The French are infamous for their rudeness especially the Parisians but they seem to have take offence at one of their own claiming her nationality was an excuse for spraying insults in all directions. Actress Eva Green is in court in an overblown luvvie spat about a failed sci-fi movie with both sides blaming the other for the production’s demise. She claimed in High Court yesterday that her ‘Frenchness’ was to blame for abusive messages she sent branding the film bosses ‘weak and stupid’ and the crew ‘s****y peasants from Hampshire.’ She referred to the director as ‘evil’, a ‘devious sociopath’, ‘a liar and a mad man’ and ‘pure vomit’; and the production manager Terry Bird ‘a f****** moron’ and described the men as ‘total a***holes’. She claimed that being in ‘a B S**ty movie’ would have ruined her career.
Born 5 July 1980 10.35 am, Paris (Astrodatabank, birth certificate) she is a Sun Cancer square an 8th house Aries Moon opposition Pluto – intense, controlling, highly emotional. More pointedly, her Mercury in Cancer is sextile both Saturn and Mars in Virgo, square Pluto, trine Uranus and inconjunct Neptune – so she will tend to emphasize her points with vigour. Mercury square Pluto can become obsessed and bitter. Uranus in her 3rd is outspoken, given to blurting out comments without thinking first.
She does have charming Venus in her 10th but it seems to have been swept aside in the heat of the furnace. In the past she has worked with directors like Bertolucci, Tim Burton, Ridley Scott and has been nominated for various roles. You would think by this time she’d have learned that a screaming cuckoo’s nest of chaos is the norm for movie making.
When this movie fell to bits tr Pluto was opposing her Mercury, tr Neptune opposing her Saturn and tr Saturn was beginning to move through her 6th house. Troubled times – and becoming known as a troublesome (and foul mouthed) diva is not always a career-friendly move.
Her fortunes are mixed ahead with a a financially successful Solar Arc Jupiter conjunct Pluto in 18 months from now; but a raft of Neptunian sinkers as well for the next two years and a dramatic change of career direction come 2025 as Uranus moves across her Midheaven.
France itself has an intense 8th house nit-picky Mercury in Virgo sextile a can-be-toxic Mars in Scorpio, inconjunct Pluto and semi-sextile Uranus – so fairly stressed on the communication front as well.
I had to laugh at this much-needed astrological relief! She also has Jupiter on her ASC, which I’d think could also cause her to express herself a bit too frankly and spontaneously. Along with Saturn & Mars, her sentiments would be more of a downer than uplifting, and critically agressive.
Virgo is indeed nit-picky, and your remark about France’s Mercury in Virgo explains and confirms my personal experience: my French being rusty after years in the US, a Frenchman I met couldn’t help but correct me after every sentence. He then tried to make me feel better by explaining- I wouldn’t correct you if your French weren’t so good…
Back to the rudeness, it’s something I came to accept – better cursing and kicking cars (as I’ve seen in Paris) than drawing a gun and shooting to vent frustrations. Nor are the French Parisisns the rudest – some of my worst experiences were in Italy, and in the Vatican !
Good to see a comment about the astrology! I used to work in the music business where people were outspoken and didn’t hesitate to say what they thought in no uncertain terms or language. Wasn’t a problem, in fact could be refreshing. But after leaving and doing doctorate late in life I encountered the rudest person I’ve come across in a work setting in another mature student. Cancer Sun square to Pluto, and Mercury exact square to Pluto. Good aspect for doing research, but unbelievably rude. Always upsetting people around him, and loved to put in complaints and stir up trouble for fellow colleagues.
i lived in France for 2 years “pour une “stage”” in my career in the eighties. As an immigrant for the second time, while I was already fluent in French, I took the trouble to speak French day-to-day. I not only improved my French, but also found “The French” unfailingly polite and kind to me, appreciative that I took the trouble to meet them halfway, and willing to correct-kindly too-any mistakes I made. They also explained the finer points of politesse, which I then followed “pour eviter un faux pas”. I had many French friends. It wasn’t them who were rude to me but the Americans I worked with, endlessly telling me unwanted home truths. While I did not live in Paris, but Alsace, I have visited Paris many times since then, speak French while I am there, and have never seen this “rudeness” everyone is complaining about. I am a POC too. Always an immigrant, one learns to adapt and to meet people halfway. In Paris I enjoy listening to people having lively dates about serious things-it is very much the norm there and I often wish people in the US were as willing to discuss serious issues seriously.
AC: I met an American professional ex-pat living in Paris during my first visit in 2010. He mentioned that while many young americans live in Paris…they refuse to learn French since “it was so difficult” and “not their problem”…the French needed to speak better English! The image and stigma of the Ugly American refuses to die.
I did speak English with a ticket seller at La Tour Eiffel. I asked her if my French was so poor – and she laughed with explaining she met so few Americans who wanted to speak English. The French learn English in the schools but apparently have few opportunities to speak it outsde the classroom.
I did have an acquaintence who was French…we never spoke French since I quickly tired of the nonstop corrections, literally, every other word and sentence. I felt frustrated so we stuck to English.
I worked hard at my French-I moved there with only a French O-Level. I translated Novalis’ poetry from French to English. I shopped in small stores so I would be forced to speak French, not supermarchés, and ate out regularly solo. About 6 months in I noticed I had started dreaming in French-I was really proud of this. I could also sit and listen to convos going on around me and understand what people were saying. One day, I was writing home to my parents and asked myself “What’s the English for “Mardi”? (Tuesday)…. By the time I left, I could have given a seminar in French.
Of the Americans I worked with with-none spoke a word of French-the men never bothered to learn though the women did try to pick up a few words. So many funny stories. Just hopelessly arrogant. None had never been out of the US until this point-they had no clue.
I attended a party at my workplace thrown by a group of Chinese colleagues-all men. These guys had poor English and not a word of French. There, I met their wives for the first time. All very chic and fluent French speakers to a woman as THEY had to deal with the real world around them. It was a salutory experience.
That Linda who left a comment isn’t me. For the record the only French that I have met in France were in Paris and were extremely rude
Outside of France, the ones that I have met were very nice and terrific fun. Love the cuisine though!
@Elisabeth, the way I see it, like it or not, with some background in Cultural History, we simply can’t ignore effects of the cultures people born to, are raised at and live in, consisting of environment, both natural and social, language, education, and so forth. If you’ve been born in one of the oldest states of the World with a central government, there are certain set of rules generations of people living there have either accepted to be part of the community, or rebelled against.
And, it shouldn’t be, I think, hard to see why French would be considered polite, since
little things we consider as “good manners” in Western World, but also increasingly elsewhere, have French origins. First in court, in highly ceremonial way, but after 1789 in mitigated “borgeois” form. And it shouldn’t surprise people that French people in general are expected to know this code by heart, to the point they also know how withdrawing certain niceties is an insult.
On the other hand, it shouldn’t be hard to see why how French people could come across as argumentative. Modern philosophy too has largely French bases, and the debate culture is still well alive on public life and even education. I’ve worked with French people, and while I generally speaking enjoy it, I must say that taking notes in meetings with a strong French presence and not strong enough chair is almost impossible. I’ve been in situations where meetings have gone completely off rails and 2 hours overtime because French participants have had to open their internal debate related to an issue they’ve agreed with everybody.
Language in this ‘civilised’ world of ours is our first way of communicating, so essential we are more than competent in the language of the country we live in. Being born and brought up in a Welsh valley, moving to London at the age of eighteen, the language I had spoken all my life although officially English had a good smattering of Welsh spoken with a very direct approach. To be understood in my new abode I needed to change not just the words, but also my understanding of how it should be said. Tact with a smile can move ‘hills’ in the valleys that would have been considered insincere.
‘Just like Eva Green, I’m French and I’m rude. And no, I don’t care what you think.’ Marie Le Conte
‘Aggressive, rude, constant complaining is what we do; it’s who we are.’
‘While the British enjoy seething passive aggression and cloaking their feelings in euphemism, a good Gallic whinge must be vicious, and ideally come at an inopportune time.’
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/jan/31/just-like-eva-green-im-french-and-im-rude-and-no-i-dont-care-what-you-think
@ marjorie
that is the kind of reaction you get when you speak of “THE” French or “THE” Engish in general. That is a ” general” kind of ” PREDJUDICE.
Just like the Russians eating little children, ha, ha !!
Have a little sense of humour marjorie, it won t hurt you !!!
One last reply and this gets shut down. Go read Marie Le Conte below in the Guardian. Yes the Brits are passive-aggressive, mumble, grumble and do nothing – everyone admits it. And as she says the French, of which she is one, can be gratuitously rude.
There are national characteristics – which doesn’t mean that every last person is exactly the same or that nutjob theories hold good. But getting snowflakey about descriptive comments which are fairly widely accepted is frankly a bore.
I’ve had a good chuckle over all the comments about French, especially Parisian, rudeness and also kindness. I encountered both when I lived there for two years as a Cordon Bleu student in the ’70s.
I was extremely unhappy there and used to say that I felt I practically had to prostitute myself to get a bit of information. My French was poor when I arrived, but it improved considerably while I lived there, learning the language in the kitchen. I struggled with what I perceived often as rudeness. The French I met from outside Paris we’re invariably kinder and more tolerant of my fractured French.
Fast forward 35 or so years. My husband wanted to go to Paris and cruise the Burgundy Canal to celebrate his birthday. I was reluctant because of my past experiences.
Once we arrived my by-then much-better French kicked in and I found it easy to communicate and carry on conversations with total strangers. Now that I wasn’t afraid to open my mouth and talk to anyone I experienced most people as warm and friendly, far different from when I lived there in my 20s. I was delighted to experience the city and country through a different prism.
What I realized most of all was that in my case I really needed to grow up and accept the people and the places for what they were and give myself the opportunity to enjoy them. And, contrary to my expectations, I Ioved returning to Paris and seeing the city and people through more mature eyes. Now I have a far more nuanced view of what I went through as an extremely unhappy person trying to survive in my own in Paris as a student.
I think that’s Lena Headey in the picture.
Thanks. Have changed.
I’ve found that when I, a foreigner makes an effort to be polite and respectful and attempt to speak French in Paris the locals are pleasant, helpful and friendly. I’ve been with people who don’t make any effort and demand someone speak English to them and well, yes the French can be rude.
What a staggering fuss over a silly story the main point of which was to look at the Mercury in Eva Green’s chart. She was the one who brought up her ‘Frenchness’ as an excuse for her insults.
That Parisian French in particular are renowned for such is hardly a secret – as are New Yorkers and Israelis. It may be a national or locational characteristic but is well attested to by visitors as well as locals.
Might I also point out as a question of discussing differences that saying the speaker and who they purportedly represent – in my case the UK – aren’t perfect is a lazy defence of an argument. All nationalities have their upside and downside. The French are amazingly polite about good mornings and such and amazingly bad at customer service.
Having lived in NYC I can certainly vote for their headstrong approach to life. Quite refreshing, actually, compared to the tree-hugging personalities and nonstop chitter-chatter from Seattlites.
After three visit to France, I can say I felt refreshed and invigorated from the way of life – only to become saddened and depressed by the smugness from elitist Seattle populace.
Being born-n-raised East Coast Italian, I receive the same hatred and disdain from the locals as the French appear to receive in this blog. In job interviews, I’m verbally attacked – which only exacerbates the situation.
I’ve only been to France once. It was some years ago, and it was while I had some days off while I was doing a brief tour in Switzerland. I had the opportunity to visit a friend I’d made online who enjoyed my music. He lived (and still does) in Marseille and took me to an open mic in Six-Fours. He even rented a keyboard for me so I could perform.
After staying with him for a couple of days, I met up with another friend I’d made online in Paris who was from Belgium. I had a lovely time with her, and got to chat with a number of Parisians, which was also quite lovely. It is possible that if I’d been there for a couple of decades I might have a different opinion, but the hospitality, kindness, and generosity I was shown by the French was far beyond anything I’d experienced here in the States. I was also friends/friendly with a number of French expats here who I always found to be warm, jovial, and passionate.
The Swiss folks I met (primarily Swiss German) were also extremely hospitable. To this day, I have yet to experience the level of warmth and kindness that these Swiss and French folks showed to a very unknown artist from the US.
Just my humble opinion.
Moon astrocartography running through France so I love french people – all those qualities of siamese cats <3.
But latterly, those aged 30-45 can be awful – lying to advantage, to save face, to keep up appearances, light fingered, and choosing not to see nuances of differences – the ends justify the means, what I want have one way or another. Honestly shocking.
I'm hoping pluto into aquarius will lighten the whole dynamic, and pisces into saturn will give an echappe belle 🙂
My english vulgarity is alchemised as far as possible by daily contact with the quality of those many superlative french nationals who don't feel they are superior beings but live with immense, awareness, integrity, acquis, humour, and subtlety. French kinesiologists are the best in the world: very proud to have learned to be a kinesio here.
saturn into pisces (sorry) 🙂
Elated!
Met a friend in town for a coffee and at the café we ran into a woman who works with shiatsu and homeopathy. We got chatting and she said she had been thinking of me because she was going to see a donkey she had seen last year and the year before who 3 years ago began to not be able to get up in the mornings. They attach his halter to the car and pull him up that way.
Immediately asked if I could go and when, and she said in half an hour, so we all three went (the third woman is a strong reiki healer and shepherdess by trade. She has also worked with drug addicts and the mentally ill so is very useful (holistically).
We worked all three simultaneously.
I asked to work on the priority for him, in a way that really served him.
Under the throat upwards on the out breath
depression
an object of work in the geneaology. thankless, and not seen (I am respected by others)
needing to be seen (I see you, I love you)
He had a wound on the right hip that was linked to the left hind hoof, awareness halted, not assimilating his food properly, not evacuating toxins properly, nor his body functoning properly. (bach cherry plum and trace a figure of eight from the far left at the bottom tracing up to the far right at the top (nail of the hoof) to restart the energy flows)
Face to face with death. I asked his person about this and she said before he came to them 20 years ago he had been up on the mountain heights with two other donkeys who had eaten yew and died.
he had survivor’s guilt, he judged that the guy should have prevented the accident of his friends eating yew. result: not assimilating properly, semi poisoned by not eliminating properly, arrested awareness all round, and from 3 years ago to the point he no longer wanted to live. (working with the hyoid bone (stressed from right to left) and the throat with nasturtium on the out breath. going forward two years with nasturtium and anchoring the positive phrases and energy circulating freely: I am seen, I am eased, I take up my life again etc etc 2 years ahead with nasturtium, and coming back down with nasturtium so that from every angle he is helped by nasturtium going forward
He has punished himself for 20 years and it may take 2 years for him to be fully well, but he is ok here on out to take up his best chances
He is such a lovely donkey
Pam, I just love that there are people like you on this planet!
Yes it was a privilege to be part of – au service <3
But thank you – we had such good feedback this morning: Mme Shiatsu Homeopathy spoke of a 3 way perfection (I was stoked) – what a precise and wide toolbox kinesiology brings to the table – and the more the word is out there the more people have this possibility
(a kinesiology séance archived my flashbacks – I was amazed (even understanding that each effort goes towards the whole result. Same with our friend yesterday. I had no knowledge of that night that arrested everything for him, just asked to work for his priority). Mme Shiatsu/homeopathy told me several years ago that animals have so few people who can ease/voice things that she felt obliged to put herself out there for any animal she can (her metier is liberty work with horses and clowning).
Mme Reiki is solid too. Undoubtedly she grounded and 'held' the ongoing balance of the work yesterday. But the day goes to our friend who was suspended for 2 decades (le froid, la marche, couché, face à la morte…) and lives again
(I've done the minimum 600 hours of training).
(learning all the time – for example yesterday frozen emotions are often lodged in a muscle or a place in the body, I hadn’t understood the scale of the possibility of the whole being being frozen – though of course it is ‘obvious’)
And shock. He was shocked, and stayed shocked
thank you Anthea
This is very important work that you are a part of and all power and strength to you and your talented companions. These abilities should be promoted and discussed. I have no such capabilities but I do use a pendulum and so far have had some success with fine tuning health treatments for my 19 year old cat. I had no idea there is so much more to explore!
Sounds like you find your way alright 🙂
cranio sacral osteo too. Susun weeds herbals, healing with wholefoods by paul pitchford, l’argile qui guérit Raymond dextreit (a synopsis of his work in our earth our cure), women who run with the wolves
I guess this experience as a break through for me/us all too
Wishing you all the best (wishing us all all the best) 🙂
Madame Marjorie,
As a French from Paris, living in Vienna since the 90s’, I am stunned and mostly disappointed about your last comments. I have travelled a lot and have been often surprised about the exagerated reputation of the “Frenchs” as polite and elegant. I often felt obliged to reply that we are all different in our temperaments all around the Earth, and can assure you that the British people is not a brillant example of good behaviour.
Regarding your stay in France, how could you endure people that you charaterize as rude for 20 years, and how did you manage to survive there with such a weak level of French?
Do such generalizations help us accepting and appreciating each other? What is your purpose of studdying astrology?
(I guess my worry is if what we are seeing is the decline and fall of our cultures, there seem to be so many pointers? Wishing you a oranais from home 🙂 (if you like them))
add on :
as for eva green.
It is just an actress feeling ” important” and having a tantrum. So many like her…. Nothing particularly french in that kind of behaviour i am afraid
Wikipedia has her birthdate as 6th.
Not sure it changes any of the houses although the Aries moon probably moves out of orb of the sun and pluto; but maybe a wide orb for a quincunx with Saturn and Uranus.
An 8th house moon does seem apt for her. She has a very dark energy to the screen.
Glad to hear you lived in France for 20 years. So you will know about V republic chart. Also, people can’t have been too rude, if you stayed that long? Or perhaps you like rudeness? ( I will not oblige)
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/life/eva-green-why-had-rude-french-people/
For France, the V republic chart is often used, not the revolution chart. A lot of water under the bridge…
I object to your characterization of French people. I was surprised to read this.
Seriously? I lived in France for 20 years.
Do British people ever contemplate the possibility that they too can sometimes be rude to the eyes of other people? Every culture has its sensibilities and when living/working abroad you are bound to bump into behaviour that you perceive as rude, just because it is different. Believe it or not, it happened to me (Dutch) when living & working in the UK; I was seriously offended by some attitudes — but you need to keep in mind that it is often unintended and perceived rudeness is largely culturally determined.
Sure. The English are arrogant and the Scots far too blunt. I am happy for people to tell it the way it is. What I won’t do is pussy foot around when it is perfectly screamingly obvious and attested to by myriads of people.
Haha! Very funny. I lived in France for a while too and I agree with Marjorie’s assessment. The French are very good at handing it out but not so good at taking it.
@SuHu, I worked with a French woman with Sun/Mercury in Cancer square Pluto in Libra earlier in the sign. Our mutual manager was absolutely terrified of her. I stayed on her good side, as did another Sun Libra. I think it might have been our Suns are at a 3 degree orb from France’s Venus (different sides), I think it might be that we just let certain remarks flow over our egos. 😀
One perhaps ought not to generalise. Substitute ‘black people’ for what Marjorie said about French people, and you will see the problem. ‘The French are infamous for their rudeness’. ‘Black people are infamous for their rudeness’. Yes? I understand that there is some turmoil at the moment, with Brexit not turning out to be the nirvana it was predicted to be, but there is no need to spread hate or dismissive speech. I know ‘if in doubt blame the French’ but you know, it has stopped to amuse. I suggest this thread be deleted or focussed clearly and singly on Eva Green, if indeed she warrants that much attention.
I think you rather made SuHu’s point.
The French reputation for rudeness, especially in Paris predates Brexit by forever so petty point scoring won’t wash.
Also it was Eva green who brought up the Frenchness thing.
I won’t delete it but I do suggest you’ve said your piece and should leave it.
@Petunia, it’s not “racists” or “xenophobe” to point out that the there are certain cultural norms accepted in communication. Subgroups can also share styles. For instance, British Black communities certainly don’t sound or communicate the way American Black communities do, and then, London West African Black community has a very different style of communication from say, Northern communities with mostly Carribbean heritage that have been in the country for longer.
It’s absolutely possible to observe these differences without any “supremist” POW.
Wasn’t there TV advert where she was featured saying, “I don’t do popular choices”,?
I can see Eva Green re-making herself by going more continental than Hollywood. I can see her finding success in France much like Kristin Scott Thomas, who combines work in French films with whatever else takes her fancy.
Thanks Marjorie. Interesting to read what you wrote about Eva’s mother, Marlene Jobert.
“She’ll be volatile with that Moon Mars, argumentative at home; plus the emphasised 4th house Pluto making her not the easiest of people to live with.”
Another example of the apple not falling far from the tree perhaps?
@ marjorie
Just can t resist it. Yes marjorie, Paris has a very bad reputation of rudeness, also among French. But Paris is not ” France.” as the saying goes also in France. It is just Paris.
Politeness as rudeness differs from place to place in France and you cannot generalize.
One thing is certain though, is that many French are fed up with, in some area , a high concentration of english speakers who don t master any french or make any effort to speak french. And some of them have been indeed living in France for 20 years or more.The ” politeness” would be to make some effort and not to expect French to speak english in their own country
In France, do as the French and speak the language. Then, you will be welcome and well treated