UK Politics – the Labour rose wins the day ++ Nigel Farage

50 thoughts on “UK Politics – the Labour rose wins the day ++ Nigel Farage”

1. Yes the Tory membership no longer gets to pick its candidate successfully…question is who is doing the selection??

   • Tory MPs, who have to balance who would appeal to the Tory membership AND to the wider electorate.

     • Big mistake with Sunak then!

2. Thanks Marjorie. As you say, the way ahead doesn’t look very clear or successful. But in present times, leadership and government will not be easy for anyone – quite a Saturnian burden for any PM to take on.

   I noticed that Sunak’s PM chart here has connections with the All Party Coalition of 10th May, 1940. This followed a series of National Governments from 1931 onwards, which featured MPs from all parties throughout the Great Depression. Hugh will know much more about this than me!

   Mars 25 Gemini for both charts.
   Uranus 21 Taurus in 1940, 17 Taurus for Sunak
   Neptune 22 Virgo in 1940, 23 Pisces for Sunak
   Pluto 0 Leo in 1940, 26 Capricorn for Sunak

   Moon’s Nodes were 19 Libra, close to the Sunak PM Mercury at 22 Libra, the recent eclipse and the Aries one next spring. I think those Cardinal degrees may be sensitive – they appear when the first National Government was formed 24 August 1931 with Pluto 21 Cancer and Uranus 19 Aries, Saturn 17 Capricorn….all pressing on the UK Cancer Moon – perhaps showing the stress on the UK population as a whole. The Tories own Tamworth Manifesto itself has Saturn 21 Libra square Mars at 17 Cancer.

   1940 also crops up for Keir Starmer’s leadership chart:

   Saturn was 6 Taurus in May 1940, conjunct Mercury 5 Taurus. These align with Keir Starmer’s Leadership chart Uranus, while the Nodes in that chart align with 1940’s Venus at 2 Cancer.

   Anyway, I haven’t got any further than this. But possibly we’re looking at some kind of modest Labour majority or even a coalition after the next election? The Pluto opposing itself in 1940 marker could also suggest the feelings many have of a Uniparty? Power located in the signs of Leo and Aquarius, the heart and self versus the collective?

   • Jane, does the 2010 Tory/Lib Dem Coalition also resonate with this?

     • Hi Zita – sorry late reply, my wi-fi went woo hoo today! I did look at the Coalition of 2010. It’s interesting to see a non exact Jupiter/Uranus conjunction there in Pisces 25 and 29. They oppose Saturn in Virgo, 28. So there’s both Saturn and Jupiter, which I tend to think of as government and politics, being stirred up by Uranus. For the wartime coalition, there’s Neptune 22 Virgo square Mars 25 Gemini. 25 Gemini crops up again for the 4 Seat majority for Labour in 1964, as the degree of the Nodes. That win came after a long period of Tory government, plus scandals beforehand, so I thought might be relevant.

       Wartime Jupiter in warrior Aries, 28, was then sextile 2010’s Neptune at 28 Aquarius. The war Nodes were 19 Libra, Coalition 2010 13 Capricorn, UK ‘natal’ Nodes 13 Aries/Libra. So some pattern going on there for the UK I think.

       If you look at the 1997 Labour landslide, the Nodes were 27 Virgo/Pisces. They’ll be there in Pisces at that degree in February-April 2025. Once again Neptune is in a late degree, 29 Capricorn then, where Pluto is hanging about now. Also Neptune was conjunct the 1066 Venus, Uranus conjunct the 1066 Mars in Aquarius, and Pluto 4 Sagittarius square 1066 Pluto 3 Pisces, and UK Pluto as well. The Neptune/Venus link made me think of all the music that was around then, in such a very different world from the one we’re seeing now. That burst of creativity came before the election in 97, so something was already in the air.

       I feel that the prevailing atmosphere is often one of tired, angry, or disillusioned people. The pandemic and its restrictions has caused a change in everyone, one way or another. That will fade for most of us, but it may continue to restrict turnout at elections in the near-ish future perhaps. That may alter the result in some way.

       • Thank you very much Jane for your detailed reply. I’m not competent enough to comment on the astrology, although I broke it all down to absorb the patterns! I asked because there seems to be something portentous in the air. I feel as though we’re waiting, but for what? I suppose we’ll just have to wait to see.

         • Gnarly Dude pointed out, in a response in another post, that Uranus is at almost exactly the same degree as the start of WWII.

           That should be portentous.

           It is also two Uranus Returns away from the run-up to the start of the US Civil War (the precise Uranus Return of that event will be in 2029).

           2025 will also be a Neptune return of that event.

           Oh, the US, that most happy of nations, being hit by three returns of the outer planets within a period of 6-7 years.

3. Just to remind everyone, that it was David Cameron who is responsible for Brexit. Nigel Farage of course campaigned for it. But if you are going to blame someone, shouldn’t it be the one who in his arrogance couldn’t bring himself to believe that the British electorate would dare to vote against leaving the EU. Because if he had for one moment thought it would happen would never have brought about the referendum in the first place.

   • I agree, the blame lies solely with David Cameron and the Tories. But politics is all about optics and perception. Farage’s name will always be synonymous with Brexit despite the fact that it was a Pro-EU PM responsible for throwing the country in this political mess.

     But tories have a knack for escaping any blame. As I mentioned earlier they nick the policies from others, win on those policies then let someone else take the blame if things go wrong.

     • I don’t know. Blair seems pretty good at dodging the blame, to the point that he is now eminence grise, power behind the throne, financing all their media training, organisation and so on. And Labour are the ones, at the end of their 13 years, who left a note saying good luck, there’s no money left. The only difference seems to be one of style and now they’re all going managerial, there’s not much of that either.

   • Thanks LInda, just to remind you, David Cameron went to the EU to and was sent home with his tail between his legs, and foisted responsibility for the mess onto to the electorate, so he could blame them for the result. He did not have the intelligence to foresee the outcome of his actions.

     • I never liked nor understood David Cameron’s chart – all that superficial Libra Leo smarm and charm never seemed quite real. What did he do with his status-quo-upender Uranus Pluto conjunction in his 12th? It clearly was out of his conscious control and was fated to cause chaos down the line whether he meant it or not. Also his North Node in Taurus in the 8th – apart from all the financial shenanigans – may have been a contributing factor.

       • Interesting. From the beginning he seemed elusive, in a different way to Blair. I thought we won’t know who this man is until he’s gone. Now we do. The referendum shows all his flaws, expediency, short termism, carelessness, complacency, etc etc. Referenda are really tricky, necessitating very careful wording, specific campaigns, and above all clarity. From what I’ve read about the recent Australian vote, the population seem to have been presented with ‘this is a good thing, trust us afterwards’. Cameron didn’t treat ours seriously, with the care and thought required, but then he isn’t a serious man. A skimmer.

       • Cameron was running scared of UKIP and the brexit wing of the Tory party. He promised a referendum to win power at the election and also to save the Tory party. Typical privileged person who has always been able to afford to gamble in life and instilled with confidence above their abilities.

         The consequences for the country were far down his list of priorities

   • Mark D’Arcy, the BBC parliamentary correspondent for 20+ years, had said that if the Brexiteers wanted to put up statues to those who brought Brexit about, it would be Tony Wright, who wrote the report that empowered committees and backbench MPs to debate matters that the government did not want debated, and John Bercow.

     The former speaker, who played fast and loose with his interpretations of the rules, allowed a Conservative ERG/Eurosceptic motion demanding an EU referendum, in addition to the usual opposition motion, to the Queen’s Speech in 2013. At the time, he must have thought that it was fun to mildly embarrass Cameron. Little did he realise where that would lead to, however much he would try to stop it.

     He was definitely one of those Pluto-in-Capricorn sledgehammers that destroyed but did not rebuild.

     It was after that 2013 motion that Cameron was forced by the ERG, enabled and empowered by Speaker Bercow, to put the referendum in the Conservative Party manifesto.

     Keep in mind that an in/out EU referendum was also favoured by the Lib-Dems to settle the EU question once and for all.

     Cameron may have been the gunner responsible for the gun, but the fuse was lit by Bercow, forcing Cameron to aim and fire quickly.

     • Here’s the link to the article.

       https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-parliaments-38402140

   • I blame Boris Johnson. It was he who seized upon Brexit as a campaigning idea for purely selfish, career-boosting reasons. And people were fooled by his jovial persona.

4. I hope Pluto in Aquarius could represent a new vision of representation in politics for the people.Im my world (labour heartlands) Labour lost it when they stopped abandoned thier key voters like thier Scottish ones and SNP gained.I know Brexit was going to be voted for and yet politicians and the media didn’t.Like Scotland with the tories we have long memories where labour are concerned and Starmer is hugely unpopular in my own working class community.
   Farage in my community is popular because he is straight talking and says what he thinks even if it upsets.It baffles me why people dont realise why he is.For every poll out there is another one saying the opposite.
   People are more interested in finding an nhs dentist, nhs doctor, affording food, a decent job they can get to, being able to heat thier home if they are lucky enough to have one, and getting thier children in a half decent schools and not dragged into knife gang crime or becoming county lined and being safe from grooming gangs and want to live long enough to see their grandchildren born. Unfortunately for the self appointed morally superior woke people out there both labour and conservatives have not been able to deliver any of this or Brexit which was promised so which millionaire liar do we vote for?

5. Stop Stop Stop You are all talking a lot of rubbish ! Let’s get back to the astrology

   • That’s a bit uncalled for. People are entitled to their opinion. The posting by snew is only speaking words of truth as to the parlous state of the U.K. at the moment. A lot of people on this site post non-astrological things. Live and let live.

   • Not all are able to give an astrological view point but to call a comment or comments a lot of rubbish is insulting and uncalled for.

   • You can’t detach astrological insights with political commentary. It’s part of holistic discussion. This makes Marjorie’s platform interesting and thought provoking to even astrology novices like me.

     You are free not to read the comments.

6. The Canadian Conservative Party were reduced from 156 seats (and being the governing party) in the Canadian House of Commons to just 2 seats in the 1993 Canadian parliamentary elections (held on October 25, 1993).

   The Conservative Party of Canada was formed with Canadian confederation in 1867, but changed its name to the Progressive Conservatives on December 10, 1942. This party was formally dissolved on December 7, 2003, according to Wikipedia, as it was formally merged with (wait for it) the Reform Party to form the cirrent Conservative Party of Canada.

   (all dates above from Wikipedia)

   Marjorie, Jane and Hugh, could you do a comparative astrological analysis of whether the UK Conservative Party is on a similar trajectory of being almost wiped out at the national level (possibly down to single or double digits in the UK House of Commons)?

7. @Sarah_K, I would argue expecting politicians to have a “vision” and evoke strong feelings is precisely the problem in a world where legislation should answer to concrete issues. For instance, here in Finland, we currently have a coalition government with center right Coalition Party, where main politicians have almost childlike believe in market economy, and markets fixing everything, and populist Finns party, who essentially hate immigrants, and that’s it. Their agenda is basically to “make people work for their living” instead of “relying” on social security. But what’s in fact happening is that they are making accepting part time jobs much less lucrative to certain brackets that can’t work full time, such as students, people with disabilities, parents of small children. And by publicly telling that immigrants are welcome, but only if working, they are creating a hostile environment that’s driving away also the people businesses and public entities, especially healthcare, desperately need. Therefore, while they would never name names, many business leaders are now referring to policies set by the last government, the most “leftist” here in decades, as ones to keep. This is because policies set were, above all, pragmatic, because there still was quite a wide gap between the most economically left wing and most economically right wing coalition members.

8. In this country, we have a Uniparty which fools people into either voting for a make believe ‘red’ faction or a fake ‘blue’ faction of the same party, the gullible being conned into thinking they have actually voted for a distinct choice.

   Absolutely make no mistake about it: There are absolutely no meaningful ideological, policy or political differences between the Tories and Labour whatsoever. I really cannot understand the ‘excitement’.

   • Indeed, Jonathan whichever way you look at it – the Tory ideology wins. Starmer recognises his only way to gain power is by winning over Tory voters by offering them essentially the same stuff.

     It’s kind of noteworthy that Labour suffered a massive election defeat in 1983 which confirmed the Thatcher era just as the Saturn-Pluto conjunction took place in Libra and then another worst in Dec 2019 just before the end of that period with the following Saturn-Pluto conjunction in Capricorn a few weeks later.

     That the last Labour Government (1997-2010) happens to fit exactly with Neptune in Aquarius could be construed as people having the wool pulled over their eyes that they were genuinely voting for a Labour party rather than Blair’s Tory-lite version.

     This consolidation into a political Uniparty seems like another aspect of how Pluto in Capricorn has created monopolies across many sectors of the business world including media and sport. A plutocracy is a state or society governed by the wealthy and that’s exactly where we are.

     • Indeed. And not forgetting the primary plutocrats, the media barons, such as Murdoch. The craven genuflection of our politicians towards foreign domiciled, no tax paying owners of Mail, Times etc is a sight to behold. The billionaire class rule so much, more generally, in our societies, literally buying what they want from the comically useless drones purportedly in charge. Sunak networking his wee socks off to benefit his family and pals while the going is good and then, whooosh, gone to reap the benefits from sunny, beckoning California. This is what we have come to.

   • sorry Jonathan, I don’t think blanket statements like this reflect the reality of the current political situation in the UK, no matter how frustrated you are. It’s clear the whole political establishment has lurched further right – including Labour. However the current Conservative party is forever reaching for new, far right, liberalist populist approaches which have never been seen in UK government before and are doing serious damage to the country. they are going beyond the realm of sense, evidence, data or advice, and becoming Trumpian. These are not views or policies which are held by the Labour Party. compare approach on climate change and clean energy, for example. There are clear differences.

     I share your frustration in Starmer but I think he is the best we have at the moment.

   • It is worth reflecting that
     (a) most of Europe is lurching rightwards. The EP elections this year will be very interesting.
     (b) Only three Labour Prime Ministers (Attlee, Wilson and Blair) have won elections in the UK, and they have all been very moderate and centrist.
     The further one moves to the left, the more likely one is to lose the election, even if they are likely to “win the argument”, in the words of a leader who had proceeded to do exactly that (lose the election).
     Interestingly, all three of them had either a parent who voted Conservative (Blair’s father voted Conservative) or had a traditionally Conservative upbringing (private school and/or Oxbridge) or both.
     Sir Keir fits into that mould, even though his family must have been lifelong Labour supporters to name him after the first Labour parliamentary leader Keir Hardie.
     As a former DPP, it would be very interesting to see his approach to wards crime.
     (c) Because of (b) above, I suspect that the great British public are inherently conservative (with a lower-case “c”), i.e. they don’t want radical change now, but a gradual change over a period of time.
     The Consevative (capital “C”) brand is tarnished, but the people still remain conservative (with a lower-case “c”)

     • I’ve never heard Attlee – the most radically transforming PM this country has had in its history – described as a ‘moderate’ before.
       Even Harold Wilson, derided as being ‘right wing’ at the time by the left, was, compared to Tony Blair, a raging Marxist.

     • Poland recently ousted their Right wing populist leader. I hope this is a sign that Europe will eventually come to its senses. Populists are disastrous for a nation. They promise much but deliver absolutely nothing.

       • So right about the damage populists create! Look at Trump, Bolsonaro in Brazil, Duterte in the Philippines and of course “beloved” Boris Johnson. They tend to be incompetent as well as authoritarian. Now Argentina appears to be poised to take a radical rightist turn as well.

9. Thank you, Gnarly Dude, was thinking the same
   ‘Perhaps I am trying to crowbar in the astrology but Pluto in Aquarius could represent a new version of representation for the people as it did in the past. ‘

   Times they are a-changing, not just for the micro UK political scene, but worldwide, with Pluto crossing the anaretic degree of Capricorn then into Aqua and not finally residing there until November 2024, along with both Saturn and Neptune in Pisces until they form a conjunction at the very start of Aries in May 2025, (with Uranus still ploughing through Taurus, excuse the pun,) we will churn through an uncomfortable few years. (Along with the other inhabitants of planet Earth). Not even thinking of what the planet will have evolved into, by then.

   Looking back at planetary cycles, the Pluto cycle being crucial, from the cycle building from Henry VIII and Queen Elizabeth I culminating in the Industrial Revolution, then descending until the death of Queen Elizabeth II, and the end of the British ‘Empire’ and what was Great Britain, now the UK, becoming the most multi-cultural country in the world. I find the Pluto cycles fascinating, especially as Pluto was not discovered (and came into human consciousness) until 18 February 1930, not even 100 years ago, at 17 degrees of Cancer.

10. What’s interesting here is that I don’t think Sunak’s personal chart is half bad after all the messy Brexiter leaders. He has some solid Earth, most importantly that Jupiter/Mars in Virgo, to actually care for implementation.

    • But he has zero political vision which is lucky for Starmer who is similarly lacking. Neither is a natural politician, both focus on micromanaging/ purging their respective parties, perhaps to be expected with the Virgo emphasis in their charts. Sunak may have the Moon in Aries, but it could be in Taurus depending on the time he was born. So there could be a lack of Fire in his chart, same for Starmer.

      In contrast, Johnson could make people feel good about themselves even if it was all built on lies (we are living in Neptune in Pisces era). Corbyn was/is an idealist. Both aroused strong emotions in people.

      • And both Sunak and Starmer have harsh Sun Pluto aspects – the need for individual power and control is paramount.

11. Not any astrology to contribute but as I said with the by-elections a few weeks back … while everything is being spun as great for Labour, the turnout was low and they haven’t gained votes, it’s the Cons haemorrhaging them.

    Mid-Bedfordshire
    – 2019 Labour 14,028 … Cons 38,692 (turnout 64%)
    – 2023 Labour 13,872 … Cons 12,680 (turnout 41%)

    Given Mid-Bedfordshire has been Conservative since the early 1930s, it looks like their voters abstained. Both a protest and seeing no point with an election due.

    Tamworth
    – 2019 Labour Co-op 10,908, Cons 30,542 (turnout 77%)
    – 2023 Labour 11,719 … Cons 10,403 (turnout 44%)

    Tamworth was held by Labour all the through the 90s but has been held by the Cons since 2010. So it’s quite possible that in a General Election this seat could swing back to Labour.

    It’s an interesting conundrum because we don’t know whether the vote share in each constituency is representative of everybody, or simply absent Tories who are showing their disdain.

    • …and the difference in actual votes went straight to Reform so def a protest vote against Cons. Not sure this would translate in a general election though….

      • yes that’s worrying me too

12. I notice that if the 23th November 2018 is correct for the Reform Party and if I do a Noon chart, they have their asc and south node at the end of Capricorn. I recall Nigel Farage saying that last time they guarranteed not to undermine the conservative vote and he felt their generosity wasn’t rewarded so he wasn’t minded to do the same next time….Can an astrologer predict the downfall of a voting system? I’m thinking is first past the post past it’s sell be date?

    • Re: FPTP being past its sell-by date … I think many UK voters feel that if their party isn’t in power – it’s a wasted vote. But I think when you look around the world many voters feel disenfranchised and unable to make a difference. The U.S. is an obvious example where there isn’t a 3rd option available.

      Perhaps I am trying to crowbar in the astrology but Pluto in Aquarius could represent a new version of representation for the people as it did in the past. We have reached a point where the politicians are doing things for their own benefit, their cronies or vested interests. That’s a similar scenario to when Kings looked down on the masses and issued decrees that the subjects didn’t like. One of the issues with current UK politics is Starmer won’t look to change FPTP if he gets in.

      There was a movement in the last 2-3 GEs where people contacted each online and swapped their votes. That seems a very Aquarius solution. If the powers that be won’t change, do it from the grassroots up … “https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-32410531”

    • My daughter is a political reporter. She got a great scoop with Farage who told her he’d be the Tory leader by 2026.
      I don’t think this is out of the question especially seeing his reception by ordinary Tory members at the conference.

      • May be much sooner than that there is talk of a spring replacement

      • Absolutely terrifying. The poundshop Moseley.

      • Sorry I beg to differ.

        Nigel Farage has always been a mischief maker. At a time when majority of polls show how unpopular brexit is, why would any old established party make an outsider whose name is synonymous with Brexit, their leader?

        Farage is old, with baggage and no way represents the views of the majority of the country. If Tories think other people’s policies can win votes they nick them, they don’t make them their leaders.

        If they wanted a populist leader they wouldn’t have kicked out Johnson.

        My guess is Penny Mordaunt as their next leader. I remember Marjorie pointing out in one of her posts about Pluto transiting Mordaunt’s chart from spring next year.

        • Mordaunt is going to lose her seat.

        • Also Farage has to gain a seat before he can become a party leader. One hopes this will prove to be a bridge too far.

          • there will be literally 100s to choose from at some point…16 in Kent alone…

          • Farage cannot win on his own. He couldn’t win a seat even at the peak of Brexit referendum, let alone now when the country wants to move on from the past. Tory media will keep propping him up to spread “their” message and to test the electoral waters. Come GE, tories will nick the message and make complete fool of Farage like they did in 2019 GE.
            As for Farage becoming their leader, Tories would never make an outsider their leader.
            The evidence is how they treated Liz Truss (Ex Lib Dem). She was never popular with Tory MPs nor with Tory grandees. She was always an outsider only propped up by Boris Johnson to counter Sunak. No one from the party came to her rescue when she fell. Sunak was their “boy”.