There are various charts for Scotland of which 25 March 1005 JC is one with a start time of between 11am and 12 noon. 12 noon would give a Leo Ascendant which doesn’t feel right. 11.20am puts Saturn in Cancer on the Asc which feels better; with a rebellious Uranus conjunct the MC and a feisty, combative Sun Mars in Aries in the 10th. Neptune in the 6th fits with typically bad health; and an insecure Moon in the financial 2nd; and a mutinous Pluto in the 4th. So it could be OK, but going on characteristics doesn’t always work well.
The one I prefer is 25 Nov 1034 JC 12 noon Perth, which has Jupiter Mercury Sun in much-travelled, outspoken and education-oriented Sagittarius conjunct the MC from the 9th, opposition a ‘wild’ Gemini Node square Neptune in Pisces the 1st, below an Aquarius Ascendant; With a difficult-relationship-with neighbours Saturn Uranus on the Descendant; and a frustrating, angry and martial Mars Pluto in the 12th; plus Moon in Aries in the 2nd.
My preference isn’t so much on the national characteristics as what works against major events – like Bannockburn (a win!) in 1314 and the union with England in 1707, the latter a very Saturnine event.
On this 1034 chart, the 2014 referendum happened on a Neptune Return; with tr Pluto conjunct the 1034 Mars – so hostile, bitter and blocked. At the moment Pluto is on a Return to the 1034 Pluto. Tr Uranus will move to square the Uranus Descendant in 2019 which looks like a rebellion against a relationship that feels like a burden with more upsets come 2021 as tr Uranus squares the 7th house Saturn.
If the start time is sound I wouldn’t expect true independence till the late 2020s when tr Pluto crosses the Ascendant and opposes Uranus and then Saturn. At that point tr Uranus will move round in hard aspect to Jupiter Mercury Sun Node and Neptune as well, which could be liberating and relief. So the tug of war may go on for a while.
And the other chart is no more indicative of a quick separation with a seriously stuck tr Pluto square Mars and opposition Saturn until 2023. Maybe freedom by 2027 when tr Uranus is conjunct the Jupiter.
Both charts probably have a validity but I’d reckon the 1034 is better for events.
I’ve just read this article / comments now (posted on ‘Scotland Referendum – try, try again’ earlier) and once again I’m absolutely astounded with the language being used: Totally flabbergasted that someone in your position Marjorie has made such unfair and sweeping statements about Scots. It sounds as though your own personal experiences, which I’m sorry to hear about, are now being projected onto a whole Nation.
The Scots don’t have a gripe at all with ordinary English people, it’s Westminster that we have an issue with and the fact that 86 Scots sitting in Westminster are constantly over-ruled by over 600 politicians from rUK AND 800 unelected peers in the House of Lords. Add to that 26 Bishops of the Church of England, Lords Spiritual, sitting in the House of Lords making decisions for us too. Clergy relating to all other religions and the Church of Scotland are banned with the UK being one of only two nations Worldwide still reserving places in their parliaments for unelected religious clerics. The other is Iran.
Over 800,000 English people have relocated to Scotland and I never hear / read about them feeling that they are ‘hated’ at all. Far from it, as they seem to love living here as do many individuals from much further afield.
It’s not only SNP supporters that want Independence by the way. Many English people now living in Scotland want it too, as do Labour, Tory and Lib-Dem voters. We also have cross-party political groups supporting Independence, such as Business for Scotland, Lawyers for Scotland, Farmers for Scotland and so on.
‘’Quite a chunk of the SNP rhetoric is rooted in anti-English sentiment.’’ I’m trying to ‘recall’ any examples of such SNP rhetoric, but can’t. Many SNP politicians / Councillors are originally from England, Ireland, France and so on and / or have spouses who were formerly from other parts of the UK / abroad. Many Independence supporters, like myself, have English relatives, as does Nicola Sturgeon whose maternal grandmother is English and if anyone wishes to carry out a little research they will see that she won’t tolerate anti-English (or other) language / behaviour. She in fact has been (continues to be) bombarded with thousands of anti-Scottish comments and abusive (sexual / physical) comments online, including death threats which are being investigated by the Police.
‘’Nationalism is as divisive as racism. But he was right.’’ Dearie me, Marjorie, agreeing with him? That’s below the belt. As to Mr Khan whose parents were born in Pakistan and his grandparents in India, rather hypocritically, has tweeted formerly ‘Happy Independence Day to Pakistan for today and India for tomorrow! 67 years of freedom.’ I wonder if he considered them to be racist when they strove to acquire their ‘freedom’?
‘’Inward looking and insular.’’ Scotland is an outward-looking internationalist country Marjorie and most of us want Independence for the same reasons as did the 60 former Countries / Colonies who managed to achieve their objective. We want the Government at Holyrood to be one that we, Scots, have actually voted for (Scots haven’t voted for Tories in over 60 years); to take responsibility for our own future and that of our children; to make decisions that reflect Scottish priorities such as in relation to welfare; to adopt our own immigration policy to suit our particular needs; to be in a position to refuse being dragged into illegal wars / immoral invasions and rid ourselves of Nuclear weapons, especially as cross party politicians in Scotland have voted against them / the majority of Scots don’t want them based in Scotland.
And for those who question why we want out of the Union but want to join the EU, well we have in fact been ‘ruled’ by both Westminster and the EU for over 40 years now with Scotland having no say in the latter. If we find that, following Independence, we do not want to remain in the EU (or EEA) we will hold our own Referendum free from the lies / exaggerations that dominated the referendum of June 2016.
It’s also worth mentioning too that the number of countries in the world increased considerably during the last century from 62 independent countries to around 200. Most of them have populations of less than ten million (and are highly successful). Dozens have populations of less than one million.
Taking everything into account, I just can’t understand why so many people seem to think that the Scots are incapable of running their own affairs (will be as poor as Greece) and more so that it’s alright for many other countries to want to be Independent, but in Scotland’s case it’s because we’re racist, inward looking, insular and hate-ridden.
Thank you for your post, Margaret. It’s a relief to read someone who knows what they’re talking about. Norma
this is supposed to be a friendly astrology based forum, not a toilet wall to smear your shrill bigotry masquerading as your version of the truth. Take it to the Daily Heil or UKIP where it belongs
What I really don’t understand is where this victim mindset comes from in Scotland – done down by the hated English. The Scots are enormously resourceful, resilient, courageous and capable people. They have produced Prime Ministers, editors of national papers, heads of industry, financiers, as well as engineers, doctors galore.
A relationship, as in the UK, doesn’t mean you’re weaker, quite the reverse you’re gaining strength from being part of a bigger whole. And what’s more there have been times the Scots did seem to be taking the entire UK enterprise over, and good on them. OK, the UK is too London-centric but France is too Paris-centric etc etc. It’s inevitable. And there’s a good deal of devolution now to Edinburgh, which it would have to be said the SNP are making a hotch of across a range of public services which have slid badly. Scottish education used to be a shining example to the world.
It’s the inward looking, insular thing that is off-putting. Scots were always global travellers, internationalists at heart. Sadiq Khan, the London mayor, got it in the neck for saying Scottish nationalism is as divisive as racism. But he was right and indeed quite a chunk of the SNP rhetoric is rooted in anti-English sentiment which I also don’t get and never did – and it’s been around since I was growing up which wasn’t yesterday.
The poor little downtrodden me attitude is just a nonsense, more a psychological quirk than anything based in reality.
Scotland wants to split from the RUK (well England in truth); and then the Shetlands want to go back to Norway; the Highlands and Islands want away from the Lowlands of Scotland. You’ll end up with pocket handkerchiefs. There’s strength in unions and the Scots are more than capable of contributing mightily to UK Inc and indeed getting a grip of the UK tiller if they put their minds to it.
Completely agree Marjorie. The SNP are driven on lies nad propganda. Not all Scots have fallen for it. This week so many people were distraught when Sturgeon announced a second referendum with no warning. However I’m scared the lies have brain washed many others. I just hope a second referendum can be held off until after 2021 because by then I feel the SNP might lose their hold on Holyrood. I hope this is the case. Someone asked if you could do an SNP chart. Would you consider it? thank you.
Will do tomorrow
Thank you!
Could you please do a chart for the SNP? I’m inclined to agree that if they insist on nothing but independence for the next few years I can see their support slipping away.
Ill informed and offensive xenophobia should have no place on a friendly astrology website such as yours Marjorie. The letters column of the right wing press and ukip message boards have plenty of space for that kind of ordure – ” special charity case” indeed..
Ill informed, ehh? Scotland has been ruled from afar since the 1500s, first effectively from Paris (the Auld Alliance, Mary of Guise, etc), then from London. Now it is offered a choice of being ruled by laws made in either London or Brussels. Scotland has 8% of the British population and has commensurate influence. In the EU, it will be much less. We will see which one is better for Scotland.
It is also worth remembering that the Scots agreed to the Union with England in 1707 because they were practically bankrupted by the Darien scheme.
The Scottish government has a 9.5% deficit, while the EU has a target of about 3%. So, the Scottish government would need either budget cuts that would make the Tory cuts look mild or put taxation up to astronomical levels. Or be a charity case, special or otherwise.
Truth may be offensive, but that does not stop it from being the truth.
Thank you for that, Marjorie. I will be honest in saying that I am a bit disappointed. Personally, though I am from south of the border, I would happily campaign for Scottish independence, primarily to get rid of that noisy lot. I personally think they would suffer massively without the excessive subsidies they get from us south of the border. So, it is a win-win for both of us if they depart.
Can you look at the charts of Scotland vs the EU to see if it has a chance to join the EU? Given that the EU has quite strict economic requirements to join the EU, I think it is unlikely, but then they can take Scotland in as a special charity case, as they did with Greece, I believe.
Also, on a slightly related topic, you have mentioned Germany due for a major shock in the next two months. Do you think that shock could be a Marine-le-Pen win in the first round of elections? That would certainly be a major shock to both Germany and the EU. Or do you think that the shock will be more local (within Germany)?
I’m also interested in the Scotland/EU question, as the EU is going through a changeable time. I’m not sure the EU will last, certainly not in its current form, and potentially break up all together in time… so why would Scotland want to join the EU now? It seems the questions should be separated & Scotland should have 2 votes. 1 on independence from the UK and a second on joining the EU.
Tying their load to the EU could be the biggest mistake Scotland make.
Scotland is not strong enough to stand on its own. The question is really which union should it be in; the UK or the EU? In either, it will be a small minority.
I do not believe another referendum will happen until the next Holyrood elections however interesting you mention 2021. I think the SNP might lose their hold on Holyrood then and if they do that puts independence off the table until at least 2030 as the SNP would then need to gain control in 2026 in order to ask for one.