Civil Wars, messy splits – no clear signs ahead

The classic Civil War break-up signature is Pluto conjunct  Sun which was in place when the USSR split (along with the triple conjunction in Capricorn). And for the Syria 2015 civil war with Pluto moving to conjunct their Capricorn Sun with Uranus square. But the USA had similar in the 1920s, as did the UK in the last decade and they both remained intact.

  When India underwent the messy and murderous partition in 1947 tr Neptune was square the Unified India 1871 Sun and on the Ascendant; with the brutal Mars opposition Pluto square Uranus having moved by Solar Arc to collide with the Neptune which was a fair description of the slaughter that followed.

 The English Civil War of 1642 isn’t that easy to pin on any of the old England charts in any starkly obvious way – on the 1066 chart there was a Solar Arc Mars in a brutal opposition to the England Pluto and some activity around the Saturn Jupiter conjunction but nothing that would have leapt out as a major rupture.

  The American Civil War (1861 to 1865) broke out on a Uranus Return in the 1776 chart with tr Pluto square the Leo North Node. Again nothing too indicative. Though it does make sense on the USA First President chart, 30 April 1789 12.45pm, New York, with tr Pluto moving to conjunct the Taurus Sun, having in the build-up been in the high-tension, disruptive square to the Uranus.

   My slight sense with the USA and the UK is that the North Node is involved when there are major challenges. 9/11 occurred with tr Neptune in opposition to and undermining the USA ‘Leadership’ Leo North Node as American pride was badly dented.  The UK 1801 chart had the 7th house uncooperative, ‘independent’ Aries Node triggered over Brexit.  

  Where the USA has slightly similar influences will be for the next Uranus Return in 2027/28 when coincidentally tr Pluto in Aquarius will be square the 1776 North Node also in 2027/28.

  Tr Pluto into Aquarius will be putting pressure on the USA First President chart from 2023 onwards as it opposes the Uranus for two years and then moves on to square the Taurus Sun in 2029/2030. By 2032 tr Neptune in Aries will meet the undermining square to the 1776 USA Cancer Sun.

  None of this means a rerun of the 1861 Civil War – but the USA Pluto Return will take its toll.

Previous times of tr Pluto in hard aspect to the USA Pluto Mercury saw bitter anti-slavery fights under a Democratic President, 1845 to 1851; the Great Depression, 1933 to 1938, Roosevelt’s New Deal and J. Edgar Hoover in the FBI; Reagan was elected on tr Pluto square the USA Mercury in 1981 and during his term, there were swingeing tax cuts leading to a soaring budget deficit and high unemployment, a recession and his attempted assassination.

Usually it takes more than one influence to catapult a country into civil breakdown. The USSR break up happened at the time of the triple conjunction in Capricorn. The 1848/1850s upheavals all over Europe and elsewhere also occurred on a triple conjunction of Uranus Pluto Saturn in Aries, then moving together into Taurus, so quite a whammy.  Indian partition happened around the bleak Saturn Pluto in Leo; the Syrian Civil War on Uranus square Pluto. There is nothing too similar late this decade.

 For what it is worth – and I do so reluctantly since the American obsession with elections becomes wearisome – the 2029 Inauguration looks the most troubled with a Sun Pluto conjunction and Pluto trine Uranus trine Mars and Sun Pluto square Saturn. But it is nothing like as stressed or destructive as the 1861 pre-Civil War Inauguration which had a Mars Pluto conjunction in Taurus trine Saturn with Saturn square Uranus.  

From a previous post on Pluto Returns:

What goes up must come down. In the rollercoaster of history empires and superpowers rise and ultimately fall, sometimes to rise again, sometimes not. Nothing lasts for ever. Spain, France and England/Britain once had empires of unimaginable size – and now they don’t. But they still exist and in varying ways attempt to reconcile themselves to the loss of their former status. Pluto Returns occurring roughly every 250 years can be one indicator of rises and falls. The USA is moving into its First Return in 2022/23. Below are examples from countries which have old enough charts to have experienced Pluto Returns. Thanks to Hugh for a detailed looked at the Roman Empire’s turbulent history over many centuries through the lens of its Pluto Returns. 

England 11 May 973 JC AD chart – Pluto 27 Leo. Pluto Returns in 1956; 1709/10; 1463/64; and 1217/18.  The Pluto Return of 1709/10 propelled the British Empire into existence after the Act of Union with Scotland in 1707 – at its height it was the largest empire in history. The Suez Crisis in 1956 was the consummate humiliation for Great Britain, signalling its fall from world super-power with the empire crumbling fast in the years before and after.

Spain 19 January 1479 JC – Pluto 1 Libra. The Spanish Empire was one of the largest empires in history. From the late 15th century to the early 19th, Spain controlled vast overseas territories. One of the superpowers of the 16th and 17th centuries, it was known as “the empire on which the sun never sets” and reached its maximum extent in the 18th century. It moved through its first Pluto Return around 1724; and began a slow decline at a Pluto half Return in the 19th Century. The most recent Pluto Return around 1972 saw the dictator Franco gradually relinquishing power, nominating a monarch as successor and handing over the Prime Ministership by 1973.

France 19 August 843 JC – Pluto 29 Pisces. Previous Pluto Returns: 1577, 1332, 1088. Around the second Pluto Return in 1337 and the start of the Hundred Years War, France was at the height of its mediaeval glory. The most recent Pluto Return in 1821 saw the death of Napoleon on the exact aspect and the government of France moved into instability thereafter, though the Second French Colonial Empire built up post-1830 became one of the largest empires in history.

Russia 28 March 1462 JC – Pluto 22 Leo. Previous Return 1708/9. The most recent Pluto Return was exact when Stalin died in early 1953. Previous Pluto Return was 1706.

Switzerland 26 May 1231 JC – most recent Pluto Return joined the Council of Europe. Before that 1726.

Austria 18 October 1221 JC – was angling to join the EEC on the most recent Pluto Return, managed it 6 years later. Before that 1714, 1468.

Scotland March 25 1005 JC – the second Pluto Return in 1745 saw the Jacobite Rebellion crushed by the English with savage repercussions. The next Pluto Return in 1991/2 saw Alex Salmond take over leadership of the Scottish National Party which led later to its rise to power. The Pluto Return first was 1252.

Sweden 1523 – Pluto 14 Capricorn. In the 17th Century Sweden became a great power but had started to lose land and status fifty years before the next Pluto Return in 1768/9. The latest Pluto return of 2015/16 was during European refugee crisis.

Thanks to Hugh for the Roman Empire ups and downs of Pluto:

Rome – the traditional founding date is 753 BCE – Pluto 17 Leo.

The first Pluto Return in 509 BCE the Roman Republic was founded.

The Second Pluto Return coincided with the start of the Punic Wars circa 269 BCE.

The Third Pluto Return oversaw the second settlement of the Augustan Principate around 23 BCE.

The Fourth Pluto Return – 220s CE – the end of the Severan dynasty and the beginning of the 3rd Century Crisis of the Roman Empire which saw near constant civil wars.

The Fifth Pluto Return – 470 CE which saw the end of the Western Empire.

The Sixth Pluto Return – 717-718 CE oversaw the failed Second Arab Siege of Constantinople in (one of the most important events in European History).

9th Pluto Return – 1204 – the Sack of Constantinople by Latin armies in 1204 (an event that fatally weakened the Byzantine world).

10th Pluto Return  – 1453 CE when the former Christian capital Constantinople fell to the Ottomans.

Hugh: “I find that a remarkable set of repeated major turning points stretching over 2000 years I would say those run of events indicate that Pluto Returns played a not insignificant role in the rise and fall of the Roman Empire.”

11 thoughts on “Civil Wars, messy splits – no clear signs ahead

  1. The pending Supreme Court decision in the US, granting more crucial powers to the states as a means to outlaw abortion (and open the door to practically reverse any law they deem not grounded in the Constitution), makes me believe that, even if there isn’t an actual division of the country, there will be one de facto, as residents will increasingly choose to move into a different state that supports their sociopolitical beliefs – especially from red to blue. Already I find that I may have to reevaluate my retirement; I had already been concerned that medical insurance coverage, vital in older years, might not be as good in the purple state I was considering moving to; if, moreover, it enacts reactionary laws regulating our daily lives, it will be unlivable, and I am now considering that I may have to remain in a more expensive fully Democratic state, such as my current one (the better quality of life makes them generally more desirable and thus lead to a higher cost of living). Others have indicated online that they are already planning similar moves (out of their current state of residence).

    • Here here! I totally understand and considering similar steps. I think that blue states will simply form some sort of coalition similar to what was going on during Covid 2020 when New York, New Jersey and four other Northeastern states formed a working group to coordinate plans to reopen parts of the economy which was led by NY Gov. Andrew Cuomo. At the time PA Gov. Tom Wolf said “I think this regional compact is premised on the idea that you’re not going to have a healthy economy if you have an unhealthy population, so we’ve got to do both”. As states rights are being emphasized by the court, I see this regional compact as a real possibility especially as their voters become more and more outraged about minority rule and blue states financial support of many of these red states simply becomes unsustainable politically.

  2. Ireland’s future looks interesting, taking into account today’s “historic” Northern Ireland local election results for Sinn Fein. Pluto’s path is involved. In May 2020 Marjorie wrote:

    “With the tr Saturn Jupiter conjunction this December moving to conjunct the Midheaven which will set the region on a new path. It won’t be easy since tr Pluto is following behind to move into the 10th from 2023 onwards (start time being accurate) which suggests a radical rethink of direction and purpose.”

    And here we are. Perhaps a united Ireland will eventually be the result. What that might mean for the “united” kingdom is hard to say. I haven’t checked to see how this might resonate with Cromwell and the English Civil War, but the ghosts of Oliver’s Army must surely be stirring uneasily in their sleep this evening.

  3. Thank you for this. Re: 2029 inauguration … very worrisome indeed! … I reread your March 19, 2022 post on FL Gov. Ron deSantis… “He will pick up the upbeat, super-confident tr Pluto opposition his Jupiter in March 2024, repeating June/July and across the Inauguration in 2025” and “He’s also getting a major triumph in 2029 when his Solar Arc Jupiter is conjunct his Sun, which may be connected to electoral successes or other events in his life.” DeSantis is such an divisive figure and looking to fill Trump’s presidential shoes. Looks as though by then, blue states in the North East and West, who by en large are financing Southern states like KY, AL, MS, LA, SC etc., may finally have had enough of minority rule and paying their bills. It’s just not sustainable given the polarization.

    • —For what it is worth – and I do so reluctantly since the American obsession with elections becomes wearisome… —
      Our obsession with US elections is because we are always stuck in the “all or nothing” way of being governed, there is virtually no incentive for compromise. Bipartisanship
      hasn’t never the norm throughout U.S. history with a few exceptions because tribalism and the filibuster are used as a weapons of mass obstruction, therefore the system simply doesn’t work.

      • My thoughts exactly, Anita. We are stuck with the president for 4 years, with recent Republican presidents (Bush, Trump) having lost the popular vote but only in because of the bizarre form of electoral college elections that we have — and then them insisting they have a mandate of the people. So governed by the minority. Also with Republicans in the Senate publicly stating their mission is to only obstruct and try to prevent the Dem president from winning the next election (speaking of all about elections only). Nevermind the gerryrigging to prevent Democrat voters from voting so they can retain their minority power. It takes an enormous Democratic turnout to have more than enough to win both the popular and electoral votes. Thus our obsession, without which we fall under authoritarian right-wing rule. Hoping the Pluto Return upends some of this, and Pluto in Aquarius, for a more egalitarian society. And getting Neptune out of Pisces where the use of misinformation has flourishing also in service to mainly the extremists on the right.

        • Agreed, I hope so, but while many already knew this, now the entire country has officially discovered that the 3rd branch is just as political as the other two, with whatever the consequences will be. So that cat is out of the bag until the next thing that comes along. We’re looking at a never ending replay of waves of voter fatigue setting in until we reach the unavoidable pressure-cooker status again. Maybe that will come in 2029.

  4. Thanks for this Marjorie.

    I am just watching the local election results (UK) as they come in. Of immediate significance is that London Boroughs are turning Labour whilst in the rest of the country the ‘Red Wall’ is holding up ie there are relatively few Conservative losses.

    It almost seems as if there is a ‘civil war’ between London (plus the South East) and the rest of the country – or at least a schism. Jessica Adams has already forecast a similar schism between New York and surrounding states and the rest of the USA. It is interesting, to me at least, that the centres of power (London and New York) should be so dissociated from the rest of the respective nations.

    Some political reporters have picked up on the fact that 55% of London is now non-white. But does ‘diversity’ bring socialism in it’s wake? And has the largely indigenous white population behind the ‘Red Wall’ retained support for the Tories because it feels threatened by wide scale diversity? Or are such topics taboo?

    • I hear on the US news too that the vote counting in the Stormont Assembly election is now underway in No. Ireland and voter turn out was around 54%.

      • The turn out has averaged about 25% in my neck o’ t’ woods (Yorkshire and Humber). I think the Tories and disillusioned Labour voters have stayed at home. General Elections usually have a turnout of around 70% so, given the significance of the Stormont Assembly, 54% seems quite low.

        Humber turned Lib Dem – a gain from Labour. It was a major Brexit area so it seems all has been forgotten and forgiven on that score.

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