How similar is Prince Harry to the comic genius Peter Sellers, star of Dr Strangelove, The Pink Panther, Being There and many other hits? On the face of it not remotely. And yet there are fascinating parallels in their lives and astrology.
Sellers, born 8 September 1925 6am (from memory) Southsea, England, was a Sun Mars in Virgo opposition Uranus. Harry is a Sun Virgo square Mars which is conjunct Uranus. Both have Moon in Taurus and Venus in Libra as well as Saturn in Scorpio. Both have Neptune in the 12th. Different houses from different birth times obviously but there is a striking likeness in their charts.
Sellers was born into a variety theatre family and carried on stage at two weeks old. Constant touring and upheaval throughout his childhood caused him much unhappiness and he was often left alone. He maintained a very close relationship with his mother, which his friend Spike Milligan later considered unhealthy for a grown man. One biographer portrayed him as a childish, neurotic, mother’s-boy bully who abused drugs and sex as he struggled to cope with fame. On screen he was hilarious but on set when filming and off screen he was an unfunny, volatile, grudge-bearing obsessive who threatened to alienate even his most loyal friends and admirers.
Sellers was a deeply unhappy man whom friends reckoned was certifiably unbalanced in his latter years as he careered from one bad relationship/marriage to the next eventually dying at 54 of a heart attack. He never sought psychological help which is a pity since it could have relieved some of his stress.
Quotes from him are hauntingly anguished: “If you ask me to play myself, I will not know what to do. I do not know who or what I am.”
“A person can destroy me with two words. It can just be the way they say them, the inflection.”
Not only are the astrological correspondences fascinating so is the fact that both were born into families with a constricting and unsettled lifestyle and both had strong attachment to their mothers.
PS. Non-astro thoughts about Harry’s soul-baring. There is a stage during therapy when most become quite evangelical and want to spread the word. Their proselytizing tends to sound forced or even manic and while therapy can for some be a godsend a sanctimonious lecture from someone who has seen the light does grate. There is also a stage of blaming everything on early environment/parenting, which in the consulting room gives a necessary expression to buried resentment. But that is not where the process ends and is not helped by public shaming sessions. If therapy does its job then a more mature personality emerges, who accepts an imperfect life and imperfect parents, and takes responsibility for getting their own act and life together. Endless blaming backwards is childish. It’s also not unusual in split families for children to idealise one parent and hate the other. It’s easier seeing a good-cop bad-cop set up than accepting that both parents will have had their flaws.
Batten down the hatches!
Harry’s next outing is on 21st May with Oprah on Apple.
In his podcast, he talks of feeling helpless through 3 key events. The fact is, in those situations, he was helpless.
As a basically practical person, it’s natural that he expresses himself through action.
When his loved one was attacked, he took action to protect her and in so doing, himself.
Interestingly, Meghan has a real need to express herself too. Royal life with all its restrictions was never going to be possible for her. It must have come as a great shock when she found she couldn’t cope.
Recently they added to their staff a Director of global communications, with two more assistants. They have no intention of being silent and why should they?
But if they want positive reaction and for people to hear their views, they should drop the personal stuff, stop criticising others, realise their own privilege, and use the term mental health correctly, not as a catch all for mental problems and illness.
In the podcast, what Harry said was pretty anodyne and already in the public arena. The press react, it’s their job, so it’s up to him to take responsibility not only for what he says, but how he says it.
As a professional communicator, it’s time he learnt to stop inflaming and provoking the press. He knows more than anyone what they are like. It’s counterproductive and stupid to keep feeding them. It hurts themselves, their children, their families.
Let’s hope they both learn soon.
@Zita, very true and absolutely agree. It takes more than having a voice and platform to be a truely great communicator, and if he doesn’t have it naturally he needs to learn and cultivate it. My grandmother used to always say, ‘It’s not what you say, it’s how you say it’. He needs to learn how to use his platform correctly so he inspires positively and effectively, that even the media will fall (or fall back) in love with him. Just saying!
I know many of you consider my opinions harsh, but I am tired of Britons being perceived as a cold and emotionless people. I was always quite fond of H and it is sad though not surprising that he has allowed his wife, who doesn’t even know the difference between the Commonwealth and the Empire to trash the Queen’s greatest legacy.
Whatever H’s feelings on walking behind his mother’s coffin, it us about time he grew up. He is hitting forty after all. My husband and his brother only found out about their much loved mother’s death after the funeral. l know that for a long time my husband was bitter about it. So there is no right or wrong way about these things. At least H was allowed to honour his mother .
As time goes on you realise that there is no such thing as perfect parenting. Only fashions change. And H might come to appreciate that when his kids reject his values and ideas, as at some point they will inevitably do.
Doesn’t everyone have a dysfunctional family to some degree or another? While H might be parroting all the psychiatric babble speak that has come his way, it should be remembered that much of this is done as revenge against his dad.
Apparently they thought that they were entitled to a lifetime’s supply of the readies at his dad’s expense who told him quite clearly that he couldn’t afford to carry them indefinitely if they weren’t going to be full-time working royals.
With Doria getting out the yoga mats at Oprah’s home well before the wedding and Oprah attending the wedding and Gayle King attending the baby shower, and secret accounts set up in Ohio, well before they intimated that they were leaving, it is obvious that they have behaved in an extremely underhand way, and yes, I think this was planned before the wedding.
And as M made all sorts of promises, that she never intended to keep, with H cheering her on every step of the way it is obvious that we as a nation have been well and truly shafted!
Everyone has emotional pain and anguish at some point in their lives or quite a few times. But to be quite honest I find the insistence that we all have to wear our hearts on our sleeves to overcome mental health problems: utter rubbish! You don’t have to vocalise every feeling, or every sense of injustice. The fact that you have thought these things is enough. Imagine what would happen if this was transposed to say committing acts of violence, nobody would think it was a good thing at all. Yet saying what you think when you think it can have terrible consequences. Which is why such things can be inferred to as hate crimes. So in a sense H and M have been committing hate crimes not just against the Royal Family, but against the British people.
Mars tends to activate what it touches and Virgos perhaps rather unfairly are often perceived as judgemental of others often pointing out personal failings that are not necessarily indicative of the whole person. Their biggest weakness is a longing for perfection which inevitably they are doomed not to find in this world or other people. Not surprisingly this tendency to have unfair expectations of others tends to grate on the rest of humanity from time to time. In Prince Harry’s case the situation is not helped by that Saturn in Scorpio which at its worst can be cold, manipulative, cruel, secretive and underhand. The media and many people tend to portray Harry as a sort of stooge in the various strategies that Meghan Markle has used to advance her career and profile. I suspect the reality is a lot more complicated than it appears. Relationships are two way streets and I feel he uses it as a means to play out what he feels is a personal betrayal he has suffered at the hands of the RF and the Palace over the handling of his mother. Unfortunately using personal trauma as a weapon to extract revenge is ultimately self destructive. I can understand his need to break from his past but to move on requires him to let go and to forgive or at the very least understand the things that have made others behave in the way they did.
Hugh
Prince Charles is a scorpio – with mercury there too- and his saturn is in virgo- So how does this fit in with their dynamic with Harry – what fo you see –
Mercury in scorpio can be quite harsh in personal relationships- I know from experience
By the way i do not believe Harry is a stooge – it is just an easy way for the media to dismiss his conners -I listened to the podcast – and he came off as thoughtful –
@Linda did you miss the message from another poster down below? You keep writing like you know Harry & Meghan.
It seems you are doing a lot of projection. Does your personal life reflects some unhappiness and wishes that have gone unfulfilled? If not then you would have not written your two posts. If you are not present witnessing Harry & Meghan’s activities then you nor anyone can be right in making assertions. They are just mere speculations. I personally like when the talk here is based on astrology more than negative opinions that hardly reflect the truth. Meghan and Harry are making decisions and they are in their own journey. Whatever it is throwing dirt at them generates Karma- how will you like someone throwing dirt at you in spite of your best efforts?
They are doing the best they can with what they know. It is easy to try a shot to figure other people’s lives than our own.
It is, but we all do it. Personally I don’t have a dog in this particular race, I tend to feel bad for all parties involved but people are allowed an opinion. I plead guilty to being revolted by Piers Morgan and want to throw stuff every time I see MangoMan or Ted Cruz but that doesn’t mean I have an unhappy, unfulfilled personal life.
Not Mangoman, please!!! Mangies are delicious and versatile fruit.
May I suggest Tangman as an alternative? Same colour, over-sweetened and toxic to health.
“Man hands on misery to man” as Philip Larkin put it.
Sadly I suspect that Prince Harry is not going to break that chain.
Just reading that the BBC are postponing airing their Panorama about Martin Bashir’s interview with Diana back in 1995. I’d forgotten Diana used that interview to air her dirty laundry and try to get back at the Royal Family.
Harry really can’t see there’s more than one chain he needs to break, can he?
This is so true. I can’t help but feel that my mother passed on her miseries to you (without meaning to).
She was strongly distrustful of men (even though she married one for love) and now I am distrustful of both genders (both have major personlity flaws).
If Harry were not Diana’s son and not part of the royal family with privilege no one would care. He’s a child and an adult of privilege and this is the only way he knows how to earn money for his family by continually promoting the trauma.
He should seek therapy with your wife or family on your his own but their life trauma is his bread and butter. He has made a pact with the devil and will need to continue this drama for the rest of his life.
I’m in therapy and on medication today, thank God I never have to tell my story to co-workers, peers, etc. My life drama stays with my therapist, my siblings have have not sought treatment and still dealing with the demons of our childhood.
Marjorie your predictions about his future with income for him and Megan make sense. The astrology is dead on. I hope they find peace and happiness. You cannot play the victim forever at some point their is healing. I know because I have a different perspective on why my parents made poor choices.
Many people share their traumas as a way of healing others, – some do not – it is a personal decision to be respected- I respect your decision and I respect Prince Harry too,
If Prince Harry encourages others to get help and Prince William has spoken on this too- why the critics – Silence for many can be a way of continuing trauma for generations
Back to Pince Harry talk,
TRUTH – He lost his mother at a young age and was made to march behind her coffin in front of millions of people with his brother.
His father’s mistress was a his main priority before and after the death of Harry’s mom
All the photos/ videos of Princess Diana and her children showed love – hugging – laughing smiling – and both her sons show that with their devotion to their children and wives.
I do not recall images of Prince Charles as such – and he was probably hurt as a child with not getting enough affection.
Time for people to stop fantasizing negative thoughts – let the royal family heal themselves.
Do get yourself informed. The Royals were trying to protect the boys by keeping them at Balmoral away from prying eyes. It was the rancid UK public who kicked up about them being out of sight.
Diana had multiple affairs after the marriage broke down, some with married men and she was expert at manipulating the media to be there when she wanted publicity. She used the children as part of her war against the Windsors.
Charles is undoubtedly an awkward sod who had a ropey upbringing and two keep-calm-and-carry-on parents. But he’s hardly the villain he’s made out to be. Both were flawed human beings from dysfunctional backgrounds – so why does one have to be wonderful and the other a total write off.
I am not uninformed – and I did not call Prince Charles – evil – but her sons have a deep love for their mother – and why are not people leaving that alone – – The criticisms of Prince Harry on this site have been awful for years now -as if people want him to be unhappy – I think he will surprise you.
I wonder if any of the above ‘users’ have ever taken the time to look into the severe damage long term use of ‘weed’does to young users????especially the very much stronger drugs in use today.
I watched a very pleasant youth over the space of 4 years smoking weed, become a paranoid headcase. Luckily my friends guided their smitten daughter out of his clutches.
While not everyone is so badly affected, an awful lot are.
@Irene Absolutely agree
This is a fascinating article and has emboldened me to ask a question that has been in the back of my mind for a while: are there any parallels in the charts between Meghan Markle and Eva Peron? They both seem to be driven women with political ambitions and desire for fame.
Sorry, no. EvaP was a Sun Mars in Taurus square Moon Saturn in Leo – v hard; with a pushy Jupiter Pluto in Cancer
I’ve listened to Harry’s podcast conversation with Dax Shepard yesterday. It’s respectful, informative and quite entertaining. I highly recommend it! I don’t recognize your analysis of Harry in what I’ve actually heard.
Julie D-
i just listened to it now – mostly reading the various texts here and reaction to my posts – and I agree with you on the podcast – and he was respectful of both his parents and his hopes to help people
I can’t bear it. Car-crash Harry! Sad!
Any indication that Harry or Meghan may step back and be quiet for a time?
I think they should pick one or two issues they wanted to focus on, then go away for a year or so to learn all about it and understand the real issues and causes, gain knowledge & practical experience. Then came back to the media with a substantial and realistic plan of practical actions they will take to make a difference, based on what they have learnt. Then I think they would be taken more seriously & gain some credibility.
This nonsense, meaningless, word-salad speak for 2 mins, followed by hours about how much they have personally suffered in their palace with their millions of inherited wealth, makes them look like self-centered children not humanitarians.
I think they could turn it around if they talk less about themselves and their perceived slights and gained some substance.
The insanity of it all is that Harry does have two areas of real knowledge – one was with wounded veterans and the other conservation in Africa.
One gathers he’s not the sharpest tool in the box so relatively limited in his talents but Invictus was doing a huge amount of good.
I see you did write about how they would fare in Africa https://dev.star4cast.com/prince-harry-and-meghan-a-possible-africa-idyll/
Sadly their last Africa documentary ended up being all about them instead of highlighting the charity.
interesting article in Forbes which expresses more eloquently what I was trying to say!
https://www.forbes.com/sites/guymartin/2021/05/14/in-california-its-good-business-why-prince-harry-and-meghan-markle-wont-stop-talking-about-themselves/?sh=490092340ee9
All very interesting comments! But I think M is key to all his problems. Indeed she is a bit like a character in one of Agatha Christie’s mystery novels who manipulated gullible people into murdering, with the idea that the world would be better off without them. It is the very last Poirot and has the private detective murder the instigator knowing that if he doesn’t the man will continue manipulating his victims forever more. It is a great story!
Now of course M isn’t a person who would do that, but she is manipulative and certainly opportunistic and isn’t averse to letting the truth get in the way of a good story.. I do sort of wonder if she alienated her first husband from his family. There are many women that do that sort of thing, so that they can stay in control. Such actions can cause a lot of heartache.
I have a personal message from mrs Meghan Windsor Markle for you:
You don’t know me at all, we have never met and yet you attribute all kinds of negative character traits to me. How do you think that makes me feel? How would you feel when half of the world has a strong opinion about your character, based on tabloid articles? I am also a creative and imaginative person. I am a perfectionist and I have a strong character, why are you so angry about that? You do seem to have a problem with strong women in the spotlight. Why does that tell the world about YOU?
PS maybe none of the above is true, and I am sipping champagne in my jacuzzi and laughing my heart out about all the losers in the world who are increasing my market value just by contributing to the gossip
I’ve looked for Peter Sellers’ mother’s date of birth, but so far no luck.
What’s interesting about Harry’s “image” of his mother, as Barb says, is that it resonates with a family pattern on his mother’s side of the family. Diana’s mother left her, and her siblings, when Diana was a little girl. This was because Frances Shand Kydd (her mother) was forced to give up her children during a bitter divorce, and subsequent remarriage. Diana found this very painful, unsurprisingly.
Frances Shand Kydd (20 January 1936) has Jupiter, Moon and Venus in Sagittarius square Neptune in Virgo. Diana has Jupiter in Aquarius square Neptune in Scorpio. Harry has Jupiter conjunct Neptune. Huge dreams or huge illusions are part of this picture.
All three also have a mutable Mars. Frances SK has Pisces Mars conjunct Saturn, sextile Uranus. Diana had Virgo Mars conjunct Pluto, widely conjunct Uranus in Leo. Harry has Sagittarian Mars widely conjunct Uranus. At a very basic astro level, you could say each individual took unusual actions (Mars/Uranus) in their life paths, and looked for their notions of freedom. There will be other patterns I’m sure, but these stood out.
If Peter Sellers’ mother’s dob emerges, it would be interesting to see if a pattern emerges there too.
Lady Fermoy, Diana’s grandmother, testified against her own daughter, Frances, Diana’s mother, in the custody battle which Earl Spencer won.
At the time of the Charles/Diana marriage, Lady Fermoy and the Queen Mother were said to have been instrumental in promoting it.
Diana wasn’t on speaking terms with most of her family including her mother, at one time or another during her marriage.
Marjorie, it is very sad to see H’s attachment to the IMAGE of his mother – not seeing her in 3D with all her flaws and weaknesses. It is also apparent that he has not even considered how her upbringing influenced her and the choices she made in her life: all blame is laid solely on his father’s side. I find that astonishing and not ENLIGHTENED in anyway. And that for me is why he should shut his trap now. He does not seem to realise that he is a student at this point. If he cannot at least see that until he can weigh up both sides of the equation – the equation that brought him into being – then he has a very long way to go and he ought to be cocooning himself “far from the madding crowd” in LA or anywhere else for that matter, so that he can make the necessary breakthroughs. It will, sadly be a long time for him to find that place and I don’t think he truly wants to, neither do I think, does his wife. They are each enabling the malevolence in each other and are exploiting the current societal waves of disenchantment and anger at authority figures – very destructive energies. I have never really been a fan of Kate because I do think there was some calculation on the side of her family but I am now thankful that W did try to heal himself through that route. It has obviously been stabilising for him and he seems to have created a wonderful family life out of it. People have said that W was able to see his mother more wholly as he was a little bit older, so perhaps that has made him a bit more realistic. I don’t see H as ever really growing up, unfortunately and the infantile behaviour he has displayed since “leaving” gives me no hope ie the way he is trying to “stuff everything in front of him into his mouth” (just as an infant does) without stopping to think if it is healthy for him or not (as an adult does). I’ve no doubt he will embarrass himself a great deal more. I mentioned on another post that I was stunned by how M never once said thank you for anything in the O interview – not for the opportunities she was given by the RF, the way the British people tried to welcome her, the doors that were opened to her – nothing! Now I see that he is exactly the same! They will not last in LA because if it’s one thing that I have learnt during my time living in the US is that Americans like to hear gratitude and praising all day, everyday! The people they are “working” with now will not take kindly to them not being able to say thank you for anything at all, their ingratitude will be their undoing.
@ Barb, of course Harry blames his father’s side because from the very beginning Diana was basically a sheep led to the slaughter.
She entered the marriage completely oblivious to her true role which was to give birth to the heir and a spare while Charles was already in love with Camilla and he had no intention of having a real marriage with Diana.
What’s worse is that everyone knew what was happening except Diana and they all accepted the arrangement while she looked like a fool.
As for Harry idealizing Diana, she has been dead for more than two-thirds of Harry’s life so of course he is going to hold on to as many positive memories of her as possible.
Also people seem to get angry at people who leave dysfunctional families and I am one of the so I understand why Harry made the decision to move away from his toxic relatives.
Roderick Diana’s older sister dated Charles before she did so I am not sure that Diana was completely unaware of who he was and what it entailed. I personally cannot imagine at 19 agreeing to marry someone my sister had been involved with. But what I really was referring to as Jane said and expanded on above, is that those of us who really want to heal from our dysfunction will look at both sides of our heritage – we might ask ourselves what is it that my mother was trying to find or run away from that brought her to my father or vice versa. Those kinds of questions help the growth process. Without looking at both stories you will only be one-dimensional. And as you see above, Diana’s childhood would have had an effect on her children too,not just their father’s.
It’s also worth considering the role played by Harry’s maternal great grandmother, Baroness Fermoy, and his paternal great grandmother, the Queen Mother in this story. Lady Fermoy advised Diana not to marry into the Royal Family. She was a very close friend and lady in waiting to the Queen Mother, and did not think the RF would suit Diana at all. She was right.
Lady Fermoy had Mars in Virgo, square Gemini Pluto/Nodes. This ties into the Queen Mother’s Mars in Gemini conjunct Neptune (!), opposing Saturn and square a Virgo Black Moon Lilith. Their reported friendship and long association must have been more like “frenemies” underneath all the protocols I suspect.
This bubbling brew of mutable ancestral trouble aspects Harry’s Neptune in Sagittarius exactly. Meghan also has Neptune at 22 Sagittarius. Diana was not speaking to Lady Fermoy at the time of her death in 1993. Now Harry is making things uncomfortable for his own grandmother.
Old sins cast long shadows as they say. At some point, someone has the opportunity to change old patterns in families. But this will be much harder work than either Harry or Meghan realise at this particular point in the saga.
Diana’s grandmother was a lady in waiting to the Queen Mother. Her father was equerry to King George VI and to Queen Elizabeth II. She was born on the Sandringham estate. She was an aristocrat. I can’t imagine anyone in that circumstance was oblivious about what was in store, unless they were living with a brain injury.
Why,thank you PC and Jane, for parting the clouds and beaming the light down for me and I mean that. Meghan has been trying so very hard to convince everyone that she is similar to Diana and now I see that the only thing they share is that they both apparently knew very little about the family and situation they were marrying into. It certainly makes sense now that Meghan would make that ridiculous claim. Thank you cause it was baffling me as to why she was trying to sell that schtick!
My impression is the public is as gullible as any in idealising one and denigrating the other when it comes to celebs in the news. The other side of Diana had a much darker face and she did grow up in that aristo ambience so she would know what she was getting into. For a balancer see:
https://www.standard.co.uk/hp/front/spiteful-and-neurotic-the-most-savage-attack-on-diana-ever-7197009.html
Absolutely true.. Americans r v strict about good manners n gratitude is foremost most impt…as a Indian it’s a shock as Indians hate manners n find it deceiving but for Americans it’s must n so inter racial marriages have sore thumb where relatives topic begin
Thanks Marjorie – so fascinating. I see that Harry is talking about “emotionally distant” parenting, and family patterns. While this is true, from his perspective at least, it also represents a style of parenting that prevailed for generations, notably amongst the middle and upper classes. Not only was/is there the tradition of sending small children (usually boys I think) to “prep” school at young ages, followed by boarding school, there were/are nannies employed to take care of children.
Emotional distance is built into the class system, and society’s history. Working class children generally left education early, and went out to work by the time they were teenagers. A very young servant might not see their family more than once a year, if at all. Young Victorian children might be working by the age of ten or even younger, having been left with child minders as little ones so that their parents could work and earn a living. Indeed, it was 1972 before school leaving age was raised to 16. It’s hard to find anyone who had what might be considered an ideal upbringing.
Peter Sellers’ son Michael said, in an interview with The Scotsman in 2002:
“Friends wonder, when bad things happen to me, how I can just shrug them off. Well, my childhood gives me my sense of perspective. Dad did some horrendous things to me and my sister Sarah. I’ve been hardened by them, but I try not to be too cynical.”
We’ve discussed family patterns in astrology here before. Both Prince Harry and Peter Sellers are partly a product of their own family backgrounds and patterns – yet we do, I believe, also have the ability, eventually, to choose our response. Clearly, some are much more damaged than others – but therapy and reflection can help people work positively and effectively towards maturity.
‘Emotional distance is built into the class system’
Yes absolutely and the British Aristocracy were and are an odd lot, emotionally speaking. Traditionally there is little fidelity in marriage and a tendency to pack children off to boarding schools where they either sink or swim. Often these children when young, had a closer relationship with their nanny or governess than they did with their own mother. There’s a growing support movement for ex-boarding school ‘survivors’ in the U.K. and a book, ‘The Making of Them’, the name of the author escapes me, which details the negative effects of the private boarding school experience on those who for whatever reason struggled to fit into the system or were abused or bullied. The system itself was tailor-made for the thick-skinned and designed to toughen boys up for the benefit of serving the British Empire. Of course, these institutions were also havens for child abuse, as it was the case up until comparatively recent times that there was little or no vetting of staff. This was the case with my own boarding school experience – in fact the chaplain was a groomer and abused several girls before being discovered and ‘let go’ quietly. Fortunately I had left this godawful place a term before he was employed. My brother had an appalling experience. Several masters were obviously dodgy and the boys were made to stand naked under the ice cold showers for the benefit of the house master. I believe my brother’s experience damaged him, damaged his development and worsened his mental health. This was in the 1970s, mind – a fairly grim decade for children, it has to be said.
Poor old Charles was sent to Gordonstoun in Scotland, one of the grimmest boarding schools in existence and nicknamed ‘Colditz in Kilts’.
“traditionally there is little fidelity in marriage” – It has always intrigued/amused me that the traditional meanings of the Seventh House as the house of marriage also includes “open enemies”. The romantic notions of marriage we have today have evolved gradually over centuries. Marriage has a strongly pragmatic element, even now.
Astrology gives us the Fifth House for “romance” and children, the house of the Sun. Libra/Venus ruling the Seventh suggests law to me, as well as partnership. Perhaps the mixture of partners and “open enemies” might stem from the ancient classification of the Libran constellation as the “claws of the Scorpion”? Venus also rules the Second House, adding a financial and property based theme to marriage. Historically, marriages were often shorter too – owing to wars, disease, and significant levels of death in childbirth for women. Average life expectancy being about 55-60 in Europe for centuries will also have shortened marriages.
Reading the BBC article about the podcast interview, it seems like Harry is making some progress. However he may just be parroting words he’s hearing from his therapist or others. His chart is taking a hammering at the moment with natal Saturn hit by the Uranus-Saturn square in Taurus-Aqua; while his Sun is being undermined by Neptune in Pisces. If ever there was a set of transits that might get you out of the mire, these would be them.
While I don’t think Meghan is good for him, I think living in California and away from the Royals is helping him grow – cutting the apron strings as they used to say. Trouble is, if he is growing, I think he’ll outgrow Meghan very quickly. Maybe she is better at keeping it quiet but I don’t get any sense that she works on her psychological issues but instead goes with shallow mantras like “be kind”.
As for Harry’s fixation with Diana. It must be hard to do anything but idealise her – if she’s ever mentioned it’s always in glowing terms. I suspect it would be much harder if she were still alive and he was confronting her behaviour regularly. I dread to think how Twitter would view her!
@GnarlyDude “As for Harry’s fixation with Diana. It must be hard to do anything but idealise her – if she’s ever mentioned it’s always in glowing terms. I suspect it would be much harder if she were still alive and he was confronting her behaviour regularly. I dread to think how Twitter would view her!”
I think that is absolutely spot on. My mother had a very difficult relationship with her mother but adored her father. Her parents divorced when my mother was in her very early teens and she suffered dreadfully from the stigma of coming from a divorced family (this was in the late 1930s). The reason my grandmother divorced my grandfather was because he had a relationship with another woman, and not unreasonably, my grandmother wanted out of her marriage. My mother never forgave her for taking her away from her father and reducing her, in her own eyes, in terms of social status and financial security. I don’t think it ever occurred to her to try and understand my grandmother’s actions. My grandfather died at the age of 52 when my mother was 21. I never heard my mother say a bad word about him, she idolised him. She never had a good word for my grandmother who lived to be 84. It was my father though that I think suffered the most. No male could measure up to the saintly status of my deceased grandfather who died before he had the chance to blot his copybook with an adult daughter.
What a fascinating article, Marjorie.
“There is a stage during therapy when most become quite evangelical and want to spread the word. Their proselytizing tends to sound forced or even manic and while therapy can for some be a godsend a sanctimonious lecture from someone who has seen the light does grate.”
Yes, I have had the exact same thoughts about Harry and his therapy. I remember going through this phase myself when I had therapy in my early 30s. I look back and shudder at some of my behaviour towards my parents at that time. And as you say, sharing this process publicly is potentially very damaging to all parties and will merely limit his psychological growth. I believe Jung (and yes, I know he was highly flawed himself) drew the analogy between the therapeutic process and the alchemical ‘opus’ – ie the changes required for psychological growth need to take place within a sealed and sacred space – ie an alchemical vessel. This is not happening here – there is no sealed space because everything is spilling all over the place and creating chaos and drama. He will not find healing this way.
Some years ago I saw a documentary about Peter Sellers and what came across more than anything was how deeply unhappy he was. His idealisation of his mother caused untold misery in his relationships with women, and like a true Venus in Libra man, he was drawn to very beautiful women. (Beauty is so important to we Librans – we are easily seduced and enchanted by it). I remember the actress, Brit Eckland describing how Sellers kept a sort of shrine to his dead mother in their bedroom, a framed photo, surrounded by flowers and other keepsakes. During an argument she picked up this photo and threw it against the wall and it smashed into many pieces. She said he was scrabbling on the floor to retrieve the broken glass, even though it was way beyond repair. And somehow this incident was symbolic for her, because it really demonstrated how hopeless he was as a husband to her. In many ways, Sellers never grew beyond that broken little boy that he was and eventually I think it contributed to his early death.
“And as you say, sharing this process publicly is potentially very damaging to all parties and will merely limit his psychological growth.”
Yes, this was my thought here, too. My first thought reading about the latest Harry incident and upcoming series produced by Oprah was, “Who is the quack who thinks this is all right?” Now, I honestly love Oprah, but she has made some horrendous decisions in promoting psychologists in the past. I think this is ONE field she should absolutely stay out of. Wonder if this shows on her chart, too….
@ Virgoflake and Solaia, I believe he shared that with the public because everyone was blaming Meghan for his leaving Britain and settling in California.
I don’t know if either of you has ever dealt with a toxic parent or relative but once you are away from them you have this fantasy that maybe they can change and stop being emotionally self-destructive but once you interact with them again then you realize that they still haven’t had that epiphany that they are the cause of their own issues and probably never will change.
@Roderick, yes, I know something about dysfunctional families, as alluded in this thread, too, and absolutely think many people need some sort of support to get through it. The difference is, I’m in a country where therapy is mostly funded by a public health insurance. Therefore, it’s much less an industry than in the US. Basically, what we lack are all these therapists essentially acting as eco chambers for rich, self-centered people just wanting to feel important. My need for therapy has been evaluated twice, once when I was around 20 and the second time 5 years ago. First time, psychologist doing the evaluating thought I had sufficient tools to work on my childhood issues (loss of mother at 4, stepmother who “isolated” me at my own home…) by myself. Second time, my anxiety was deemed “situational”, caused essentially by my frankly horrible boss, and was sent to professional guidance sessions. In both occasions, what’s remarkable and something I think happens hardly ever in The US was that the therapist (second time, a psychiatric) essentially told I was sane and did not need their services.
Oddly enough Harry has his Moon in the 4th so at some level he will always have regarded his father as the stability in his life – perhaps why he was so choked off when the money supply was cut off.
Charles is screwed up, no doubt, overly self-centred and hyper-sensitive, and over-burdened by a lifestyle that is heavily regimented. But the stories from insiders were that Diana set the kids against their father and given how vindictive she was about the nanny Tiggy I’d imagine not all of the stories would be true.
Diana gave off a saintly aura and played the wronged-one to perfection but the reality was very different. She evidently didn’t tell Harry about the Panorama interview and it was left to the headmaster of his school to put him in a room on his own to watch it. So not all nurturing as a mother. Her Venus was conjunct his Moon which would create a strong bond but since that was tied into her Aquarius Moon opposition Uranus and Mars she’d be unpredictable and inconstant.
On toxic parents – it’s certainly true that learning to accept an un-insightful, damaged and damaging parent is a long struggle – and walking away is often the best option for a while and maybe for ever. Though finding a way of living with the knowledge that you are half that parent at a genetic level is crucial if you’re to lead a purposeful life that isn’t weighed down by the past.
But it seems a stretch to describe Charles as toxic. He was a product of his upbringing as all of us are – and him more so than most in a rigidly dutiful, stiff upper lip family – but within the limitations of his temperament he did try to do what he could.
It’s unfortunate but inevitable that even parents who are generally well-intentioned, decent people will make mistakes or be the victims of circumstance when raising their children.
@Marjorie To follow on about Diana’s parental style, I recall William ruefully saying that she’d rush in, creating a splash of excitement, disrupting everything, then rush off again.
He didn’t sound very impressed, but then, by all accounts, he was the child she leant on, so why would he?
With regard to his father, perhaps Harry simply thinks that Charles owes him.
Perhaps too money is a factor. After all, as second son, you’re not worth much.
Gone through this I agree. Parents dont change n v have to accept the bitter fact that bit all things v can change, just accept them with flaws while keeping self insulated from old toxic cycle. People here blame Harry but in one of his outskirts interview in America when he said that his son got waffle maker as gift from Queen on his bday as she asked him to choose, it’s was shocking to interviewer n me as waffle maker is not costly. I understand breaking away from family means struggling to stay afloat n Harry has just interviews paid to keep family n self afloat ..as I gather so he is saying what he is paid for .create controversies to get headlines for the paer
Sellers took drugs and drank. Harry has admitted to taking drugs and drinking heavily in his youth. Maybe he never stopped? . 12th House Neptune is the hidden addiction in some charts. Apparently Meghan Markle’s first Wedding was strange, in as much, as bags of Cannabis were handed out to all guest. Perhaps there is substance abuse damage in both of them. Their unrealistic expectations and constant opinion of their spiritual highness, is evident all the time. Harry constant attack on his family, is now becoming too much. Harry’s marriage is a toxic mixture of idolisation and immaturity. An Indian Astrology once wrote that in 2023 something big, will happen to Harry, it looks like Harry is spiralling out control in the Sunshine state. It may just be drugs?
“Apparently Meghan Markle’s first Wedding was strange, in as much, as bags of Cannabis were handed out to all guest.”
Would you also consider serving wine at a wedding “strange”? Because I think you are reading too much into this. Meghan Markle is a Millenial who grew up in California. For her generation – and frankly many Californians well into their 80’s – recreational weed use would not be any less socially acceptable than drinking wine. In fact, in some cases it might be more acceptable. Personally, I don’t care for THC based product for recreational uses (as a fibromyalgia sufferer will try, though, the moment medical marijuana gets approved as a treatment in my country), but am much rather around stoners than drunks.
On the other hand, I think it’s obvious Meghan Markle grew up in an environment where substance abuse was very much of an issue. You can see from Thomas Markle’s looks that he is a heavy drinker. Meghan’s stepbrother, Thomas Jr., has a been arrested for pointing a gun on a girlfriend. There might be similar issues on her mother’s side, but I haven’t looked at that family as closely. Having had an grandfather who was an alcoholic, I’ve seen how daughters of alcoholic fathers take different roles. I think much of “fakeness” people see in Meghan stems from that period. She is keeping her true self hidden, even from herself. I also think she might have dissociation issues.
I must agree. I have people in my family who are regular users of cannabis and also able professionals. I’m not averse to it’s use myself. Ime, alcohol is one of the most destructive substances there is, it has taken 3 family members prematurely. I think Harry has a more problematic relationship with alcohol, certainly in his younger years.
@ Solaia & Virgoflake
I have a friend who’s son was diagnosed as schizophrenic after using cannabis 25 years ago. My friend and her entire family have been through hell non-non stop ever since – not to mention the poor boy himself whose life has been totally trashed by it. My own son is a doctor. He told me once that he always thought that cannabis was harmless until he began to work on the psychiatric wards while he was studying. Since then he has been totally against the “it’s totally safe” fantasy. He told me that while other drugs leave the body system within a short time, psychiatrists literally dread it when someone arrives in hospital with psychotic symptoms from cannabis use as it doesn’t leave the body in a short time and the long term effects can be devastating and very difficult to deal with. He told me this having seen it first hand.