Suzanne Moore, the Guardian columnist, winner of last year’s Orwell Prize for journalism, has resigned over the paper’s lack of support for her when she was attacked by transgender zealots, who threatened her physically and her children. After she wrote a piece in which she said gender was a biological classification, ‘not a feeling’ and defended Selina Todd, an Oxford academic who had been no-platformed, over 300 Guardian staff complained about her.
Suzanne Moore said: “The way the column is spoken about, it’s as if it was Mein Kampf.’ “We have gone through the looking-glass and are being told that sex is a construct.” ‘It is said that sex is merely assigned at birth, rather than being a material fact – actually, though, sex is recognisable in the womb (which is what enables foetal sex selection). ‘Sex is not a feeling. Female is a biological classification that applies to all living species. If you produce large immobile gametes, you are female.’ Even if you are a frog. This is not complicated, nor is there a spectrum, although there are small numbers of intersex people who should absolutely be supported.’
Suzanne Moore, 17 July 1958, is known for her outspoken views and with an upfront Mars in Aries in an enthusiastic opposition to Jupiter North Node in Libra squaring onto a fairly ego-centric Cancer Sun it’s not surprising. Her Mercury in outspoken Leo is in a rebellious conjunction with Uranus which will tend to make her fairly direct as well. Her Mercury is also trine Mars and trine Saturn in self-righteous Sagittarius – so all in all, she’s well-designed to be an opinion column writer. Her Moon may be late Cancer or early Leo, perhaps square Mars or conjunct Uranus. An excitable lady and not one to be shouted down.
Selina Todd, 19 February 1975, the academic who was disinvited from a feminist conference, for holding supposedly transphobic views, also has her Mars in a Cardinal sign – Capricorn – and has a fixed sign Mercury in Aquarius trine Pluto, square Uranus and inconjunct Saturn so will tend to get pulled into heated arguments.
JK Rowling who also got it in the neck earlier this year (see post June 8 2020) for the same alleged sin equally has Mars in Cardinal sign Libra.
The Guardian ought to know better and it was a fertile relationship with Moore with their relationship chart having an Air Grand Trine of Sun Pluto trine Uranus trine Saturn with Uranus opposition Mars – so custom built for a co-operative venture in candid think-pieces.
Oddly the first issue chart for The Guardian, 5 May 1821, is fairly stark. There is a Sun Venus in Taurus; with Jupiter Saturn Mars conjunct in Aries; and Uranus Neptune in Capricorn. Some of that is extremely hard-edged and veering to the fanatical. Jupiter Saturn can be reasonably idealistic and Uranus Neptune can be inspired. But it’s a starker chart than I might have expected given its touchy-feely, tree-hugging inclinations.
(PS Amended from the previous Guardian JC chart – software glitch.)
Not sure there are too many conclusions to be drawn. The June post on Rowling concluded the fanatical bent of the transgender debate might be down to the generation born 1995 to 2003 who are of the Uranus Neptune generation which can lean towards zealotry and an extremism that is not open to debate.
And oddly enough Lola Olufemi, a fervent advocate of the transgender lobby who was involved in the de-platforming of Selina Todd is born 1996 when the Uranus Neptune conjunction was still in orb.
In ten years’ time we’ll be looking back, scratching our head wondering how on earth this madness caught such a hold. Suzanne Moore points out it also included arguments about Brexit and other topics – complete inability to tolerate the other point of view.
It’s fascist. Think as I do, speak as I do or I’ll destroy you. Scary.
Arriving very late to this thread, I see that Private Eye have named Guardian journalist, Owen Jones as the orchestrator of the letter of complaint against Suzanne Moore. This will not come as a surprise to those who are familiar with Jones’ opinions on trans issues. I had a look at Jones’ chart (8/8/84, Sheffield U.K.)
He has an intense Mars in Scorpio. Saturn in Scorpio is probably in sextile to the Moon in Capricorn with Chiron in Gemini as the focal point of a yod, conjunct the North Node in Gemini. Moon is also conjunct Jupiter/Neptune and squares many of Suzanne Moore’s Libyan planets. His Leo Sun squares the Scorpio Mars and he has a T-Square on Mercury in Virgo, squaring a Uranus/Chiron opposition.
*Libran.
I support transgender people but when we are at the point where it is considered unPC to acknowledge biological differences between men and women, it is too far. When we are at the point that women who are biologically men can compete in professional women’s sport, it’s quite simply not fair. I support Martina Navratilova in her stance against this.
Selina Todd: “when Suzanne’s colleagues complained about “transphobic” writing, they were referring to a column she wrote defending me. (…) Last year, Maya Forstater lost her job at a think tank for expressing views similar to my own” (The Times 21.11.20).
Maya wrote this transphobic tweet in which she denies that trans women are women: “I don’t think being a woman/female is a matter of identity or womanly feelings” (Judgment against Maya, 25). Therefore, Suzanne’s sin is to have defended Todd, who is a transphobe because she admits to subscribe to Maya’s opinions.
Phobia is derived from the Greek for ‘aversion’ or ‘morbid fear’. It is a monumental stretch to apply it to people who give every indication of being sympathetic to people who are transgender. Their objection is linguistic and biological. To describe them as transphobic is a kind of gaslighting.
Indigenous North Americans (I.e., the “Indians”) have long recognized the existence of what they call “two-spirit people.” For me, this is just a tempest in a teapot. [*shrug*] Who cares how anyone presents themselves to the world, as long as there is no intention to commit wrongs against others in doing so. I can see the cardinal connection, astrologically, in all this.
https://lgbtqhealth.ca/community/two-spirit.php
As your link points out, Two-spirit is a relatively recent confection, from Winnipeg in 1990.
Not exactly the wisdom of the ages you alluded to.
@Nel. I completely agree with your comments: Women we are XX chromosomes and men are XY and that is the fundamental difference between men and women. To maintain the ‘sex’ of their choice they have to take hormone replacement therapy. Off topic but my issue is as a woman (XX) who has undergone an induced menopause, at a young age, I now require HRT to function normally (brain fog is real) and to ensure I do not get Osteoarthritis. I need this medication. However, every 6 months after my DR has given me my prescription I have to go to at least 3 different pharmacies in order to try and get my prescription as there is a shortage. I’m in the UK and in the UK the National Health Service only orders enough HRT for women, although, Dr’s can and do prescribe to MTF off script. Therefore, there is not enough HRT for women (XX). Maybe I am being self centered but I need that HRT to be healthy, and it annoys me there is a shortage as MTF are being prescribed to simply feminize their bodies. Surely, based on the trans agendas arguments they are women irrespective with or without HRT. I strongly believe that women (XX) should be the first in the que for HRT. I need some female privilege!
@XX Factor, so sorry to hear this! I know from my own experience female specific drug shortage is a real issue. As I mentioned, I have endometriosis and have to use hormonal contraception to stop me from ovulating to be functional. Otherwise, I have constant, low grade infection, anemia and unpredictable (many endometriosis patentients experience this during menstruation, I also had similar pain around ovulation) immobilizing pain coming and going. I’m lucky I now have an IUD that’s going to see me well into pre-menopause, because this suits me, and finding “just the right” pill wasn’t easy earlier. This seems to be a common thing. And, in Summer of 2019, there were Europe wide shortages of certain popular brands due to factory delivery chain issues, leading to hoarding and even black market.
Unfortunately, experts predict these kind of issues will become more common, not due to increased demand – this could be met -, but production and distribution distruptions. If you’re in Britain, Brexit will very likely lead to wide spread shortage of all sorts of medicines. And you know which are the first medicines that will be cut from distribution? It’s a mess, I know, but hardly caused by that one trans woman next door getting to your local pharmacy first (unless there’s something really wrong with The UK pharmacies, giving a preference to non-NHS prescriptions, which, kind of does not sound that off brand with Tory philosophy, and then again, you should maybe lobby with your local MP).
Strange for a man with gender dysphoria around his male body to be married, in the military and have 5 kids. That’s certainly giving the hetty lifestyle a good go. Especially as he wrote that he suddenly found he could not reverse a car after his transition (too masculine). Honestly, fits the agp model exactly and we’re all fawning over ‘Jan’. Wake up and smell the roses.
AGP?
I googled it. I think it’s “Autogynephilia”:
“The second group are motivated to transition as a result of what Blanchard termed ‘autogynephilia’: a sexual orientation defined by sexual arousal at the thought or image of oneself as a woman. Autogynephiles are typically sexually attracted to women, although they may also identify as asexual or bisexual. They are more likely to transition later in life and to have been conventionally masculine in presentation up until that point.”
Link:
https://quillette.com/2019/11/06/what-is-autogynephilia-an-interview-with-dr-ray-blanchard/
Hmm my recollection is he said from age three or four he was aware there was a disjuncture between his body and how he felt. So much earlier.
Yes. Blanchard and also Michael Bailey (“The Man Who Would Be Queen) noted this propensity to lie amongst AGPs -heterosexual rather than homosexual transsexuals because of shame.
Usually the agp starts out as masturbating in his mother or sisters’ underwear at about age 12, and then narcissistically falls in love with the idea of himself as a woman, while retaining very masculine lives and behaviours until midlife.
They do this via a secret second life of fantasising that they have a woman’s body, a woman’s body functions (menstruating, being pregnant, breast feeding)., doing women’s things like knitting, eg extreme porn proponent John Ozibek, or by entering women only spaces. 80 percent of men who identify as women keep their penises.
Transsexual Miranda Yardley has written about this and so has transsexual Dr. Anne A Lawrence ” Becoming What We Love”. He sees transsexual Agp as romantic love for the self. He also was involved in rewriting the DSM V criteria for gender identity disorder.
Julia, many months too late I have seen your brilliant, realistic comment – pass the gin and the loaded gun! what madness lies in front of us????
The Guardian ceased to be a touchy, feely, tree-hugging newspaper quite some time ago. The authoritarian side kicked in most strongly after the departure of Alan Rusbridger and the installation of Katharine Viner. Some say that the security forces play more of a hands on role regarding content, ever since the Wikileaks and Snowden leaks published in the paper but who knows? One thing is for sure, nothing is allowed to be too radically questioning of the status quo in Britain. Not any more. Some identity politics wrangles continue to give the veneer of progressive thinking but not so they upset any truly powerful applecarts.
I have strong feelings about putting vulnerable women in domestic violence refuges/prisons at risk and medical interference in children before they are of an age to make mature decisions – and indeed to block research into the post-transition phase including those who change their minds. But what really jangles my antennae about this phenomenon is how it has taken centre stage and evoked such violent reactions. As Moore says “We are talking about a tiny per cent of a tiny per cent of the population.” She (I think) blames some of it on Labour Party attitudes and they are, bizarrely, reckoned to be misogynist.
I’m always fascinated (and sometimes appalled) by how an idea can infect and take a grip of a society, only to be abandoned years down the line. Obviously the push to decriminalise and stop the persecution of homosexuals was necessary and humane. But other less salubrious causes try to hang onto the coat tails of the legitimate ones.
There’s an uncomfortable feeling in the ‘anything goes’ and ‘no restrictions’ when it comes to gender/sex choice, of the early days of sex liberation in the 1960s when even paedophilia was reckoned worth fighting for (yes really).
I won’t go into a psychobabble rant about the pathology of the ‘no boundaries’ perverted mindset. But there is an insanity about manipulating scientific reality to suit a delusion. Chromosomes don’t lie. For the unfortunate few, very few, who inhabit a grey area in the middle there is nothing but sympathy. But that shouldn’t be an excuse for broad sweep legislation and practice which affects others. The old saying that extreme cases makes bad law is apposite.
Jan Morris transitioned years back and had nothing but support. She was a million miles away from the hear-no-dissension zealots.
@Marjorie, one think worth noticing Suzanne Moore brought up is how The UK trans activists are fighting very different battles than, let’s say, US activists on legislative front. This is a very valid point missed by many younger activists. Where I live, for instance, we are still trying to override forced sterilization of people going through “transition”. This is partly because even trans activist here recognize transition as a long process and possibility of detransition – we are definitely seeing young adult girls struggling with body issues assuming trans man identity and only subsequently realizing that was not their issue, something Suzanne Moore also points to.
On the whole, the discussion here on the issue isn’t this shouted. We definitely do not have this hysteria around “predatory trans women entering safe places” people in some parts of English speaking World – but again, to be noted, apparently not Suzanne Moore, who is very no-nonsense about this non-issue – seem to have. I wonder if that might have something to do about how you tend to feel about bodies, in general. There’s just a profound amount of “mystique” around physical bodies in both The UK and The US. Everything must either be overtly sexualized or distacked from the body. This is something I never felt comfortable with the gender/sex division mostly Anglosaxon and French Second Wave Feminists propagated, because it seemed limiting. Even biologically, not all in our bodily functions are based on sex, not even our hormonal functions. Honestly, while I am not “denying” biological sex myself, I just don’t see it THAT defining of my, or others, existence, despite my very problematic ovaries and womb (I have endometriosis that has required surgery and requires ongoing hormonal treatment to).
The USA is vastly different on all LGBT+ and abortion issues. The UK was remarkably ahead with the Wolfenden Report in 1957 which recommended decriminalising homosexuality, passed into law in 1967; and David Steel’s Abortion Bill also in 1967.
I come from a showbiz background where anything pretty much goes and no one cares or judges, except where kids are involved. I then moved into psychotherapy which makes almost no distinction at all between the sexes. Though to be frank I found that was a failing.
I’ve always been fascinated by the differences between the sexes – physically in terms of muscle bulk etc and also neurologically in terms of brain development, though any discussion of the latter tends to raise ire. I really don’t believe the difference between male and female can be put down to nurture. Social mores do make a difference but don’t and can’t obliterate the underlying natural state.
A previous UK Prisons Minister said in his time that several female prison guards had been raped by self-identifying prisoners still equipped with the wherewithal. Reading wiki about Finland, prison governors appear to have latitude for coping with transgender prisoners and may have used more common sense about keeping the predators at bay.
If media cannot provide a safe workplace, what is going on? I completely agree with Suzanne Moore on the issue, but even if I didn’t, I think she can have her say without harrasment and threats. Why do so many in authority think it is ok to treat mainly women, this way, regarding this issue? A number of women have lost jobs saying what Suzanne has said and some were mothers raising children alone. Is there a selfish, me, me aspect to the 1995-2003 generation which lacks compassion? The gay rights movement fought for and eventually got equal rights without imposing on heterosexual people and de platforming any person who did not agree with them. In my country New Zealand, the gay men had a spokesman, probably born in the late forties, who used his quiet charm to win support for his community. I wonder what aspect he has in his chart.
@Delia, I’m all for protecting people working at media, and on any workplace, for that matter, against physical and psychological threats. This is, in fact, something I work with in my dull daytime job and would like to pursue on expert level (see Priti Patel “bullying” case discussion). I’m all for organizations finding ways for their members to safely report and resolve any issues related to these matter. But, if you read Suzanne Moore’s own account at unherd.com, her case wasn’t about this. She names “the usual” filt every female journalist (and gay men) or opinionist, trans or cis, gets to their DMs on Twitter coming from, what I suspect, “Incel” men (she mentions ejaculating being a theme there). As for what specifically made working for “The Observer” so hard, she mentions receiving a note in 2018, prompting her to be “civil” at a Christmas do. Wonder what prompted that?
Thanks for referring to the Suzanne’s article on unherd.com. It is really a brilliant article and explains a lot.
Delia, interesting about the gay spokesman….. (who was he?) I too am a Kiwi (long transplanted to the other side of the world) but for a small country, you could say NZ is advanced. I’ve lived in the Netherlands for decades but even in this liberal land, I heard some lamenting on the radio recently that NZ is far ahead regarding prostitution, which is considered a job in NZ – i.e. they pay taxes, and – most importantly have the same police protection – as every other citizen.
To my amazement, it is not the same here, and though famous for that very profession, is still ‘dodgy’ as we’d call it – not legal. Yes of course blind eyes are turned as it is part of Amsterdam but some are angling to get the Kiwi model in place, simply to have the higher level of protection.
“Not sure there are too many conclusions to be drawn. The June post on Rowling concluded the fanatical bent of the transgender debate might be down to the generation born 1995 to 2003 who are of the Uranus Neptune generation which can lean towards zealotry and an extremism that is not open to debate.”
I’m not of this Uranus/Neptune generation, but frankly, have absolutely no understanding what so ever for Rowlings and Moore’s arguments, which, especially in Rowlings’ case, are illogical and based on very limited understanding of biology, and Moore’s case seems to be just nastiness and need to hurt people. I’m not “zealot” about this, but then again, had to go through similar fights in the mid-1990’s defending my Gay and Lesbian friends, who, according to many people back then, were still “deviant”, and were told their sexuality was a perversion, or in best of cases, “preference”.
Also, as someone who has to be careful about voicing all sorts of not particular popular leftist opinions because of her very regular, not particularly well paid day job, I can’t but roll eyes on the privilege these people given enormous platforms to voice their opinions going all victim when groups that are not in position of power argue back. Since JKR is a Sun Leo, and Sarah Moore seems to be a Leo Moon, I wonder if this is a Leo quality?
Women are not anti trans, they are anti the abuse of them and their loss of hard thought for sex based rights. Trans men have demanded lesbians have sex with them. Anyone who disagrees is transphobic. Trans activists refer to mothers as birth parent, child bearing women as cervix havers. This is not a healthy movement and the female sex was never asked if they wished for these changes. We are not talking about full transgendered women here, we are talking about men who do not take hormones and just say they identify as a woman, now give us your jobs and your traditional female spaces, eg refuges.
“We are not talking about full transgendered women here, we are talking about men who do not take hormones and just say they identify as a woman, now give us your jobs and your traditional female spaces, eg refuges.”
Ironically, this is what Suzanne Moore herself writes on subject on her very long account:
“Other women were now starting to be disturbed by the idea of transwomen with working male genitalia in womens spaces. The idea of the predatory trans person is not one I am particularly invested in, really. We are talking about a tiny percentage of a tiny percentage of the population. I am not that bothered about toilets or changing rooms. My youth was spent in gay clubs and with wonderful trans people who looked after me in New Orleans. Refuges, though? Prisons? Surely that can be sorted out and it has to be.”
Yes, spot on about the fact that you are born male or female…… of course it must be difficult to feel you’re in the wrong body (I’ve known children of 6 upwards who think they are the other sex) – but making war on anyone who disagrees cannot change nature.
@Maggy Cassin, you realize you are making exactly the same argument against trans people many “good” people were making against gay and lesbian people in as recently as in the 1990’s? Including that “nature” part. Having been “an ally” before half of “Pride” participants were ones – there actually even wasn’t “Pride” march for years when I found myself with half of my Uni class being gay or lesbian – I was exposed to some of these arguments while hanging around with them, myself never questioning that their sexuality wasn’t very real and not result of some trauma or dysmorphia. And yes, it was definitely against them, in all apparent kindness, because I saw how much it hurt them. Because being gay or lesbian wasn’t really what was “painful” to them, it was the denial that they existed. They would not, also, always express themselves particularly elegantly towards those bigots, because of the emotional charge involved.
Interesting to see it has Neptune/Uranus in the 4th and Moon opposite Mercury 4/10th. I read somewhere that the Guardian has changed its political allegiance eight times since WW2. Could that mean miscalculation of communication with it readers? It’s circulation is falling. Difficult to know which way it wants to go at the moment. Uranus will criss cross its Mercury next year and may force changes to its editorial?
The other element of Suzanne Moore’s argument and the argument in general, is that it disadvantages women.
The cardinal signs are over-represented in this argument, Capricorn, Libra – and the very Arian Guardian chart – are political signs. No wonder our planet is completely stuffed when people question the fundamental truth of being born as one sex or the other – or that it is flexible. With the Node between Jupiter/Neptune in Sag I’d say Suzanne Moore has an instinct for the truth.
In the Netherlands people can be whatever sex they choose, and they manage this without confrontation or any fuss publicly. Nobody is confronted by others insisting on their rights; they already have them.
People can choose whichever sex they wish to be called or seen as. However, that is Moore’s argument. Your sex is determined by your XX and XY chromosomes in the first part of pregnancy. Surgery and continual hormone treatment is needed to maintain the sex of a persons choice. The minute they stop taking the hormones, their body will start to revert back to natures selection. This is the conundrum of choice, it is only a choice maintained by hormone treatment. The argument of nurture/nature will always exist. Attacking Moore for actually presenting the truth is futile. Science is fighting back because of the truth about the need for treatment to self select. The reality is people who self select their sex or lifestyle, will always be in a transgender.
Correct. Anyone who believes that the XX and XY chromosomes, hormone production, menstral cycles, testosterone, estrogen, and everything else that goes into having a body, either male or female, is not important has never taken a science class, and has never taken biology, human anatomy and physiology. They can try to bend this to their will all they want, but nature has a way of winning.
I took time to read through Suzanne Moore’s unherd.com article. Twice. I must take back what I said about her playing victim. She isn’t. She is very aware of consequences pf her words.
And, in her case, at least, she doesn’t see this as “zealot transactivists” threatening her or freedom of speech in general, per se. In fact, she goes way out harrassment and threats she’s been subjected to mostly (exclusively?) come from “cis” males. The way I read it, she has it more with “Establishment”, let it be “The Guardian” HR department (I suppose) issuing her a warning on “behaving” during a Christmas do, or Labour leadership than activist themselves. What I read more is frustration on having “shouted to the wind” on Feminist issues for decades and finding younger, social media savvy people getting heard almost immediately. I’d say her feelings are accentuated by Saturn transit on her T-square.
As someone who has identified herself as an “inclusive” pragmatic Feminist – meaning, I think that *even men* can be Feminists – for 30 years and read her Gramsci in original language, I also get a distinct feeling we are being played here. It’s almost as if someone wanted to stoke division between people having many shared goals. It’s nothing new, either. Gramsci wrote his works on “cultural hegemony” in prison because Italian Antitotalitarians failed to unify against Fascists in the early 1920’s.
Penis is male, who knew?
Thank you Marjorie
I have enjoyed Suzanne Moore’s Guardian column for many years. Sometimes agreeing, sometimes disagreeing and I did feel that something was building up to be expressed around this issue. When the article came out about women needing be able to organise etc I thought finally she has said what needed to be said in this news paper. I work with women in dire circumstances. Funding is very poor, women are being killed at alarming rates. The pandemic is exacerbating an already cruel level of domestic violence. Refuges are unable to help ciswomen properly due to many things but IMHO it boils down to the low priority given to women’s lives. Transwomen DO need space and security but it is not with ciswomen. It is with other transwomen.