Public opinion is shifting against Brexit though both political parties regard any discussion as too toxic to broach. A recent poll indicated 60 per cent of Britons now think Brexit was the wrong decision and would vote to rejoin the EU at a second referendum. Brexit was sold as a way of controlling immigration and improving the NHS. But the NHS is in far worse shape than it was in 2016. Immigration remains high, with EU immigrants largely replaced by people from outside the bloc. And the IMF predicts the UK will have the worst performing economy in the developed world this year. Young voters are the most pro-EU of the lot, with 79 per cent of 18- to 24-year-olds wanting to rejoin.
No such moves are on the horizon and enthusiasm might fade when faced with no special deals or budget rebate as before; no opt out from the social chapter, acceptance of the free movement of people and possibly the euro.
The FT today argues a case for a 2026 initial Rejoin referendum, followed by a second referendum on the terms of the deal.
When the UK originally joined the EU after several years of stop start, French resistance and haggling, tr Pluto was about to move across the UK Ascendant, transforming the country’s image. With the Solar Arc Pluto moving to conjunct the 11th house (= legislature) Saturn.
What is intriguing is at that point in 1973 Pluto and Uranus were in Libra, Saturn in Gemini and Neptune in Sagittarius – so an outer planet Air Fire mix as will be the case from 2026 onwards – with Pluto in Aquarius, Uranus in Gemini and Neptune Saturn in Aries.
The EU/UK relationship chart at that point in 1973 had tr Pluto conjunct the composite Ascendant, altering the joint image. And tr Uranus in Libra was conjunct the Saturn and thus elbowing the composite Grand Trine onto a different track.
By 2026 tr Uranus just into Gemini will re-set relations between the EU and UK as it is conjunct the composite Pluto. And in 2025/26 tr Pluto in Aquarius will trine the EU/UK relationship composite Ascendant also transforming the joint image. These influences are not quite as strong or pointed as was the case in 1973 but there does look to be a definite shift.
Much water will flow under various bridges between now and 2026, not the least of which is the double-whammy of Solar Arc Uranus conjunct the UK 8th house Mars for a financial upset of some proportions in 2025/26. And the EU has an undermining run of Neptune hard aspects to its Ascendant and Midheaven before it exits Pisces in 2025.
Clearly it will depend on what shape the EU is though at present the euro is more stable and stronger than the pound. The EU’s 12th house Pluto and the UK’s 5th house Pluto will both catch the tr Uranus hard aspect from Gemini in 2026 so both will be prompted to leave old certainties behind.
I’m not convinced just from a gut feeling that a total rejoin will happen but maybe a new form of connection will be cobbled together which suits both sides moving ahead.
As usual, you won’t publish this comment, but it is simply nonsense to say the Euro is stronger than the pound. It is not. Furthermore The Eurozone recorded net zero growth and the UK did not. Please at least get the facts right.
JW – It might be helpful to look at the UK Commons Library website (commonslibrary.parliament.uk):
“Compared to the pre-pandemic level, UK GDP in Q4 2022 was 0.8% lower. This compares with Eurozone GDP being 2.4% higher than its pre-pandemic level, while US GDP was 5.1% higher.”
You can see a range of stats there, including international comparisons.
JW : yes, it fluctuates, at the moment it’s up but the overall trend for the pound is not positive, although a weaker pound makes exports cheaper of course, how else to offset the cost of additional red tape? Facts maybe facts but if we choose only to register those that fit with our world view then actually we are being delusional. The Neptune effect…
Quite a scoop by the Observer.
Revealed: secret cross-party summit held to confront failings of Brexit
Leading Brexiters and remainers, including Michael Gove and David Lammy, met for two-day ‘private discussion’ with diplomats and business leaders
An extraordinary cross-party summit bringing together leading leavers and remainers – including Michael Gove and senior members of Keir Starmer’s shadow cabinet – has been held in high secrecy to address the failings of Brexit and how to remedy them in the national interest, the Observer can reveal.
The two-day gathering of some of the country’s most senior Labour and Tory politicians from both sides of the Brexit debate, together with diplomats, defence experts and the heads of some of the biggest businesses and banks, was held at the historic Ditchley Park retreat in Oxfordshire on Thursday afternoon and evening, and on Friday.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/feb/11/revealed-secret-cross-party-summit-held-to-confront-failings-of-brexit
At least it is a good sign that both sides, Tories and Labour, Remainers and Leavers, are talking of the topic together instead of past each other.
Marjorie, was there anything particular astrologically interesting on Thursday and Friday last week?
There must be more to come out about manufacturing as well. The push for electrics cars as a boost for manufacturing, has become a huge problem, as we are 20 years behind with electric powers points places and now customers are returning to petrol cars – due the price of electricity and limited travel. In the 1801 Chart, Britain has Jupiter in its 10th house in Leo. Along with a 10th house Cancer Moon. This chart came into play, when Britain was in India and making inroads in the world, along with the Industrial Revolution. It could be argued the people also expected to be seen as leaders in the world, or at least have a top country? Jupiter is the largest planet in our solar system. A bit like the “Master of the Universe ”. Perhaps having a recent Empire and then losing it , does not sit well with Parliament, people or those who seek to control it? Like losing a powerful job and then playing second fiddle. As Brexit appeared to be about leading, rather than compromising with other countries. Europe was ravaged by two destructive Wars within 30 years last century. The EU is not only based on commerce, its foundation is to secure peace. As an island, we have never been invaded, or at least for over a thousands years. Europeans countries know how it feels to be invaded and lose their rights. Also the Conservative Party has a strong tenth house and was formed at the apex of Britain being a powerful innovator in the world in the 19th Century, as well colonisation. Brexit was supposed to be the beginning of the Power and Glory again – a new start in the world. The problem was, no-one in the Conservative Party looked closely enough to do the pros and cons.
The UK hasn’t ‘left’ in a functional way, it seems to just continue as before with imports and all. There is a bit more home grown veg and fruit and industry than before. Definitely EU workers who darted in and out of the UK tell me they can’t just do that any more without visas and work permits. I don’t know if that is good or bad with the fruit picking etc. that local people are not so attracted to do. On the other hand there is draconian legislation being passed, much of it cloak and dagger like 137 of Online Harms that will harm Freedom of Speech plus accelerated privatisations we are being kept unaware of. Then there is also the opposite of an increase in government size again after the fall of Thatcherism ideologies of late. It is a bit of a mixed bag. We are ‘In’ the EU and we are ‘Out’ of the EU at the same time. It is a typical sort of British response I feel.
@Rosemary: Tell that to small business owners! Without the customs union UK is definitely not ‘in’ any functional way for them at the moment. Only big business has the resources to ‘continue as before’ but at greater cost, adding to cost of living and weaker pound. That Brexit hasn’t much affected you personally doesn’t mean little has changed!
What I find interesting right now is how the world’s number 1 lobbyist – Zelensky – is playing the UK and the EU off against each other to get what he wants. Had the UK still been in the EU he would likely not have been as successful as he has been because of the necessity to reach consensus which tends to stand in the way of decisive action. It’s quite ironic really, in the matter of the defence of Ukraine, the UK is leading the EU and is seen to be doing so, as demonstrated by Macron’s hasty invitation to Zelensky to drop by for supper.
I am hopeful that at least some of the insanity of Brexit will eventually be rolled back. The Netherlands was chairing the EU at the time of the 2016 referendum and the day after the results were announced the UK was offered the Norway model. I know that because I was working for a government legal consultant involved with that process at the time. It was a good deal: a way to be both in and out at the same time! A way to keep almost everyone happy It could be again. I am pleased to see that the astrology is hopeful.
@bmc
My mom worked for the EU Commission in Luxembourg from 1969 until she turned 65 in 1994. I remember quite well when the UK joined the EEC, as it was called then, in 1973. Once in, it became quickly apparent that there was always pushback against membership including surrounding the Referendum of 1975. On the inside, the consensus among the commission staff was that the UK never really wanted to be onboard 100% and the “against” political voices were always loud all the way back to 1973.
Kipling’s building up with worn out tools? I loved ‘The Lost King’ (RIII film) so much.
And I had understood (the french) Marianne, but not Britannia until I saw The King (Henry V).
We need to refind our integrity as people and a nation:
If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you,
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
But make allowance for their doubting too;
If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
Or being lied about, don’t deal in lies,
Or being hated, don’t give way to hating,
And yet don’t look too good, nor talk too wise…..
I know Kipling was horrified by Empire when he lost his so in WWI, but Britannia is gentler – quality rather than bombast.
When I saw the acronym Plantes Aromatiques et Medicinales PAM) I became accepting of even the vulgarity of my name 🙂
With plants vulgaris means the unfrilly one with all the key elements you turn to at need? So the work is building in the key elements of your properties
?
Hope this isn’t too frilly.
lost his son
Not advocating Empire at all (hope this is clear).
Was Saturn in Gemini in 1973? Instead of Aquarius… sorry if I’ve made an error!
Saturn was in Gemini from the second half of 1971 through to 1974.
Thank you for the clarification; quite likely I misinterpreted a sentence in Marjorie’s post!
The current planned bonfire of EU legislation later this year which is supposed to be deregulatory (despite the fact that manufacturers are not in favour of it) is probably more intended to make it nigh impossible for any future government to rejoin, given that legal
harmonisation would be one of the conditions to be met. Just a precautionary spanner in the works, you might say.
On the day of the referendum, opinion polls said Remain had won 52-48 – which is why the markets gyrated so much when the result was a Leave win of 52 – 48.
Opinion polls also got the 2015, 2017 and 2019 general elections wrong. Astrologers have a much better record.
IMF predictions about the UK economy are also garbage. Who can forget that they predicted a Leave win would result in a severe recession in 2016 and 2017, with unemployment hitting 7%? Unemployment remained under 4% throughout (it’s currently 3.6%). Again, astrologers were more accurate.
There won’t be any re-joining because of the money side. Germany’s contribution to the EU has soared from €14bn in 2016 to €25bn in 2022, because of the soaring cost of the EU’s €800 billion covid debt. (The EU had thought it could borrow at 0.1%, but the market is charging them 2.8%, which is higher than French, Dutch, Austrian and German borrowing costs).
Would anyone in Britain like to cut disability benefits to divert the money so the EU can pay it’s debt? The answer is No.
On the astrology, the England 1066 astrology chart is influential (as the English are 85% of the UK’s population, and in referendums the weight of numbers counts).
At the time of the brexit referendum, Uranus and Ceres were at 23 Aries, exactly conjunct the England ascendant.
Going forward tr Pluto in Aquarius will approach the England Mars at 9 Aquarius in the 11th house. If anything, that will put the English in a fighting mood and make them even more hostile to the continent.
Should have added that the last time tr Pluto was conjunct the England Mars was 1784 – so picking fights with American colonists. Followed up with fighting the French.
“Would anyone in Britain like to cut disability benefits to divert the money so the EU can pay its debt? The answer is No.“
That’s a bit disingenuous.
Do you remember when all the money we saved from paying EU contributions went on the nhs? Me neither. In fact we have a number of excess deaths every week directly caused by treatment and ambulance delays as a result of underfunding and over stretching the system (or morons going to a & e with a headache and diversity managers if you choose to think that way)
Cutting disability benefits is always a Tory political choice.
I agree with Marjorie that it’s unlikely we will ever rejoin under the same conditions as we had the best possible deal and we lost it, and this may dampen the enthusiasm for closeness. But once the Tory grandees that sold us this and the media careers that were built on these lies see their influence wane, we will see a huge change on the appetite to at least ameliorate the worst consequences of Brexit.
The tories are trying to create a legislative context in which harmonisation differs so much it makes rejoining hard. Labour will not discuss Brexit or consider rejoin because they’re afraid of the toxicity of the debate. Starmer in particular seems to allergic to positioning himself on ant side of a toxic debate. Marjorie, since starmer is likely to be the next PM, could you look into his transits? But even in this context labours position is to make Brexit work and that means ironing out the worst parts of it.. and inevitably that will mean increasing (and by quiet stealth!) closeness with our neighbours while denying any desire to rejoin to keep the other side happy. The side that “feels” they won something and blames foreigners for the misery the tories have inflicted on us during the last decade.
@ Bmc, equally the EU may also realise that their hardline anti UK attitude is no longer useful to them either. Let’s hope so. The current situation is not helpful to anyone.
The EU doesnt have an anti UK attitude. The UK is a third country now and it’s treated as such (hence queues in airports and the rest). The EU is always going to look after its own interests first, of course. There have been a number of examples where the EU has offered the UK agreements in specific areas like education (erasmus) , travel for sectors badly affected by the loss of freedom of movement, like musicians, help with processing passports in France etc that the UK has rejected on ideological grounds. “Brexit would had been a success had it not been for the pesky EU” is simply another nebulous excuse for the lacklustre economic situation we find ourselves after imposing trade barriers on our country.
Thanks Marjorie how would you characterise from an astrology perspective the almost absolute aversion to the subject of Brexit even being discussed in any rational way? It is such an elephant in the room when our lamentable national decline is aired. Is it Neptune acting deceptively, knowing If the topic was fully aired the proponents ( sundry right wing media and charlatan politicians) would be exposed for the ruinous calamity it so clearly is?
@ gamal
if it can comfort you, not only the UK is in national decline. The whole western world as we have known it is disappearing fast. We are entering in europe in a recession. And probably a power ” reshuffel” between USA/Europe, Russia and China.
I heard to days rumors of the US dollar going bust very soon. We shall see.
Anyway, everybody is already having a very hard time. Businesses and families. Also in the EU the prices are soaring : especially energy and food. And it is only the beginning.
Pluto is doing its work of break and transform all right before leaving capricorn
Thank you Aline. Lets hope he does some potent regeneration when he gets into Aquarius….
Hmm. There is something toxic in the air as if certain topics are radioactive. E.g trans and in the USA Trump, in the UK Brexit. The true believers won’t let any daylight in and scream the place down if alternative realities are put to them.
It may be Neptune in Pisces in part – Neptune is no wuss and can be downright fanatical in defending a belief – a truly fascist state of mind, where no doubt or uncertainty is allowed.
At the best of times it is difficult to get people to shift their mindset. [See Kuhn’s Paradigm shift: – “All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.” (Arthur Schopenhauer). “A new scientific truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents and making them see the light but rather because its opponents eventually die, a new generation grows up that is familiar with it.” (Max Planck, physicist.)
It has always been thus politically if you think of Nazi Germany or in a milder version the pro and anti Maggie Thatcher lobbies. But it does seem marginally worse since Trump started his head-bending messing with facts and the truth – all backed up by the Californian goop speak – Meghan’s my-truth-has-validity whether the facts bear it out or not codswallop.
All arguments are subject to massive confirmation bias. If polls indicate your Brexit support was a mistake, then the polls are either faking it or incompetent and certainly not to be believed. The IMF has been wrong in the past and I don’t like what they are saying now so they can be discounted. The end result is I am always right and those who beg to differ are mutts, fakers and frauds. So I am never going to allow my view to be challenged.
Humankind can’t bear much reality. It is painful to face up to mistakes whether in beliefs or anything else – and with Neptune ruling the ideal, the underside is searing shame. It may be an indication of the fragility of the state of mind of the general culture that people cling on with grim desperation to their fantasies as if their life or mental stability depended on it. It would take a brave politician to walk into that firestorm and we don’t have too many of them around.
Thx Marjorie
I think the debate suffers greatly in part due to the sheer lack of quality among the mainly Tory MP’s. Any with intellect and gravitas have been removed by the frothing gammonatti and make way for the craven, thick and dishonest weirdos a la Gullis, Anderson, Braverman, Mogg and many many more. Its less a new government we need and more Elliot Ness. Im no Tory but do you think we’d be in this utter shambles if a Thatcher, Heseltine, Clarke, Blair and more, were at the helm?
Yes indeed, there is something toxic in the air! It is almost impossible to debate anything, and the unwillingness to discuss Brexit properly or ask questions is astonishing. Possibly the stubborness of Uranus in Taurus – an obstinate revolution? combined with Neptune in Pisces is part of it. Personally, I think pragmatism and money will eventually prevail. Some new kind of arrangements will eventually be made to ease trade and travel etc. Marjorie shows us signs of a shift, and I do also think the EU will be changing in the next few years as well. I hope something new can emerge from all of these transitions.
Re the old-school politicians Gamal cites – yes, I am no Tory either, but have a sneaking admiration for Ken Clarke in particular. He is often asked to comment I’ve noticed, and his remarks are invariably worth listening to. His knowledge and passion for jazz is impressive and endearing. Born 2 July, 1940, he has Mercury in Leo conjunct Pluto, connecting with that UK 1801 Yod. It must be a thought provoking phase for him now, with a Neptune opposition and natal Uranus in Taurus.
Really, most current politicians seem to be so two dimensional and frightened of social media etc. I cannot imagine Margaret Thatcher behaving like any of them! But how ever awful she could be, she was generally true to herself – and I think that came across. Her relationship with Gorbachev, for example, was interesting. Poles apart in some ways, but managing to work together as well.
@ Gamal, maybe not, but we’re not helped by an ineffective opposition. I totally get the let the tories destroy themselves tactic. It’s working well. But in the meantime, we need a lot more than the tories are rubbish, we’re nicer. Why are they not sufficiently confident to say what they think? Probably because fundamentally they are just as divided as the tories.
Starmer is pretty poor too I think, but thirteen years of this crowd and look at the state of things. Where does the buck stop?
Sadly your last sentence is what is missing in this country. “Brave politicians”. I am not sure whether transiting Pluto entering Aquarius in the UK’s 1801 Chart’s fourth house, will reinforce groupthink. To such an extent that no member of any political party, will even attempt to speak out. Or start to enlighten some Members of Parliament to break down the Capricorn iron rule, which has developed in our political parties. We need discussion to take place again. I would hope the latter, as Pluto moving through Capricorn has appeared to have brought Parliament to a stagnant place and entrenched old party “iron rule” beliefs. It appears their political parties are coming first before our country’s welfare. Something needs to happen to gain equilibrium, as it is unhealthy for this country to have every political party vying for the same thing. Challenges bring change. Many a post on many sites have the Capricorn absolute authority as ideal after the Brexit Referendum – it is as if despotism came to the U.K.
Helen, terrifying to hear that pluto entering the UK’s fourth house could reinforce group think. I was hoping Pluto would make us question the “current UK’s values”. Are we really an isolationist country, who treats people in need with contempt? Is it really us cheering for sinking immigrant boats, not feeding starving school kids, not cooperating with our neighbours, imposing trade barriers to ourselves, condoning corrupt politicians because they look/talk like out of a harry potter film, not looking after our doctors nurses, teachers etc? is this who we are?
bmc – Your Harry Potter film reference – have a wander around the House of Commons. It is Hogwarts! Creaking wood, dimly lit narrow corridors, vast echoing spaces, carvings and paintings and the feeling of being inside a Steam Punk fantasy! Perhaps when they all have to move out for desperately needed renovations (the mice infestation for one thing), they may wake up a little bit. Removing the subsidised bars might help as well…..
Agree with all your points Marjorie. I would only add that I think a problem is that it was never really purely about leaving the EU and brexit meant different things to different people. But what it tapped into fundamentally was broken trust.
Asking people about brexit is perhaps too confrontational for now. Before that, we should ask instead about equality and class and people’s experiences of that; the effects of extreme capitalism and deregulation; the effects of chronic underfunding of public services; whether they have felt listened to or whether they have felt marginalised. Then we need to make some acknowledgments and restore trust.
Only then can we approach brexit and deconstruct it. While people still feel marginalised for whatever reason, they will cling on.
Brexit makes me feel like watching a mob burn down a Library
Sorry, but your imagery is lost on me.
Imagine a mob of people who can’t read burning books…it’s the pointless destruction of something good by people proud of their idiocy
From the point of view of those doing the burning it isn’t idiocy. It’s handsome returns, a bigger share of the pie, direct influence on anything and everything unimpinged resulting in great business.
Now I am confused. How can burning a book be “a handsome return”? Isn’t burning any book attempting to stop another’s opinion or someone searching for opinions?
illiterate mob doing autodafé are usually manipulated into doing it. It is usually educated people or institutions who censure, or put books on index. Or push for books burning.
A mob will only burn books if it is cold and needs some fuel. Any fuel