Kathy Griffin, the controversial stand-up comedian and television presenter, is watching her career disintegrate in front of her eyes after a stunt with a severed head of Donald Trump. Several comedians, including Jim Carrey, have stepped up to support her, saying comedians sometimes step across the line, but she’s had gigs cancelled and sponsorship withdrawn. Her supporters point out that “Obama’s presidency was marked by effigies of our first black president hanging from nooses across the country … or being burned around the world.” Sauce for the goose and all that. Those that give it can rarely take it.
Griffin was born 4 November 1960 6am Oak Park, Illinois (astrotheme), the youngest of six to older Irish immigrant parents, had a paedophile, drug-addicted, abusive brother and suffered from an eating disorder. Not a great childhood.
She is a Sun Mercury Neptune in Scorpio so undoubtedly intense; with her Scorpio planets trine an excitable Mars in Cancer. Her Mars in the 9th is also opposition Saturn in Capricorn, so she’ll be hard-edged, prone to overstatement, bubbling with anger. She’ll certainly be talented with a Half Grand Sextile off that opposition, of Mars sextile Node Pluto sextile Neptune Sun sextile Saturn – but a happy lady at heart she is not.
Her Uranus is in her 10th like Jim Carrey as is her Pluto. Her Uranus is conjunct Trump’s Mars, so a recipe for fireworks. She’ll perk up marginally from late this month with a lucky-break tr Uranus opposition her Jupiter/Uranus; but she’s in a generally low-profile, less successful phase with undermining Neptune transits running till late 2018.
Like Carrey, her 7th Harmonic, which can be mentally on the edge as well as creative is ferociously strong; as is her victim 12H; and she has a strained and aggravated 13H (= breaking with the orthodox).
Jane, Marjorie is an astrologer, when you study astrology to the extent she has, feel free to ask her to change her analysis. In the meantime this is her analysis, you either agree or you don’t. It really is information, like all information.
I note there’s definitely a divide here which is quite symbolic of what is happening in the world and in communities. However I feel that those making reference to previous acts of the same magnitude were making observations between the then and this incident to say that the reactions have been disproportionate as if this is worst. They are both as bad.
I think the glaring difference is that whilst the symbolism of taunting people with lynching continues and seems to be accelerating Kathy’s career will suffer for a while she will be like kryptonite Trump will move on live in peace no one got hurt and life goes on. Can we say the same for the people and families threatened on such a daily basis that it is woven into their expectations and ordinary life?
It’s funny because whilst Kathy was wrong I don’t recall this type of outrage even on this forum when Obama was getting just as good for 8 years?
Absolutely its important for us to evolve and love each other and we will get there when the time is right. It just might not be in your or my time.
So we are at this time allowed to observe compare and debate. It’s human nature and we learn about the importance of perception.
We are not saints yet…… lol
Peace out
Didn’t the likes of Plato and the rest of all the great Greek philosophers ponder the question of, ‘Does culture create society or does society create culture?’ You’d think society creates culture and it is then reflected into our culture but, correct me if I’m wrong about this, I was sure the Greek philosopher’s for the most part, came to the agreement that, one that I now resonate with, that it is culture that creates society, not the other way round.
So, when we see the likes of Trump and Clinton in some of the most vile sewage slinging matches on television, by those who were supposed to be of a professional stature, clawing their way to one of the most important jobs in the world, with it being aired into peoples living rooms the world over, it normalized the ‘polar-opposites and bitch-fest’ tendencies. Also, with the explosion of social media, where everybody has an opinion, vulgar or otherwise, it can have the capacity of finely tuning that digital and reality TV vacuum that the masses are getting swallowed up in. I think it might be the sign of the times we live in, unfortunately.
I believe we are all evolving spiritually and for the betterment but, I think we as a human species often, from our ugly ego point of view, get side tracked into pointless detours and latch onto narcissistic leaders to show us the way (because it’s also within us). Unfortunately, the collective are caught up in one of the biggest detours right now.
This knocks on the door of the nurture or nature debate. I don’t think whichever way you cut it they are separate. They are both interlinked. It is a bit like when they used to think if one part of the brain is sick you can cut it out and all is well. Numerous studies showed that cut affects the way other mechanics in the brain work.
So I have to therefore believe that culture creates society which then in hand creates a culture. They work together always and the two cannot be separated. There are thousands of examples and studies out there. Makes very interesting reading.
Also remember that Greek philosophers and their like are only men with ideas just like us. They just had a larger platform to be heard.
If the tiny step is this forum and we have these debates in our homes with friends and family observing and comparing both sides of the argument? Then we are winning one step at a time. The trick is to look at both sides of the same coin. it is the same it just looks different depending on which side you are looking at. I think!
Completely agree at how interlinked it all is. Soon as more positive influences step into our view of awareness and influences the masses, then we the masses influence our culture in turn, and we begin to upcycle ourselves, so to speak, onto the next evolutionary step. It just doesn’t look like it when it looks like we are living inside a bottleneck of history, which is where I think we are right now.
I always said regarding the Trump/Clinton debacle that Clinton was going to be just the same old, same old at a time when political and social structures desperately needed to change. I suppose many threw their protest vote towards Trump believing he would change it all. It is clear for many, even a large number of his voters now, that he’s as mendacious as those he condemned.
What I think I’m trying to say is, beneath all this ugliness that is around right now, at the root cause of it all is, there is a sub-conscious need for positive change, but we don’t understand it on a conscious level. We can’t communicate it well, because our egos get in the way and it comes out like fighting talk on both sides. It’s destabilizing our social and political structures and making our futures appear uncertain but, it has to happen, if we are to move forward. Even if we make bad decisions. What it boils down to is, it doesn’t matter who is supposedly fighting our corner, we ALL want to aim towards something better. Even if the other side, whatever side that may be, doesn’t make sense to us.
Odd how this debate sounds like one person taking both sides. Weird.
Sigh. The argument ‘But they did it too!’ is the reasoning of a 5 year old. It is very possible to shudder at the pretend beheading of the President and truly wince at the effigies of Obama. The point is that we are supposed to be past this. The idea is that the effigies of Obama were awful, and the so-called Leftist comedians would never stoop so low. Because they were better than that. Incorrect assumption.
Both sides are capable of violently divisive imagery. And neither side can claim a monopoly on high minded political discourse.
And when the next democratic President is greeted with disturbing imagery, rest assured that the Left will duly complain. And on it goes.
Less self-righteousness please. And more humility and empathy. From everyone.
What Griffin did was reckless and tasteless and she’s been roundly criticized for it, by right and left. But why keep beating that drum? The GOP seems unable at the moment to act like any rule at all applies to them anymore: The ethics of loading the administration with unqualified and inexperienced relatives, who are maintaining all of their old business dealings; the constant lunacy from the President himself, ignoring the hate crime in Portland for days but tweeting immediately to criticize the Mayor of an allied country that was just attacked; his egging on a foreign power to hack his rival during the election; his unconstitutional travel “ban”, which his lawyers argue isn’t a ban even though he keeps calling it one; his firing of the same F.B.I. official he asked to cease an investigation into his own administration’s possible corruption.
C’mon. This is the path we are headed down—a path without standards. Let’s hear some complaints from the right about all of that.
—Best, Steve
Agree. We can do a lot better. The political system as it is in most every country is failing for many reasons, people just love to point fingers thinking that it accomplishes something. And it doesn’t. In the meantime we could wake up and realize that we are in the midst of technological advancement that is bringing us to artificial intelligence eventually governing our world. Hopefully we will at some point in time modulate our emotionalism and evolve spiritually with greater Presence.
Political systems and religions all fail eventually. At heart they allow the dead to make rules for the living. Eventually the living stop participating and move along to the next powerful set of promises.
AI already rules internet comments.
Humans will evolve to self-limiting brain changes. Much like a wolf to a domesticated dog.
It will happen only if humans make it happen
Meanwhile, controversial photographer Tyler Shields is taking none of the backlash for this. As yet, I don’t think he’s even mentioned it on his social media. I don’t condone her nonsense, but she didn’t do it on her own. Dare I say that she is being focused on due to her past controversies – as well as the fact that she is a woman?
Agree – don’t know why this guy gets to skate. I think he egged her on – exploited her neurotic need for attention. Not excusing her at all either, tho.
From various net pieces: Musician Ted Nugent said: “We need to ride into that battlefield and chop their [the Obama administration’s] heads off in November.” Trump addressed Nugent’s comments directly. But rather than saying the musician should be “ashamed” of himself, as he said of Griffin, Trump declared that Nugent demonstrated “the anger people have towards” then–President Obama, even if his “figure of speech” was a bit “unfortunate.” Trump invited Nugent to the White House last month, where he posed for a photo with a man who has repeatedly called for the deaths of high-level government officials.
Stand Up America Now has a video online with two effigies of Obama hanging from nooses with a fake gravestone in the background that reads “OBAMA DEAD,” as well as a church and an upside-down flag. The video concludes with a white man in sunglasses using a propane torch to light the Obama effigies on fire, prompting a round of applause and cheers from the crowd. Sasha Obama was 11-years-old when this display was published.
Where was the conservative outrage when this happened? Or when effigies of Obama were burned at a bar in Milwaukee; as well as hung from a tree at the University of Kentucky; a building in Plains, Ga.; and a noose in the front yard of a home in Moreno Valley, Calif.
Americans have a long history of citizens committing violence against president effigies to voice political dissent. James Madison, John Tyler, Abraham Lincoln, Woodrow Wilson, Richard Nixon, Gerald Ford, and Jimmy Carter were all burned in effigy during their presidencies. And each time this happened, the offending party leaders repudiated the distasteful and disrespectful actions of their constituents.
Freedom of speech seems to have created the potential for tapping into a despot of hatred. There is choice for each of us. No need to continue hate speech though is there? There will always be plenty of this type of thing in the world. Can always go looking for it.
In literature and language and in all countries are expressions such as “that is like throwing gasoline to the fire” “two wrongs do not make a right” “the pointing finger always points back” “he can dish it out though cannot take it” and so forth and so on.
I read what you write about Ted Nugent and Stand Up America. More hatred and polarizations. I am surprised Marjorie that you give this as much attention as you do.
My sense is to hold the tension of the polarizations and move forward in as peaceful a way as possible. We can not afford to allow the hate speech and actions to take up space where more productive analysis and depth would create understanding.. I am signing off on this one.
Jane Jennifer Jo Jessica Julie Jan–the J tribe–Our Ladies of Constant Comment.
JJJJJohnny
Sounds like you are JJJJJealous. Comment invites debate that hopefully invites ‘food for thought’ which invites change however small.
Maybe you should try it sometime!! lol
None of this makes sense. JJJJJealous of several people using J names? Thoughts require food? “Invites” creating change? Only actual physical action creates change. Try inviting your clothes to change every morning and see what happens.
Maybe you should try not overthinking everything and compulsively typing it out on the internet, J crew.
Action starts after thought 5Jjohnny. Without thought there is no action. You have to Creep before you can walk.
The food is the differing opinions that you read that inform your thinking or realign it, whichever suits. I’m done. Peace out.
Marjorie, I had never heard of Ted Nugent until your posting and don’t think I missed anything. Yes, there is a lot of trash on the internet. I was referring to major network commentators, well known comedians, and journalists. Griffin was with CNN. I do not watch Stand Up America Now. Very likely that Holywood will soon end and entertainment will transform into an entirely new presentation. The whole pint to my writing on this Marjorie is not to differ or argue, but rather to ask and suggest that make a concerted effort to create more kindness in the world and focus on that.
The give but can’t take is correct because the whole of the Republican Party stood by and said nothing of the Obama lynchings or the births movement that was headed by Trump. Silence while these things took place throughout his terms. Donald Trump breeds hate so it could be said that he caused this hateful act himself. Comedians cross the line all the time. I don’t think she should have done it. Cos it brings him empathy from his base. But this man has split the country with his lies so at some point someone is going to be angry
Silence? Not true. The “whole of the Republican party” said Nothing? Not true. The birther movement was loudly disputed for a long time. Obama is held in high regard in the U.S. and was elected two times. I am definitely getting the feeling that You just hate Donald Trump and anything goes as result of how much you hate him. So you say that the reason that you do not believe that Griffin should have held up a decapitated bloodied head of Trump is because it engenders empathy from his supporters. So you are blaming Kathy Griffins actions on Donald Trump . Amazing. Does that mean that any other president including Obama deserved hatred because of their actions? That is what is disappointing and sad. There is plenty of blame and anger in the world and I suggest that it is much better not to contribute to it. I believe that you just reinforced my point. Hatred breeds more hatred. Human decency and understanding and building bridges will do more good and our world will be better as a result.
Of course hideous effigies of burning Obama, G.W.Bush , Clinton, HWB Bush, Reagan and all those who are in leadership positions are not right. This case is different because she is a paid comedian passing this off as humor. Bad analogy. I do not recall anybody in the media laughing while showing such vile effigies. Separate politics from human decency.
I do not remember any comedian or journalist or network reporter or any public figure holding an effigy of former President Obama up in mock effigy. The situation with Griffin is that she was suggesting that it is humor. We have a major problem in the world and must gather our resources and move forward in peace. It starts with each of us.
It followed directly on from the descriptions of lynching and burning images of Obama. Which is why ‘the give but can’t take’ comment came from. Agreed it was in hideously bad taste. But then so are lynchings/burnings of the then President of the USA.
I ask you Marjorie to reconsider your comment that “those that give it can rarely take it.” That does not apply here. Present tense… we do not condone this. What she did was to hold a severed head of the President of the United States with a smile on her face at a time when severed heads is done by Isis around the world. She was grinning and suggesting that it was humorous and somehow with a distorted perception spews her belief that it is part and parcel of being a comedian. Innocent Londoners had knives turn on them last night in Great Britain. Do you remember Daniel Pearl? Your astrological analysis of her is excellent though give and take in relationship does not include depictions of severed heads.
You made some sort of point 9 hundred words ago. Quit badgering Margery. It’s her site.