Neptune Pluto – weaving a spell for good or ill

Charismatic leaders, appalling and otherwise, often have strong Neptune Pluto and/or 8th house energies.  Both Hitler and Charles De Gaulle had Neptune Pluto in Gemini in the 8th. Churchill had Neptune and Pluto, not conjunct in the 8th. Mao Tse Tung was another Neptune Pluto in Gemini conjunction – in his 5th; Stalin had Neptune and Pluto not conjunct in Taurus.

  Oliver Cromwell interestingly had Neptune trine Pluto Uranus trine his Midheaven. Otto von Bismarck who pulled Germany together was a Neptune square Pluto Mercury. Various super-ambitious 20th Century types also have Neptune and Pluto in aspect to their Suns which seems to heighten their drive for success – Angelina Jolie being one, along with Russell Brand, Marissa Mayer and several others.

  Neptune and Pluto has historically been connected with megalomaniac leaders – it oversaw Attila the Hun’s reign of terror in the 5th Century and Tamerlane the Great’s in the 14th century. The late 19th century clearly produced its own horror examples, of Hitler and Mao Tse Tung as well as Cecil Rhodes with his vision of a British colonial super-state in Africa. It’s not all bad being associated with erotic art; scientific advances in such intangibles as electricity, radio and telephone; religious events; and with scandals. 

  Neptune Pluto is a fey, mystical mix of energies, both wonderful and terrifying.  Neptune in its visionary aspect, mixing with Pluto’s power drive, creates a delusional though often devastatingly effective megalomania. In their negative roles both are chillingly inhumane. Neptune puts the dream above reality, writes off human sacrifice as a necessary cost to gain the end. Pluto as the arch controller reduces individual humans to objects, pawns on the chessboard; the puppetmaster reigns supreme.

  Neptune or Pluto in the 8th also often occurs with mega-superstars who appear to have an unconscious ability to project an aura that catches mass consciousness.

  The other recurring factor with leaders is their connections with their country’s 8th house which is where bonding at the deepest level, compulsions, obsessions and primal entanglements are formed.  It is a deep, dark, mysterious realm, often talked of as the house of transformation or sex, death and taxes but it can also encompass crime, bad karma, dirty tricks, revenge, jealousy, and control. What one astrologer called the shadow’s power.  

Hitler’s unsubtle but effective, highly enthusiastic Mars Venus in Taurus was conjunct Germany’s 8th house Pluto, within a degree, so he tapped into a dark, power-hungry energy in the country’s psyche. Churchill’s Pluto fell in the UK 8th with his Neptune/Pluto midpoint conjunct the UK’s 8th house Mars as he roused the UK’s fighting spirit. De Gaulle’s Saturn was in the France 8th and Stalin’s Saturn was in the Russia 1917 8th.

19 thoughts on “Neptune Pluto – weaving a spell for good or ill

  1. As an aside I have Pluto Neptune in astrocartography exactly over where I have lived for 40 years Often wanted to move but it has never worked out and yes a lot of the meanings given here I can say are what I often experience here There are no Neptune Pluto aspects in my chart however Pluto is conjunct my Asc and Neptune is conjunct my IC and Moon

  2. Fascinated by Neptune Pluto interraction. The Conjunctions of 1891-92 appeared to be the engine of most of major characters of most of the 20th century. That Pluto crosses into Neptunes orbit for 20 of it’s 248 yr orbit seems an astronomical tying them together. The last crossing was Feb 6, 1979 to Feb 11, 1999. Paralled Ronald Reagan who ended the FDR paradigm dominance of American politics and began a more socially conservatie pro-business consensus. A rise of the Plutocrats? This coninued through both Bushs, Clinton and even Obama. Seems like there was a similar move to the right in the UK with Margaret Thatcher.

    • An aspect I hadn’t thought of. It would be fascinating to tally the orbital crossings with historical developments. Nice post, Scott.

  3. Mimi, I have some idea what you are going through. Though my husband is bedbound and has suffered from multiple strokes and heart failure.

  4. Reading the above I was interested to see what our infamous PM has, concerning Neptune and Pluto. He has a wide Pluto sextile Neptune. Pluto in the 11th and Neptune in 2nd in Scorpio. As Marjorie has mentioned he likes to spend other people’s money. We are 2.2 trillion in debt with 99% GDP maxed out. Boris is nebulous where money is concerned and doesn’t mind sailing close to the wind. We are slowly being taken into the final abyss by Boris fantasies. 200 million for a Yacht which has not been costed. Whereas, the above charts tapped into Scorpio dark side , enlisting their homeland or perceived homelands. Boris acting like a President is using our money to play with. From memory I think Boris’s Pluto Virgo widely sextiles the U.K. 1801 moon and Neptune our Sun. Boris is slowing destroying our foundation and reputation. I bit off topic, but it’s looks like Boris is a true disruptive leader too.

  5. Mimi, forgive an ignoramus on this subject: but I read a long time ago that astrologers should never attempt to read their own charts. Because they inevitably go for the wrong interpretation.

    • After 65 years, I absolutely know. Of course, you could be right and its all sunshine and roses. I will let you know darling. And, I do have have my chart done professionally. But.
      I also have to take in account the other half’s chart as well. Dementia caring, dependant on me, no family. Bring me sunshine.

  6. Mimi, Pluto will be conjunct my natal Chiron then, two degrees away from natal Mercury, and Neptune will be one degree from natal Mars. Pluto will also be inconjunct natal Pluto and Moon, and Neptune will be inconjunct natal Neptune. I can’t wait either.

    • I think that Pluto on Chiron will end something as I have seen it happen a few times, but it always gives a renewal. You should look at your solar arcs, they definitely tell what’s happening. Pluto to Mercury will empower your speech, depends on natal house. I’ve had so many horrible dragged out aspects, I just give up. Astrology has not empowered me, quite the opposite.It has decked me.
      For someone who did not believe at all in Astrology, I now realise that it was all written a long before I came to be born and I rail at the gods, I really do. The outside planets are the ones to watch.
      That means that amongst other things that evil leaders are made to be here. Can’t get my head around that at all. Good luck to you and remember this, no good deed goes unpunished, quantum physics. Equally, no bad deed gets punished me thinks.

    • I have just had Neptune over my useless caring , non combative Mars in Pisces, interestingly, Boris Chiron there all though 2020. It does make you feel inadequate and tired. But, its a great drawn out time to get a soothing hobby, preferably, art based. Music and film good too. The nodes in Gemini Square are not helping at all either, but they will bugger off by New year.

      • I have a useless Mars too. It’s retrograde and conjunct Neptune – I just don’t seem to have any will for aggro and conflict makes me cry! Good for any kind of musical activity, film/photography and dance though, I believe (probably I’m deluded, it being Neptune) it gives me a certain grace of movement.

        • You’ve made my day saying exactly how Mars Pisces is. Mine is rx as well, past the natal point, but astonishly its made me a lot angrier than I’ve ever been. Made me realise I have been used for my caring, but abused at the same time, so, now, I try to not care. Hard with a Grand water trine Cancer Sun, Mars and Saturn. A completely used, hard work, banging my head on a brick wall grand water trine. Oh well. It’s good to talk eh?
          Oh well.

          • Yes, I do visualisation and mindfulness meditation. I’m a big fan of Thich Nhat Hanh‘s teachings on mindfulness. I have a tendency to tend to bottle up emotion until it explodes and resembles what my sister once described (very aptly considering we’re talking about Mars/Neptune), as an ‘emotional tsunami’.

  7. Another interesting post. I have Pluto at the end of the 8th conjunct the Moon at the cusp of the 9th. Pluto is also square Saturn in Scorpio in the 11th but also the natural 8th. Saturn is conjunct Lilith in the 12th. Pluto is also sextile Neptune in the MC which is square the Sun, Chiron and Mercury. I have a Jupiter-Uranus conjunction in the 8th as well. In addition, Saturn is conjunct my country’s Saturn (Canada) in Scorpio, which is opposite Pluto in Taurus and will soon be rattled by a Uranus opposition. I suppose you could say I have behind-the-scenes political influence in my country even though transiting Neptune and Pluto have made my writings (in French) better known.

  8. Cue ghostly music. I have today been researching the aspects on May 4th 2022, when Neptune and Pluto sextile on 28 degrees. With my IC natal on the midpoint. Can’t wait for that then!

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