Pluto – lord of hanging on grimly

Two revealing examples of Sun opposition Pluto in action hit the headlines this week from two over-exposed personalities who refused to concede defeat, when a tactical withdrawal down a very deep rabbit hole might have seemed sensible. Prince Andrew and Amber Heard both declared war on common sense.

   Amber Heard with her Sun Taurus opposition Pluto lost her libel suit against Johnny Depp, was absolved by him from paying the multi-million dollar damages bill and promptly leapt back out to repeat the allegations that had landed her in court in the first place.  And Prince Andrew with breath-taking hubris, entitlement, delusional lack of common sense and realism – I’m not even sure how to describe it –  thought he could sashay back into his princely role and the public domain, having been banished mere months ago. Never mind the sexual Epstein imbroglio, his career has been swamped by connections to dodgy billionaires and sleazy financial scandals which had him booted off the trade envoy role, with an endless stream since – all of which evoked an almost sociopathic lack of shame.

  Sun Pluto hard aspects may differ slightly between the genders, since men will tend to act out the dominating side while women can in their younger adult years live out the submissive side. Though that is not a hard and fast rule. It can make individuals overbearing, with a tendency to compel others to fit into their world view; and be aggressive in the sexual sphere. There is an intense need to express and impose their will on those around and a desperation to be seen as not only in control but also appreciated as perfect. Underneath which is always a deep sense of shame stemming from a damaged sense of identity. More than anything they fear letting go which is an essential part of the transformation process. They hang on and stagnate.

  Andrew appears to have had Pluto’s bullying streak from early in his life – for some it takes adulthood to become empowered, however imperfectly. He was referred to by Prince Philip as ‘the boss’, played unkind pranks on family members, was over-indulged by the Queen and developed an unbalanced sense of his own importance. His pomposity depended on him being second in line to the throne which was pricked as Charles’ children arrived and he slid down the rankings.

   His insensitivity and lack of empathy is legendary to an extent where it could be seen as a symptom of a pathology.  When the Queen mistakenly sent him to Lockerbie on a sympathy mission after a devastating passenger plane crash, he blithely informed the locals that it was worse for the Americans – who lost  more numerically – and anyway such a crash was ‘only a matter of time.’  

  His Plutonic tendencies are exacerbated by his 4th house Scorpio Moon which will obdurately set his face against admitting failure or letting go.

  Added to which he has a deeply secretive 8th house Mercury in Pisces. It is interesting for another reason apart from the Scorpio resonance of the 8th since it sits on one leg of a Yod sextile Saturn inconjunct Uranus in his 1st house. A focal point Uranus can be a trailblazer but it can also be willful, defiant, disruptive, intolerant and lawless. And when it is triggered it indicates a fated change of direction. Tr Uranus will move to square his Uranus from this July onwards so a strategy for burying Andrew might (maybe) appear.

  Transiting Uranus opposition his Moon in 2024 is likely to be the key upheaval following since it suggests major upsets and changes at home and in the family, perhaps affecting the Queen. When she goes so does his lifeline to status.

   On a quick look at his astrocartography, central Australia in the empty quarter is a possibility with his settled-at-home Sun IC line there, which also runs north through South Korea. Kazakhstan where he has had some questionable alliances in the past has his Jupiter on his IC so he would feel at home there – although his old friends appear to be in hot water so probably not too welcoming just at the moment.

  I’ve always wondered whether the rumours about his parentage, being perhaps the son of Lord Porchester, the Queen’s racing manager, might have affected the way the Queen treats him and indeed his own off-balance personality. It was a well-accepted certainty in racing circles before it emerged into the mainstream and such a state of affairs is hardly pass remarkable amongst the aristocracy. The story has sunk into the background in recent years, out of respect for the Queen.

 What is intriguing – though no proof of anything – is that Porchester’s Capricorn Sun, 19 January 1924, is exactly conjunct Andrew’s Venus Mars; Porchester’s Uranus is conjunct Andrew’s Mercury and his Neptune conjunct Andrew’s Uranus – so he hits all of Andrew’s key points. And Porchester’s Saturn and Mars fall in Andrew’s 4th so an awkward family/domestic connection.

 It was an easier and more affectionate relationship than Andrew had with Prince Philip.  Though no doubt all of this will have to wait for a respectable distance into the future to be finally nailed down. Porchester died on 9/11.

  The other strongly Plutonic and can’t-let-go type is Angelina Jolie whose separation from Brad Pitt is dragging on endlessly – her Sun is trine Pluto but her Moon Mars is opposition Pluto and square Saturn which is beyond unyielding.

  For Heard see 13 April 2022 and 7 July 2020.

  Apologies for Royal overkill and flogging a dead horse – but I am eternally fascinated by what makes people tick. Or rather what lies behind bizarre behaviour.

Any Pluto examples welcome.

36 thoughts on “Pluto – lord of hanging on grimly

  1. I think it extremely unlikely that the Queen would have had an affaire with anyone, never mind Lord Porchester. One of the less agreeable parts of being a Royal is that there are people around you all the time. If you are going to have an affaire, you need privacy and opportunity, and I doubt she had much of either. Furthermore, there is every reason to think that she takes her Christianity and position as the head of the Church of England very seriously. The Queen is well aware of the harm to her reputation for integrity and reliability if she were seen to be carrying on an affaire. I appreciate that stranger things have happened, but I just think, all things considered, it very unlikely.
    As regards Pluto in hard aspect to the Sun, when it comes to Amber Heard, it strikes me that while a stubborn Sun in Taurus opposite Pluto might not help, Pluto is quincunx a hasty Mercury in Aries, (slightly inclined to put foot in mouth) and Mercury is square Neptune and Mars. All this may help her in her acting career, but I am not sure if it makes for good judgement or for learning when to keep one’s mouth shut.
    My limited experience of dealing with men with Sun square Pluto is that they often have formidable mothers who invest a lot in their sons. The sons grow up into formidable adults, often in a position of power or control, with high standards, occasionally ruthless, and considerable expertise in their chosen field. Not always warm or easy people, but high achievers. It helps, of course, to be reasonably intelligent. Sadly, some princes are not.

    • I agree regarding the Queen not having had an affair with Lord Porchester owing in part to her devout religious beliefs and devotion and duty to the Church and to the country.
      She had been a close friend of Lord Porchester since they were teenagers and they shared a passion for horses and their breeding rather than each other I think!
      And friends are important when you are as isolated from society as the Queen
      I believe her marriage to Philip was a true love match which overcame many difficult times and endured to the end. No marriage is perfect as far as I know!
      Andrew looks like the Queen as he ages.
      I see no resemblance to photos of Lord Porchester.

  2. Re: the Queen’s children – there was me thinking Philip and Elizabeth were restarting their marriage after growing apart when they had Andrew and Edward. Is there room for this interpretation too?

  3. Pluto 15 leo opp Sun 15 Aqu. Sun trine Neptune 15 Libra.
    A failure to see others point of view, laughed out loud Marjorie
    Says sorry but it’s just a word and keeps on doing it.
    Won’t let go of destructiveness.
    Re writes history in their favour.
    Neither admits nor denies, (lies)
    A truculent child in an adult body like a teenager.
    But it’s the failure to actually take on board any ones point of view and assimilate it that gets me. There is only them. Shame less.
    Welcome to someone close to me with Uranus 15 degrees on the square now and next year. Plus Jupiter stops on 15 Taurus next year as well.

    Incidentally, his first marriage to Pluto opposition Moon 2 and 3 degrees off his chart born same year.. Ceres in their as well! Sociopathic isn’t a big enough word. Their marriage ended as Pluto squared those planets. And, the 17/18 degrees square the Moon Pluto coming from Uranus and Saturn this year. Interesting.!
    They always seem to get things their way, I will say that and it’s extremely irritating to say the least.
    Unfeeling is an easy way of saying a
    Brick wall lined with lead.
    You asked Marjorie.
    Does that sum up Andrew as all.?

  4. Pluto, Pluto…. my biggest Teacher!
    I have Pluto in the 8th and my 8th house holds most of Leo and Virgo.
    When I decided to look at my Pluto, I saw this and thought, “Who would EVERY want to be friends or in a relationship with me?”… since most Baby Boomers and Gen X’ers will have their Pluto in my 8th house!!

    For sure… I am like Alka Seltzer for this. Many times we will come home and my husband will say.. “that thing you do happened again!”. I seem to trigger the Shadow in others in an unexpected way. Nice, ordinary people will blurt out something incredibly off and then be shocked by it! The creepiest person will gravitate to me at a social event. I’ve had people tell me I scare the crap out of them… and I really am quite normal and kind.

    However.. this Pluto energy rumbles away inside of me. It has taken YEARS to own it, to process the multi-generational heritage that Pluto in the 8th describes, and to work with the sexual energy that OTHERS perceive and react to. It was such a relief to finally marry a good person who sees all this and offers a kind of protection. Still…. I can still be surprised by this sudden, unexpected popping up of the Shadow.. in me and in others.

    and?.. we do laugh about it.
    and?… I make sure I have at least one or two Plutonian friends in my life… people who are very much in touch with their Shadow. Then having Pluto in the 8th is moot.

    and?… I very much see it as a journey of truly understanding Power and Powerlessness in all aspects of my life.

    thank Goodness my Pluto is trine my Moon!!…

  5. It is just not Andrew. There are rumours that the Queen’s youngest son’s real father is lord Plunket or his younger brother. Who knows anything is possible!

  6. Andrew was born a Prince and has no idea how the world functions and how to live in it. His mother is said to favour him, but to me it is more that she has had to supervise and protect him from his a way her other children never had to be.

  7. Regarding the Sun-Pluto connection, for me (female) it’s the square between the two and it’s certainly been difficult over the course of a lifetime. My astrology teacher used to say Sun-Pluto people need to learn to surrender to a higher power and I believe that to be true. To know that one cannot control everything, that you cannot change other people, and to let go and have faith… Right now it’s playing out with a controlling and verbally aggressive male neighbor… Have to tell myself every day that I do have to stand up for myself, but that I cannot change him! Big challenge

  8. I have a close female relative with Sun opposition Pluto, it seems to me that she perceives close relationships as competitive at all times, her feelings around power and powerlessness dominate her life. The aspect in a solar chart will mean Pluto is in the 7th House, so perhaps this will always be true to some extent, though surely mitigated by kind aspects from Venus and Jupiter if present. It’s a difficult aspect to live with otherwise I think.

  9. Hello Marjorie, I have long been interested in the rumour that the Queen Mother was the result of a liaison between her father, the 14th Earl of Strathmore and a French cook. Any astrological pointers for this ?

    • The Queen Mother famously didn’t get on with Wallis Simpson – an American socialite for whom Edward V111 renounced his throne.

      From all accounts, Wallis referred to the Queen Mother (then Duchess of York) as ‘the little French cook’ – implying she was small fat and frumpy unlike her svelte fashionable self. Well the Queen Mother had the last laugh. On becoming Queen she denied Wallis Simpson/Duchess of Windsor the style and title of HRH – thus condemning her to remain a commoner.

      That being said, there was some delay in registering the birth of the Queen Mother – implying she was illegitimate though accepted by the Countess of Strathmore as her husband’s child. I doubt there is any truth in the rumour – any such scandal would have ruined her chances of marrying into the Royal Family.

    • Sounds very unlikely and how could it be concealed? Different if it was the Countess who had had an affair. Regarding late birth registrations I think that wasn’t uncommon in those days. A distant cousin of my husband (long deceased) said her birth was registered on the wrong date by the au pair for some bizarre reason.

      • Yes that does seem unlikely. Outside of adoption, of whom is the mother is itself — obvious. It’s the father’s identity that might be in question. Here in the USA, we have some trashy TV shows where the host brings together the woman and who she claims is the father. DNA is used to rule in or out the male parent. Sometimes it is hilarious due to the mother on different episodes pointing to different men as the father. There was one child with FIVE potential fathers. Turns out it was none of the five!

        It was much more likely that Wallis and the Q Mum were just a bad personality match and that creates endless snarkiness, especially combined with class and privilege to snipe over.

      • Josie. If the film ‘Duchess’, relating to the Duchess of Devonshire, is anything to go by, an illegitimate child became the ‘ward’ of an aristocratic father and taken into the father’s household, whether the mother liked it or not. It was the only way to protect a child and ensure he/she had a place in society.

        The Duchess (an ancestor of Diana) lost her own child in this way but still had to accept the Duke’s children in the nursery. I suppose they all had to be very careful as to who married whom to avoid incest.

        NB. The wife supposedly went travelling abroad for six months – though I would guess most knew why.

  10. Andrew’s Chiron is conjunct his Sun in the 7th. Which could mean a wound from a missing bond/partner never quite healing. His Sun is in Pisces ruler of the twelfth house hidden feelings. Although they have been rumours about his sexuality, which could also fit this Chiron/ Sun conjunction, opposite Pluto; which crosses Aquarius and Pisces with the elements of these two signs being air and water – mist; with a need to live in an orderly tidy world ( Pluto in Virgo). Confusing hidden feelings! Also Fergie his ex- partner appears to be only his true friend. I have always thought he may have given her permission to have that affair.

  11. A little hard to read as I have the Sun opp. Pluto (also conj. Jupiter) in my chart. I don’t think I am a bully, but certainly determined and unwavering when I am motivated.

    • There’s always an evolved or upside to all influences – and a more primitive version. Maybe you arrived with or along the way learnt more self-awareness.

  12. “Andrew appears to have had Pluto’s bullying streak from early in his life – for some it takes adulthood to become empowered, however imperfectly.”

    Ugh, I only *began* to get a grip on my Pluto as I turned 30. Before then I was just knocked around by it and always suffering on some intimate level. Really not great. Lots of wasted years. I know Marjorie has previously said it takes a lot of people until middle age to integrate it, even partially.

    Small planet, big demands.

    • It took me until my forties. Pluto conjunct Sun near the IC and Sun/Moon midpoint in Scorpio on my North/South nodes midpoint. Also Moon in Capricorn for good luck. The only consolation was I was not born Royal or Andrew as I do have some common sense!

      • For women it can take to their forties – after the midlife crisis of 38 to 42 and that’s when you/everyone gets the tr Pluto opposition natal Pluto.

  13. I love your royal posts – it doesn’t feel like overkill at all. Very interesting indeed – I had never heard of Lord Porchester!

  14. I hope this view from across the pond isn’t too controversial and shocking.

    Your Royals are now figureheads, many of them having earned public respect and affection. Especially the gracious Queen. For a UK based site highlighting personalities, life experiences, and newsworthy events, fascination with the Royals makes perfect sense.

    A certain amount of psychopathy is needed to establish any monarchial dynasty. The premise that magically blessed DNA entitles one to rule a nation, or even to personally represent it and have all government done in one’s name, is inherently anti-social. It’s the ultimate racism after all. I think every founder of a royal dynasty would agree with Machiavelli. He concluded that sometimes, what is best for the State contradicts conventional morality that limits the aggressiveness of the rest of the population.

    If someone told me that because of my DNA, the elected government would be “my government” that acts in my name, giving me a speech to read about what “my government” promises to do, my Mars in Scorpio would be flattered. But from my Aquarius Sun, I’d renounce that as a bizarre fantasy. I couldn’t abide anyone trying to make such a weird idea real. But growing up surrounded by some weird ideas can make them seem normal, natural and totally real.

    Conquest to seize power by war or revolution, using a sword to put down challengers not just for ceremony. That’s all long in the past for today’s ruling family. But it’s no surprise that these entitled attitudes can pop up again now and then in later generations. Although most likely a matter of the individual’s chart and upbringing now. In a different social class, the spoiled son would have found some other way to exploit his Mum’s well earned status, at the expense of compassion and goodwill.

    I think Roger Waters’s lyrics for “Dogs” are insightful, about generational cycles of abuse in the family being rampant among the ruling class.

    Not to say that the U.S. is free of corruption in the upper class. But at least our Constitution prohibits it from being established as a political dynasty based solely on birth. To have repeated generations of a political family, each generation needs to buy, subvert or manipulate their way to win elections anew!

    I agree with Ann that in that top-percent class, whatever the local Constitution might say, marriage is often a pragmatic alliance. “Nothing personal, it’s just business.” If the spouses actually love one another, they’re quite lucky. The French even institutionalized it, with official acknowledgement and apartment provided for the mistresses of more than one King Louis.

    Today’s the first time I saw any mention of the rumor of the Queen having had a secret liaison.

  15. “Apologies for Royal overkill and flogging a dead horse” No apologies needed from me, I am fascinated by the Royals, both the current lot & ones from history.
    Its as though their human frailties are magnified due to the position they have. We can learn so much from them, such as the importance of leaving a job on good terms, as you never know when you might need them again (looking at you Harry & Meghan) Or how to be resilient & overcome problems in trying times (thank you The Queen)

    Always love when you write about them!

  16. If you can’t face your own faults and imperfections and own them, you can’t really grow. Years ago I reluctantly ended a relationship with someone who had a Sun/Mercury/Uranus/Pluto stellium in Virgo. Being with them was like being suffocated, you felt consumed by their never-ending drama. They could never be wrong, it was always someone else’s fault and they made the same bad choices over and over again and never learned. If you discovered they had lied, they would blame you for finding out and then accuse you of being disloyal….My Libra side found them exhausting.

  17. It strikes me that the whole of the British aristocracy is historically so intermarried that genetic similarities are bound to occur between otherwise disparate members – eg Prince Andrew and Lord Porchester or Prince Harry and James Hewitt.

    It is surely also the case that a person can be drawn to someone who shares family traits and/or similar genes even though there is no obvious family connection.

    Personally, as a believer in reincarnation, I am of the opinion that we are drawn to those we were once close to in a previous life. We may even reincarnate in the same circles – destined to meet again and again.

    I certainly don’t believe that, once married, either the Queen or Prince Philip had ‘liaisons’ outside that marriage. Close friendships yes, romantic liaisons no. That particular generation simply didn’t (on the whole).

    • I think extramarital affairs in aristocratic families was more accepted because it was generally assumed that marriages were arranged to secure the bloodlines and these affairs mostly didn’t lead to break up of marriages.

      There was a 60 Minute special on the British aristocracy shortly after Charles and Diana married and one aristocratic expert said that most aristocratic marriages follow the same pattern.

      • Also, in aristocracy the marriage was mainly for reasons of economy, politics and status, adultery was a socially sanctioned safety valve especially in a time when divorce was near impossible and deeply scandalous.

        • I knew someone who was friendly with a minor married-into-the-Royals type who said that aristo marriages were about producing an heir and a spare and then both going off to suit themselves and having affairs elsewhere which didn’t seem to matter.

          • Heir and a spare. Ha Ha. So with William and Kate having children, that makes Harry a flat tire?

            With not being (realistically) in reach of being crowned, would that account for Harry’s petulance with the Royal family situation? Sidelined and all?

    • Liz – the aristocracy made a collective effort to keep their marriages going, and there were strict protocols to ensure private life remained private. It was long accepted that both men and women had affairs, and stayed married. Divorce was so difficult, and a huge taboo. Marriage, in astrology, is a Libran 7th house matter – alliances, and also the house of ‘open enemies’ – which has always amused me! For married women, children following the ‘heir and a spare’ who had a different father were simply absorbed into the existing family. People often married very young, before the first Saturn return, and were not always well suited either.

      Further down the ‘class’ scale, you’ll find many secret bigamous marriages as a way round the divorce stigma. Also, people would pretend to be married, but actually just lived together. There were numerous unofficial adoptions, and children growing up thinking an aunt or grandmother was their mother. I’ve found lots of examples of all of these things in my own family tree.

      Of course, some people have had faithful, happy marriages. But there are long, happy marriages that have weathered the storms of infidelity too.

  18. Interesting about Lord Portchester. I recall noting in a previous post, Andrew’s Uranus is conjunct the Queen’s Neptune indicating that Uranus was transiting the latter around the time he was conceived/born. Maybe just the surprise of motherhood a second time around; but perhaps also indicative of an unexpected romantic liaison?

    That said, during the Jubilee I was reading an article about how The Queen made corgis popular. Her favourite, Susan was born 20th Feb 1944, died in early 1959. I wonder whether with the birthdates so close whether she saw Andreww as the reincarnation of it. Outlandish but not out of the question.

  19. Interesting article, Marjorie, especially touching on Andrew.

    I read an anecdote on Twitter the other day (during the Jubilee celebrations) about a person who used to be Royal Protection Officer for Princess Anne in the 1970s, when she was training for the Olympics. He later moved on to other roles. Many years later (in the 90s), he was at a pub when the Princess Anne and Princes Edward and Andrew visited the same pub unannounced. Princess Anne recognised him and invited him over for a drink, but apparently Prince Andrew was put off by it for which Princess Anne publicly upbraided him. But then I am biased. She is my favourite Royal; hardworking and above all, keeping quiet about her opinions, the most important quality of being a royal.

    As an aside, my Sun is approximately quinqunx Pluto by about six degrees. Is six degrees in-orb for a quincunx and if so, what does it suggest about me?

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