix despite his 10th house Taurus Moon being exactly conjunct her Sun, because her critical Saturn is conjunct his Sun which will be fault-finding and dampen his self-esteem.

  Throughout a long reign Queen Elizabeth has been selfless and conscientious to a staggering degree, rarely putting a foot wrong and in recent years has seemed like a beacon of stability to the country. But her judgement about certain members of the close family has always been her Achilles Heel, over-critical about Charles and under-by-a-mile of Andrew. Her relationship with Charles is the most fraught of all her children which must make it impossibly difficult for him.

  I can’t find an exact time for the oath at the Coronation chart, 2 June 1953 (does anyone have it?) but it is sagging this year with tr Neptune square the Mars and may have the Solar Arc Midheaven (on an 11am start time) square the Saturn.

  What is for sure is that 2023 will see huge changes for both the Queen and Charles with tr Pluto in Aquarius square Charles’ Moon and the Queen’s Sun from late March onwards. Even before then the Scorpio/Taurus Eclipses are rattling the Queen’s Midheaven and Saturn and Charles’ Sun and Mercury in Scorpio at the moment and through this year. Tr Uranus is also square Charles’ Pluto from next month hinting at the start of an upheaval running into 2023; with added pressure from tr Uranus opposition his Sun in 2023.

  When Edward V11 succeeded his mother Victoria in 1901 there were also Scorpio/Taurus Eclipses in place.

  A sad passing of an era – and it will be a considerable wrench and jolt for the country. But life must go on.

Add On: As near as I can make it the oath was taken twenty minutes after the 11am start of the ceremony. That would put the Taurus Midheaven in line for a decisive change of direction across the middle of this year, and into early 2023.

14 thoughts on “Queen & Charles – Royal mothers and disapproval ++ Coronation oath

  1. The composite Mercury Mars Jupiter conjunction widely opposes the emphasized final degree Pluto in Cancer suggesting there has been deep-rooted friction between the pair – they fought over the acceptance of Camilla. Camilla’s Sun at 24 Cancer opposes the composite Mars Jupiter in Capricorn. Her Sun Asc midpoint is conjunct the final degree composite Pluto in Cancer. It has been reported that Queen referred to Camilla as that ‘wicked woman’ because she would not leave Charles alone. It seems that the Queen and Philip had sympathy for Diana initially. Not only was Charles emotionally damaged, and spoilt by the Queen Mother, he was resentful of the popularity of someone barely out her teens.

  2. A little off base – Charles William and Harry are all married to older women – I wonder that the power of the Queen so close to their personal lives has shift perspective to render female power ordinary and us there any inkling of this in their charts with water and earth suns and moons

  3. I see that BBC said “The monarch, 96, has been instructed by doctors to cancel her attendance at the event and is doing so “reluctantly”.”

    If this is true, not an expedient half-truth of politics, then there may be no political symbolism at all. It might literally be only an actual mobility problem of a very elderly woman.

    CNN summarizes. “The monarch dons the Robe of State before leading a procession to the House of Lords upper chamber where she sits on a throne and formally opens a new session of parliament, reading a speech written by the government outlining its legislative plans.”

    In the U.S., in past years I have seen TV coverage of the speech itself, but not of the procession. Would this path in the building include to climb a flight of stairs, built long before wheelchair accessibility was a public issue? If an elevator/lift was retrofitted into the building, would it be undignified to have to roll down some back hallway, while the rest of the traditional grandeur-clad people stride up the stairs?

    She is certainly famous across the Pond for being the one clearly in charge to lead her family, for her tireless activity to represent the institutions, for her always honoring the formalities. If her doctors really said, “You could go if you insist, but only at the expense of looking like a struggling and gasping invalid, not like a grand symbol of the Kingdon,” I could very much imagine her saying, “In that case, we shall not go.”

  4. The Queen did not attend the state opening of Parliament in 1959 or 1963 as she was pregnant with Andrew and Edward so her absence this year was not without precedent. On those occasions the Lords Commissioners read the speech. As the current set of protocols for the event were established as long ago as 1852 one assumes the crown was on an empty throne on those past occasions as well. Queen Victoria skipped all the state openings of Parliament from 1862-1865 after Albert died. Although the monarchy is hereditary constitutionally it really exists as an institution separate from the people who occupy the role. If Parliament does not like the incumbent, the heir or the dynasty it can replace them as it has done on occasions in the past.

  5. Nerdy thought: the BBC color broadcast seems to be available online and was originally broadcast starting at 1030. Can you get the oath’s time by working backwards from the BBC color broadcast’s runtime, given the broadcast start time?

  6. Hi Marj I found an earlier post of yours with the Queen’s coronation chart….here are your comments and your coronatiion chart for the Queen.
    ” Her Coronation chart, 2 June 1953 11am London does have a lacklustre, panicky-failure feel from late this April onwards for two years with tr Neptune square the Mars Mercury in Gemini. It has a 12 degree Taurus Midheaven (which will be a later degree if the oath-taking which I can’t find is used). That certainly suggests a sudden change of direction, bumpy ride etc. As does the Moon around 11 degrees Aquarius which is catching the same jolting influences”.


    • So the coronation MC just caught the April 30th solar eclipse while the Queen’s natal MC as has been mentioned before will catch the lunar eclipse tomorrow. And the coronation Moon was catching the Saturn-Uranus square until recently. Interesting! Thanks Martha!

  7. not her vanity that prevents use of a wheelchair but the logistics of moving the conveyance about – the whole thing would descend into a never-to-be-forgotten loss of imperative grandeur, and a field day for anti-royalists and cartoonists, not to mention extra tedium for the waiting attendants and spectators.

  8. As an aside, I wonder if HMQ’s non-presence at the state opening of Parliament was also a subtle dig against Johnson. Marjorie, have you ever done a composite or comparison of HMQ and our current PM?

    Also Charles’ face was a picture as he was reading the Queen’s speech. I couldn’t decide if he was thinking he wasn’t satisfied with the situation, or whether he thought the speech written for the Queen was a load of drivel (perhaps a blend of the two)!

  9. Have been having this conversation with a few people recently (re the succession) and my mother told me how she remembers the Queen returning from some extended tour (this may have been late 50s, early 60s) and how she was filmed arriving by train in London where a schoolboy Charles waited on the platform and how when his mother met him, he simply awkwardly shook hands with her, no motherly embrace, no warmth. So ok, I know this is how things were at the time but even someone of my mother’s generation found this scene odd and as she said ‘sad’ for the young boy. You can see that Sun/Saturn synastry right there.

    • Yes, and this happened more than once. There’s a truly heartbreaking photo (and probably footage too) of 4 year old Charles greeting his parents after a five month Commonwealth Tour. His nanny pushes him forwards to shake hands with his mother. I came across this in the course of work, in case you suspect I’m a royal nut! But before this, the Queen left him when he was one or two years old to go and see Philip, then based in Malta.
      While I recall our parents leaving us children (aged 7 and 5) with our grandparents for a week’s holiday on their own, I cannot imagine how five whole months would feel to a small child.

      On the other hand, we had an elderly family friend who was sent – as were countless others – by ship from India, aged 7, to go to boarding school in England. Her parents did not accompany her, and she barely saw them after that. This was normal for people of a certain class. Meanwhile, most children were leaving school at 12 until 1918, when the age was raised to 14. It rose to 16 in the early 1970’s. The aristocracy in particular always seemed keen to be free from their children, which may explain quite a lot when you think about it! I wonder what the astrological signature might be for ‘Nanny’?

      • Charles was very close to his grandmother. He was only three years old when George VI died and the Queen Mother was apparently very maternal towards him. There are plenty of photographs showing her hugging him in public. Perhaps a chart showing their relationship would be useful.

        Diana was not above reproach in the maternal department. I read where both William and Harry would turn to their nanny, Barbara Barnes, when anxious or feeling vulnerable – even climbing into her bed in the morning. Diana was very jealous of the bond and sacked the nanny peremptorily – not even giving her the opportunity to say good bye to the boys or explain her departure.

        So William and Harry must have felt abandoned at two periods when growing up – losing the most important women in their lives at significant stages. I am not surprised they reacted badly. I dread to think what will happen to Harry if he loses another one ie if his wife deserts him.

        • The Queen Mother’s date of birth is iffy since her father – aristo to the core – didn’t consider it worth his while to register it until circa six weeks later. But if reasonably sound at 4 August 1900 she was a Sun Leo which would connect with Charles’ Pluto – but she was a tricky old bat, not all meringues and marshmallows as she appeared. She had Pluto, Mars, Neptune in Gemini opposition Saturn in Sagittarius which is seriously aggravated. Louis Mountbatten, his favourite uncle, was born in June of 1900 and wasn’t much better astrologically speaking. Charles didn’t have much stability in terms of family – a bunch of whackos and oddballs.

          • The Queen Mother is also pretty much responsible for the way the Queen turned out – good for duty not so great for empathy or motherhood.

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