Moon Saturn mothering or lack thereof ++ Princess Anne ++ guilt trip

The Moon and Saturn are not comfortable companions with the Moon yearning for nurturing, support and comfort while chilly Saturn cuts down on warmth, raises defences and puts duty before pleasure.

  A Saturnine mother – whether through her own rigid, unempathic temperament or harsh circumstances – is not a recipe for easy relationships in adult life, though as in all things to do with the planet of time it mellows through and after the middle years.

 Elvis Presley, 8 January 1935 4.35 am  Tupelo, MS, had a poor childhood, a famously close tie to his mother Grace and problems forming mature adult emotional commitments. Perhaps even more significant than his bond with his mother, he lost a stillborn twin at his birth. His Moon Saturn conjunct fell in his 3rd house of siblings and though it seems too far back to remember, recent evidence is that losing a twin, even in utero, has a lasting effect in later life to the surviving sibling. Stillborn is full term, so he had developed side by side with a twin for nine months and the loss would have left an indelible mark.

 His mother was not the an easy temperament being a Sun Taurus square Uranus and her Leo Moon may have been opposition his Saturn and square her own Saturn. Whatever her mothering deficiencies, they would come from her own emotionally deprived childhood.

 See previous post February 3 2019 – Elvis and mom.

‘The family lived in chaotic poverty with his feckless father, an abusive drunk, in prison at one point for forging a check and Elvis becoming his mother’s protector when young. Gladys’ appeared to have been obsessed with her son, wanting absolute closeness yet she was also keen he find a wife to settle down with, and interviewed girlfriends, even very young ones to gauge their suitability. At 19 he became the family breadwinner, which unsettled her since he was more often away so despite her religious leanings she turned to drink for support. The richer he became, the more unhappy she was, effectively locked away in grand mansions. She died at 46 of alcohol related damage.’ He married 8 years after her death, having started a friendship with Priscilla when she was 14, seven years previously.

  George Clooney, 6 May 1961 2.58am Lexington, KY, also rollicked through a string of relationships before settling to marriage when he was 53. He has a Moon Saturn in Capricorn opposition Mars, so quite a fraught relationship with his beauty queen/city councilwoman mother. Her ambitious Mars in Capricorn in an utterly determined opposition to Pluto sat on top of his Moon Saturn, which is a scary combination.

 An extreme example is the Norwegian mass shooter Anders Brevik, 13 February 1979 12.50pm Oslo, Norway, who has Moon Saturn conjunct in Virgo in his 4th. His mother with an abusive background herself, had mental problems, wanted to abort him,  ‘sexualised’ him and frequently told him that she wished that he were dead. Psychiatrists thought he should be removed from his mother for him to develop normally – he had little emotional engagement, did not show joy, made no attempts to play with other children. His mother showed negative reactions when he displayed any emotion. She described him as “clingy and demanding.” See wiki.

  She was a Sun Scorpio with Mars also in Scorpio which clashed badly with his Sun, Mercury and Mars in Aquarius.

  Obviously there was a great deal more than just Saturn going on or at least it was off-the-Richter scale Saturn but it describes the broad brush strokes of the dynamic.

  Another very extreme example is Lisa Minnelli, 12 March 1948 7.58 am Los Angeles, who has a Moon, Mars, Saturn conjunction in Cancer. She grew up with a troubled, alcohol and drug-addicted mother in Judy Garland in a chaotic showbusiness childhood. Those are harsh mothering influences which left her with her own addiction problems and four divorces in adult life. The Mars would add a layer of unkindness (perceived as cruelty) and extra anger issues into the mix which wouldn’t help.

Add On: Another classic example is Princess Anne with a Moon Saturn conjunction in Virgo but without such disastrous consequences – a dutiful, workaholic, emotionally-damped-down mother, paid nannies. The princess famously said she didn’t particularly like playing with children but thought they deserved protection which was why she has devoted a good deal of her time over fifty years to Save the Children.

 Marilyn Monroe had a Moon opposition Neptune square Saturn and a famously troubled childhood.

Carole Thatcher, Maggie’s daughter, had a mixed relationship with her workaholic, brother-favouring mother and she has a Libra Moon conjunct Saturn Neptune square Uranus.

Add On: One key effect of Moon Saturn is the mother’s ability to land a guilt trip on the child/adult-child as if it was their responsibility to care for her. The mother’s unhappiness and depression is an implicit criticism of the offspring. Their duty in life is to ease mother’s suffering with an implied blame for having been the cause of it. Saturn also carries with it a good deal of corrosive envy. So the Saturnine parent is determined that no one else is allowed to be happy or successful around them.   

19 thoughts on “Moon Saturn mothering or lack thereof ++ Princess Anne ++ guilt trip

  1. My moon (Aq) is squared by Neptune(Sc) and opposed by Uranus. I understand she likely had post natal depression after my birth. She was complex and certainly unpredictable. She died just before I reached 9 yrs. There was definitely a distance, even before her death, but not, I think, intentional – just unavoidable.

  2. I am Capricorn Moon quintile Saturn and Neptune. With my moon conjunct the Descendant. Along with a Pluto/ Sun conjunction straddling the IC. Both my parents were in their forties, when I was born. My mother was a very ill person with heart problems, she had a stroke in front of me when I was 12 – dying when I was just 18. Both parents were dead by the time I was 26. It makes your resourceful, but distrustful in life. As Liz Greene wrote in her Saturn Book; “Saturn moons learn to play in the sand as they get older”. I found the key to having a strong Saturn, is to learn to not judge and let go, otherwise Saturn’s power can be destructive in many ways.

  3. Moon Saturn in Capricorn here. A monster of an aspect especially during the all important young and nurturing phase. I could catalogue the misery, but suffice to say it had little redeeming qualities, except as seen from the vantage point of mature years and experience, very Capricorn qualities of course. Wouldn’t wish it on anyone.

  4. Thanks very much Marjorie. I have a Moon Saturn conjunction in Capricorn in the 2nd house, also opposite Mars. I’ve struggled all my life after a truly unloved and dire childhood. My father was a violent alcoholic in addition. So I really can relate.

  5. My daughter has a cancer moon on IC and Saturn and mars in cancer in the 4th house. None are conjunct. She had an amazing and loving childhood. Her and I are very close as is our entire family. I always read that Saturn in the 4th house is not great but it definitely does not pertain in her case.

  6. Very insightful as always, Marjorie. I was born with a Virgo Saturn/moon conjoined in 8th house. My mother has NPD & probably additional mood disorders.. She was in and out of my life, based on her needs at any given time, starting when I was 7. Fortunately for me, my moon is sextile Venus, Mercury and Uranus and I have a Venus Mercury conjunction as well. I think this combination made me kind, sweet, likable & generally agreeable because I always had a abundance of surrogate mothers during my upbringing. My teachers, grandmothers, mothers of my friends and neighbor ladies were always swooping in to offer me love, kindness, guidance and generosity. Having a mother with NPD is a living nightmare but I was supplemented, and Thank God she was the absent & neglectful type of narcissistic mother, because the periods when she was absent were filled with love from others, and I had that frame of reference. Anders Brevik never got a break from having that hot branding iron on his back. I’ll add that I have Jupiter in the 7th. I think this adds to the levity of my situation. I’ve had some serious curses with the moon/Saturn conjunction but also, some abundant blessings. I think true NPD is genetic and I believe my mother inherited it her father. It’s a monster.

    • My mother was also in and out of my life. Out physically when I was about 5 or 6 and back in shortly before graduating high school. I had surrogate mothers as well–I usually think of their combined efforts as my composite Mother. I am in touch with my biological mother these days but we do not live in the same part of the country so I only see her once every few years these days. I do not believe she has NPD.

      I also have Jupiter in the 7th (in Aries).

      For what it’s worth, whenever I’ve done Myers-Briggs tests, I’ve always been on the F/T cusp of INFP/INTP. Like literally right on it. I value logic and communication (Virgo ascendant, Gemini Mercury) as much as my emotions (Cancer Moon and Venus, and Saturn’s there, too). And my Lilith (BML) is in Pisces. Lot of feelings.

      Thanks for sharing.

      • Oh wow, interesting that you also have Jupiter in the 7th. My cousin who also has Saturn beating up her moon, has Jupiter in the 7th as well. She and I seem to have fared the best out of our siblings. Her mother (my aunt) has NPD as well, only she is the overbearing and controlling variety. Astrology has helped me immensely in gaining clarity. Side note, my cousin and I also have moon square Neptune which I seem to understand as delusions & lying from the mother. “I love you” being the “BIG LIE” we have survived.

  7. Thank you, Marjorie. I also have Moon Saturn conjunct in Cancer, 10th House. Venus is also there conjunct on the other side of Saturn. The orb is too wide for Moon conjunct Venus, though. Without going into personal detail here, I would agree with the mothering assessment.

  8. Fascinating overview, Marjorie. Would love something similar that looks at Moon Mars/Aries dynamics. While I, personally was spared from this in my family, many other close relatives have it. Relationships with each of them are like walking on eggshells 🙁

  9. My father had a Leo Moon square Saturn in Scorpio and was born when his mother was in her 40s and his father was 65, so I see it as partly a marker for being the child of older parents, but we think he very likely had an undiagnosed Aspergers Syndrome since he had all the classic symptoms. Like many men of his background and generation, he was raised by a nanny as a young child, (before being packed off to boarding school) which I think is very Moon/Saturn = employing someone professionally to nurture. An extremely difficult man to reach on an emotional level and I have Sun square Saturn as a result!

  10. Amazingly I have checked the childrens’ Lilith signs Elvis, George, and Anders all have Lilith in Leo and has aspects to mothers Leo planets in their chart,..only Liza Minnelli has Lilith in Scorpio and nothing else in Scorpio, an empty 7th House, and Judy Garland has no planets in Scorpio…and empty 5th House….Thanks for these…
    I have Moon conjunct Saturn…2 different signs and Lilith in Leo….conjunct aspects to mother moon…and her Lilith conjuncts to my Saturn….Very significant mother issues…
    Annie UK

    • Hi Annie (or Marjorie),
      Would love your take on someone who has Saturn in Scorpio cj Lilith in the 4th. Am I safe to assume that his dynamic also spells mother issues?
      Ava, Canada

  11. Thank you for this, Marjorie. Very interesting. Re Elvis, I recall an interview Priscilla did with Barbara Walters in which she said that after she gave birth and became a mother he would no longer make love to her. The king definitely had mommy issues.

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