Chiron – in love, hate and loneliness

Chiron’s saintly aura as the wounded healer, selflessly dispensing compassion for others, has its shadow side of rage, envy, vindictive spite, self-pity and resentment laid bare in Liz Greene’s latest book Chiron in Love.

   What tends to get forgotten – we know it but it gets blithely skipped over – is that the centaur’s wound is poisoned and can never heal, a point she hammers home again and again. Only by giving up his divine immortality (and ultimately dying) can Chiron ever be released from his unending pain.  

 ‘Repetition and cyclical return to the place of suffering are characteristic of the inner world of Chiron.’

  The mythological background to Chiron is covered extensively. As son of earthy Kronos (Saturn) and grandson of the sky god Ouranus, he bridges worlds, standing between the instinctual and the divine.  Abandoned as a baby he was brought up by Apollo and was already a healer when he was wounded by accident.   

  Crime and punishment, blame and the victim culture belong in Saturn’s realm as the giver of laws. But there is no culpability in Chiron’s domain which is a difficult concept to grapple with. ‘Life is unfair, humans are fallible and imperfect.’  ‘A just verdict in the outer world won’t heal the wound in the inner world.’ The victimizer can often have been victimized themselves.

  It is a harsh, nihilistic view of a random universe (shit happens) and human evil, not likely to sit comfortably with a happy-clappy, everything-happens-for-a-good-reason outlook. We need, Greene thinks, to move beyond the endless self-pity party to discover how difficult it is to be human. This is the beginning of compassion.

  The chapter on synastry suggests that relationships where there are Chiron crossovers offer a chance of change but often end badly. ‘Great expectations and their inevitable disappointment lie at the heart of Chiron’s story.’

 As cases in point –  King Charles’ Chiron squared Princess Diana’s Moon and Meghan’s Chiron is conjunct Harry’s Moon – in both cases hinting at the high hopes of the Chiron individual for the Moon person to provide endless warmth and unconditional support since they have not learned to nourish their own emotional needs.

  Chiron sparring with the other’s Mars can begin with sexual excitement and not surprisingly ends badly – with Johnny Depp (Mars) and Amber Heard (Chiron) as well as Princess Margaret (Chiron) and Anthony Armstrong Jones (Mars) as prime examples. Mars wants to conquer and win; and challenge can be an aphrodisiac. But pushy Mars hitting Chiron’s defensiveness can trigger violence as the wounded Chiron lashes out.

 Chiron on the other’s Mercury makes the Chiron person feel unintelligent. A Venus cross over makes the Chiron individual feel unloveable. She points to both Marilyn Monroe and Michael Jackson who both had Chiron Neptune aspects natally.

  Chiron close to the Sun natally – King Charles, Greta Thunberg, Carl Jung – brings loneliness, a chronic sense of being an outsider, a painful and enduring sense of isolation and low-self-esteem. ‘Often people with with a strong natal Sun Chiron aspect feel both damaged and chosen.’ ‘Jung wrote at length about the loneliness of increased consciousness and the suffering of the outsider burdened with being able to see too much yet unable to communicate it to those who did not comprehend it.’  

  The book is an amalgam of various seminars from 2005 and more recently in 2020 as the victim-culture got into full swing which perhaps explains her repeated emphasis on a no-one-to-blame Chiron. It is in no way an Astro-cook book with easy-to-find lists of interpretations of Chiron aspects. But it is thought-provoking and adds a darker, deeper dimension to Chiron which is generally overlooked and will prompt me to look more closely in future at the wandering centaur’s hoof prints.

 [One jarring note for me, though not on the astrology, came with a sideswipe at the Cleveland Child Abuse ‘scandal’ which Greene wrote off as a ‘creating-victims-where-none-existed’ scenario. A little research would have shown that independent experts under the guidance of the Department of Health later found that at least 70 per cent of the diagnoses made by the much-criticised paediatricians had been correct. The experts report added that this was “contrary to general public understanding of the accuracy of the diagnoses”. Butler-Sloss who wrote the original report (think Lord Hutton on David Kelly and Robert Mueller on Trump) did nothing later to disabuse the public. In Saturn’s realm it was a botch up.] 

 Chiron in Love: Liz Greene – 20 September 2023.

38 thoughts on “Chiron – in love, hate and loneliness

  1. Hello Margery, I just sent another reply to Pearl about how Chiron has worked out for me with more details about the hospital project I ran where I used astrology to help the suicidal mentally ill sectioned patients. but it doesn’t seem to have come through. I wonder if it was too long? Please could you let me know if you received it as I wouldn’t want Pearl to feel I was ignoring her. Thanks! This subject of Chiron seems to be very popular.

    • Hi Rohana, thank you. I I’ve got your response, but late. But this is my fault as I don’t think I had notifications on & have been feeling a little under the weather.

      I’m so impressed that you have been able to connect your natal planets & connections to all that you have been doing. I’m still an amateur at astrology & forever learning.

      I remember wanting to do the Faculty of Astrology course many, many years ago – and to show my age, I had to write to them & they sent me the cost in the post, which at the time was expensive; but would have been doable as I was working & could/should have saved up for it (less obligations in life). Now it’s out of my price range!

      You share a Virgo Chiron like my son. I’m a late Pisces Chiron, which is opposite Uranus in Virgo (I have Pluto in Virgo also & retrograde Venus, but out of orb to my Chiron). The Virgo planets are in my 4th house & depending what chart I use (Koch or Placidus) Chiron is in the 10th or 11th. I recognise all the wounding coming from the 4th house, especially with roots, secrets, violence – particularly in childhood. But, I struggle with Chiron’s connection here (unless it’s possibly staring me in the face & I just can’t see it!). Home & roots are important to me & these were shockingly taken away during that potent August 1999 eclipse! My roots, now, are my very miniscule family (myself & my son – born on my Saturn return at 30! And we have a wonderful communicative relationship with a lot of laughter) & a very tiny group of friends that I have had for many many years, but don’t live near any more.

      What I’ve noticed, recently, is that a fair few of my son’s friends (Gen Z) want me to try & look at their charts. I like doing this, but I would really like to incorporate Chiron & as of yet am unable to.

      Your responses & everyone else’s have really helped, but especially yours as you’ve given me so much detail. Thank you. I’m not expecting you to respond back to this as I think I’ve taken a lot of your time already, but again thank you & for me making me welcome to Marjorie’s forum, as I have been reading it for years but never felt able to contribute to. Pearl 🙂

  2. Yes Pearl, I feel that hard aspects such as my T square with Chiron at the apex of an opposition of my Sun and Mars give me an opportunity to use the tension as strength to develop my character. My Sun in Sagittarius is in my sixth house of work and service together with Mercury in Capricorn which gives me an interest in medicine. The only helpful aspect to my Virgo Chiron is a sextile to my Cancer Ascendant. The chart ruler and most elevated planet is the Moon, which is conjunct Uranus (signifying astrology) and Mars, the other planet in the T square. These three planets are all in my eleventh house of community, and I’ve used this energy to develop community projects such as the hospital based therapy project where I introduced patients to astrology. I also have Saturn opposite my Sun as part of a 4 planet Gemini stellium and Saturn is in my twelfth house of hospitals. The NHS authorities liked my project as many patients had mental health problems and because they had failed suicide attempts were ‘sectioned’ and had to stay in hospital for at least 28 days with nothing interesting to do. I ran the project helped by a team of volunteers I had recruited and shared their skills with the patients. We offered arts, crafts, music, creative writing, local history, cooking and gardening and so I also introduced the patients to astrology as well as other alternative healing subjects. Everyone benefited and I loved this part of my therapeutic work as well as working at home as a consultant astrologer.

  3. Thank you Pearl for your sympathy about my husband’s accident. I was just grateful he was still alive as it was touch and go. Luckily for him I am a rehab therapist so have been able to help his recovery. Before I retired I ran a creative activities programme in a NHS hospital for in patients and among the therapeutic activities I offered them was astrology! If they wanted I printed out their natal charts and we discussed them together. They really enjoyed this and I’m sure it helped them. As I’m a graduate from The Faculty of Astrological Studies I was trained not to upset them, and the NHS authorities who funded me were very pleased with the results of this project which I ran for over 20 years.

    • So, Rohana, do you think this is how your Chiron is working through your chart & life – being a rehab therapist & bringing astrology to your patients at the same time? If so, how wonderful.

  4. Chiron certainly is truamatisingly painful since it’s never let’s heal by triggering memories of initial wound…still i learnt that when one is facing another Chiron in reverse sign then it’s healing and also retrograde Chiron means one heals thru it not gets wounded.
    My Chiron in Taurus retro faces my husband’s Chiron in leo which is my sun sign n Taurus his asc …maybe that’s y v both feel healing in each other’s presence

  5. @Marjorie thanks for getting back to me re my message (sent 3 times now) disappearing). Something spooky going on with me! Maybe, it’s not meant to go through 🙂

  6. Pearl, I’m so glad you found my account of how Chiron featured in my family helpful. I think if we astrologers share our experiences this is how we can learn. My husband has Chiron on his Ascendant and has suffered from personal self expression problems due to early family trauma. Later, after overcoming these difficulties he was injured in a car crash and his face was severely damaged, he still needs a lot of speech therapy help from me. This car crash happened on an eclipse which conjuncted his Uranus in Gemini which natally conjuncts his mid heaven and has forced him to stop driving. (Gemini – car! ). It seems we often have to deal with these recurring issues until we learn everything we need to for our soul’s purpose.

    • Gosh Rohana, that’s a lot to go through for your husband and you. And, yes totally agree we learn from each other. I’m already learning a lot from this post & personal stories & responses such as yours.

      I’ve took down from the book shelf the Melanie Reinhart & put it on the sofa in the hopes that I can try & read up on it again. And, thanks again for sharing, I think I learn more from others accounts/thoughts/experiences alongside the books.

  7. My late brother had Sun conjunct Chiron conjunct Pluto in Leo all square Moon in Scorpio. As a child he nearly died several times as a refugee in the Far East during the Second World War. As an adult he had huge rows with our father over religion and converted to Catholicism and chose a wife of this religion to my father’s anger who was an evangelical Christian. My brother also quarrelled with my father over his wish to become a physicist when my controlling father wanted him to become a mechanical engineer. Later my brother became a world expert in low temperature physics and had an esteemed career in university. My father and my brother’s wife were both Sun Scorpios and all three of them had many fixed signs so wounding and revenge were part of this family dynamic… My own Chiron in the third house of siblings is in a tight T square with my
    Sagittarius Sun opposite Mars in Gemini describing the pain I felt when expected to play piggy in the middle in this on-going drama.

    • @Rohana Darlington, this is really helpful to me as I struggle to interpret Chiron into my own and others birth charts.

  8. Hi guys I have chiron & saturn (r) & moon all in 1st house pisces fir sun leo in 6th house! What dies thus mean for me? Petra

    • Hi Petra, from an ever learning astrologer enthusiast (not an expert), this is what I’ve come up with – hopefully others will chime in & add to this. I’ve only looked at your 1st house placements of Moon, Chiron & retrograde Saturn. The Moon would make you extremely sensitive. You likely have a strong connection to family & probably pick up on mood swings, or changes in mood (including your own). The retrograde Saturn may have made you appear serious from an early age & given you self discipline. Chiron here, may have imbued you with a level of vulnerability & together with the moon may have reinforced this. And because it’s the 1st house, it may have been around self identity. Given this, you are likely really good at empathising with others, as your sensitivity will give you the ability to recognise pain in others.

      Obviously, there are many other factors in your chart that may, or will, impact or alter what I have said, including firey Leo in your sixth house. I hope this helps somewhat & that I haven’t got it completely wrong 🙂

    • Liz Greene talking of Princess Margaret who has Chiron in her 1st house – ‘a gnawing feeling of bring worthless and boring. Her wound lay in her perception of herself and her expectation of how the outside world would treat her.’
      There are various astrology websites which cover Chiron in houses and aspects. If you google you’ll find them. A selection here:

      • What rabbit hole are you pointing me to?

        I have Chiron in my 1st
        And a slew of aspects-I’ve never gone through my chart looking at them before

        Mercury sextile & Jupiter Square Chiron

        Venus trine & Saturn septile Chiron

        Sun square, Neptune trine & Pluto opposition Chiron and Chiron square midheaven

        (From strongest to weaker aspects)

        That seems like a lot!
        I went thru several difficult chapters when I was a kid & a horrible divorce & a crappy child custody arrangement
        Taught 30 years & have seen other difficulties people have had to deal with

        Being a person is hard

        I’m grateful for therapy & living in a time in which having struggles is not as stigmatizing as it once was.

        • Thank you for the links, Marjorie. Very apt as I have an exact Moon/Chiron trine and my Chiron is conjunct my mother’s Sun. An at times, painful synastry.

      • My Chiron opposes Uranus in the 6th/12th and both planets square my Midheaven/Nadir. I can very much see my unusual parents in that aspect.

  9. Thanks for this Marjorie. I’ve been intrigued with Chiron for ages and Liz Greene is always really interesting to read.

  10. I don’t know if anyone remembers/has the Melanie Reinhart book – Chiron and the Healing Journey? It might be considered old now (1989), but this was my introduction to Chiron. It’s a very interesting read. I still struggle to incorporate Chiron into birth charts, just because it isn’t always recognised (I’m by no means an expert in astrology)…

    Thank you Marjorie for reminding me of this book & am very interested in the Liz Greene book (when I can afford it, will try & purchase it).

    • I have the Melanie Reinhart book too. I’m very interested in Chiron and since it was only discovered in 1977, I think we’ve yet to truly understand it’s effect and astrological nature. I have a niece who has a tight Sun/Chiron conjunction in Scorpio. She has a spinal condition which meant she had to use a wheelchair as a child and teen. Because of her differences, she was picked on and bullied, not only at school but also when she went to college. However, she has risen above all of her challenges and has specialised in special effects, works for Netflix and the current series of ‘Black Mirror’ (can’t help but see that Scorpio Sun there!).

      • That is a wonderful example of Sun Chiron – well her condition isn’t wonderful but what she has done with it.

        I have Sun Chiron conjunct in Virgo in my 12th and reading this book has made me look at it with a keener eye.

        • Thank you, Marjorie. The series she has worked on is all very Scorpionic too – she worked on the special effects in the most recent series of ‘The Witcher’ too.

        • @Marjorie, hi, I don’t know if you have the answer to this, but thought I’d ask anyway – do long responses take time to be published or am I unlucky & my one has just, likely, been lost in the ether (the first one disappeared & so did the second one). Thanks

          • No long responses make no difference to acceptance. If there is a URL it waits to be moderated. But I had a look at the back end of the site where all comments are stored and there is nothing there. Sorry.

      • @Virgoflake, I’m sending this very short message to see if it reaches you. I sent a large response to you, but it hasn’t got through. So I’m just checking to see if it was because it was too long. Thanks for bearing with me on this.

      • @Virgoflake, something doesn’t want my response to get through! Anyway, appreciate your response & did have one back. Have a nice evening 🙂

  11. I thought this might be of interest, a quote from an interview with the late Dennis Elwell (Cosmic Loom) in 1999, on

    “Q: How important do you regard Chiron as being in a natal chart, and what does it signify?

    On the subject of Chiron, it is as significant as any planet, but I do not go along with the ‘woundedness’ interpretation. Mention Chiron in a lecture, and you can see the little thought balloons go up over the audience’s heads – ‘Ah yes, the wounded healer.’ But when you are dealing with Chiron in practical work it is better to remember that his mythological namesake conducted a school for heroes. In Cosmic Loom, back in 1987, I described Chiron as ‘a provocative planet that quite enjoys giving things a stir, but which above all gives the audacity to attempt.’ As old Chiron trains us up towards accomplishments we never thought we could achieve, we need to be able to take the dare, to have an irreverent disrespect for the wise ones who say this or that can’t be done. Chiron’s style borders on cocky impudence, but perhaps its basic function is to persuade us that nothing is impossible.

    The provocative side of Chiron is apt to show itself strongly in combination with Mars. Hitler was born with these bodies in close parallel, as well as septile. There are a lot of quintiles in his chart – the signature of an effective will – and the quintile between Chiron and Mercury is relevant to how he talked his way to power.”

    • Fascinating, Jane!
      I agree with this description AND with the woundedness take on Chiron.
      I’ve come to see that Chiron is where our Elder work is… what we know about in our bones through the wound, the suffering, our choices…and, yes, I see that it includes more and more as we age what Dennis Elwell has written.

      My husband and I share an odd Chiron synastry. To the minute, his Chiron sits on my 25 Sag Ascendant. To the minute my Chiron sits on his 21 Aqu Ascendant! This means that our composite Chiron sits right on the Comp Asc!!

      We came together late in life… both having experienced a some profound losses. including the death of people close to us. Individually, we had come right through those experiences into a place of deep acceptance and even more joy and love. This is a cornerstone to our relationship… being present in the moment. Being honest. And laughing.

      Before I had noticed this Chiron thing, my husband commented one day, “I know what we are doing!!!! We wake up each other’s wounds so they can be healed!”. This has been true. Maybe wound is not quite the right word…. dormant? unconscious? ignored? lost? And, of course, it is always a “both” dance…. not just one person’s “wound”. If we had met at a younger age, I’m not sure we could have handled this!! It helps that my Chiron has many sextile and trine aspects in my chart. His Chiron is also well placed. His Pluto, however, is opp MY Chiron!! Ah yes… interesting. The WD40 for us is his Moon conj. my Sun in Cancer, which helps a lot! And we have enough Aquarius to have some distance and perspective!

      However.. the other interesting thing is that composite Chiron on the Ascendant. WOW does that play out in a certain way. Wherever we are, wherever we live, we seem to “wake up” something in the underground that people have been ignoring/avoiding, etc. Practical stuff, emotional stuff.. you name it. Our current example is us saying for 2 1/2 years to our condo Council that the plumbing is in urgent need of repair. La La La… yes, yes… La La…. but no action. Yesterday they FINALLY had a plumber in who discovered a big Fatburg!! in a pipe. And there is more. And it is serious.

      This happens regularly!! For 15 years now. And, of course, this also means that WE end up digging deeper in ourselves, who we are, and how we act. We are both very committed to this kind of personal and shared exploration, which I think any Chiron placement… and esp. these ones… seems to invite… or even demand!

      And… as a couple… we are also have a Blessing energy that people pick up on. That is precious.

      I look forward to reading Liz Greene’s book.
      Thanks Marjorie, for this posting.

      I ought to be taking notes of my husband’s and my journey with this Chiron placement… and then write something!

      • I have Chiron synastry with my Husband too. Lots of crossovers with Chiron, Venus and Mars. His Mars opposes my Chiron and my Venus and Saturn exactly sextile his Chiron. I have a natal Mars Chiron trine and he has a natal Venus Chiron trine. We often say this to each other, that we have the same wound and that to an extent, we can soothe and understand each other’s wounds.

    • Hi Sijune, I have Chiron in either the 10th or 11th house, depending on what chart I use. I recognise loneliness & childhood was fairly difficult for me due to growing up in a domestic violence household. I have a very, very small group of friends that I’ve had for many years, but don’t live near anymore. One of the things that I’m not good with is being in groups of new people. I also overthink too much when it comes to conversations that haven’t even happened.

      As a child I was deeply shy & the very opposite of one of my sisters, who was gregarious & talked to everyone. And the irony is I’m a Leo!!

      I’ve just come across these 2 links which may be helpful (unless you’ve already seen them)…

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