



Saturn and Neptune have been a pervasive and often conflicting influence over the past fifteen years plus with Pluto moving through Saturn-ruled Capricorn and Neptune in Pisces doubling up its reality-twisting tendencies. They will come together from mid 2025 in a conjunction in Aries which French astrologer Andre Barbault, envisaged as bringing about a ‘new world civilization’ taking off with a ‘new age of humanity’ – ‘a significant rise in the standard of living of the underprivileged, of a victory over misery won in an unprecedented solidarity.’
Barbault’s soaring rhetoric focuses on the best of Saturn Neptune aided by being central to the Pluto in Aquarius Uranus in Gemini trine. “ We are faced with the possibility of a change such as to make it seem too weak the terms “change” or the same “upheaval” to define the breadth of what could transform the known world.”
While I am not convinced that the promised land is approaching in quite such lyrical terms, it is true that the present hyper-anxiety and gloom will shift in 2025.
Understanding the nature – pluses and minuses – of Saturn and Neptune, both in individual charts and out in the universe can be helpful. The below is a pull together of two old posts.
SATURN
Saturn has had an undeservedly malefic reputation. Death, disaster, failure, depression, delays, lack of self-worth. All gloom, doom and misery.
I’ve always been very grateful for my Saturn – it induces a strong work ethic, instils a sense of discipline over time, is practical, realistic and provides a backbone when the mush threatens to take over. Even better, where Saturn is marked in a chart, it gets easier the older you get. The negative side reigns over the first third of life; it mellows through the middle third; and the final third becomes everything that wasn’t there at the start – warmer, more supportive, consolidated.
Saturn is essentially about structure in earthly terms. It plans, prepares, thinks long term to a feasible goal, then gets foundations laid, builds slowly and securely so its achievements stand the test of time. The end result of its endeavours is not necessarily aesthetic, since it isn’t concerned with cosmetic fripperies, but it is enduring.
Ruling Capricorn, it has the same steady ambition, which is willing to forego instant gratification for long term goals. Like the symbolic mountain goat, it starts in the foothills and works its way up to the peak, along a winding path if necessary.
Saturn restricts, so oversees limits and boundaries which may not feel like fun but are essential, psychologically as well as practically, in life. Neptune dissolves boundaries, Pluto invades across them to grab all the territory, Uranus blows them up, but Saturn stands firm for order, delineation, marked borders. In action, it is like a gardener who prunes plants back, lopping off overgrown branches, to stimulate fresh growth and produce a more manageable shape.
Often called a money-grubbing scrooge, Saturn is concerned with material security and can be less than generous and open-hearted. Again that’s down to its earthly nature and liking for boundaries. ‘Me and mine’ come first.
Not that Saturn is a delight at close quarters in intimate relationships. It can be cold, putting up a defensive wall against any encroachment, tending to put things above feelings, and is better at ‘doing’ than ‘being’.
The myth of Saturn eating his children depicted in a horrific Goya painting is apt, since it ties into his obsessions with time and mortality. Saturn was scared of being overthrown by his sons so he ate them at birth. Deep down he knows he is going to die and his children represent a future that he can never possess, since his is limited by his mortal span. He both loves and loathes the boundaries of his life, so he tries to over-ride them and stop time.
Having Saturnine parents means facing two things – their envy and their ability to induce misplaced guilt on their child. The Saturnine father pushes and pushes his children to be a success, being excessively critical of any failures, making them feel they never achieve enough to satisfy him, so damaging the child’s self-esteem though it can helpfully induce a driving need to be a success. But deep down the father’s fear is that they might outdo him, become more successful and outlive him. It’s difficult to cope with since if the child grown to adult became stratospherically successful, the father would shrivel, feel worthless himself and be consumed with envy. So it’s a no win situation, until the child/adult separates enough to understand it’s the father’s issue, not theirs.
The Saturnine mother on the other hand insinuates into the child a sense that they are responsible for her depression; and their role in life is to look after her and make her happy. She makes a bad, under-nurturing mother but expects her offspring to give her the caring she never gave them.
The mythological Saturn showed his other face at the autumn festivals of the harvest, when the agricultural bounty of the year was brought in and drunken celebrations ensued after the hard work was done. Earthly delights are also his preserve and his reign was seen as one of peace and plenty. Despite the devouring father, he’s associated with the flow of the seasons, especially winter when everything dies back to be reborn in spring.
Capricorn as a sign is unfairly dubbed as the cold, materialistic workaholic, but in fact has a highly creative and (indulgent) side. The old Capricorn symbol was half goat half fish. He operates in two realms – in the watery realm of ideas and visions and then makes them real on dry land. He is the stander on the threshold between the unconscious and the conscious; just as Capricorn stands on the cusp of the year that has past and the year that is about to come. He both mourns and celebrates.
Successful people tend to operate in a Saturnine way. Maggie Thatcher’s career moved to the transits of Saturn – into the Cabinet when tr Saturn moved up across her Descendant into her third quadrant, became PM when tr Saturn moved across her midheaven. Then she ignored its hints in the latter years of her tenure as it moved into her lower-profile first quadrant, when she should have been winding down, but given her temperament couldn’t do it. She was summarily ejected when her Solar Arc Saturn was exactly square her focal point Sun. Saturn can raise to great heights through excessively hard work, but it is a hard taskmaster when lessons are not learned.
Richard Nixon on the other hand was forced to resign facing impeachment charges when tr Saturn was moving through his 10th (supposedly the peak). That was when Saturn’s iron rule ‘you reap what you sow’ came into play, and Nixon’s chickens came home to roost. The god of the harvest knows that only careful preparation at the right time, clearing the ground, sowing seeds, tending to the growing crops, sticking to the rules, will provide the cornucopia. If you don’t put in the sweat and planning and try to bend the rules, it brings retribution.
Neptune:
Neptune as befits its mysterious nature has had a confused image in astrology. Describing it as slippery and evasive, impractical and low energy, as well as fostering dreams and visions, kindness and compassion, the traditional write-ups miss vital characteristics both positive and negative. Top athletes who need exceptional physical endurance often have strong Neptune aspects to their Suns. Successful businessmen and explorers are often Pisces, which is ruled by Neptune. It can also be inhumanely cruel – viz. the Nazi doctor Josef Mengele was a Pisces Sun trine Neptune. John Gacy, who raped and killed at least 33 teenage boys, was a New Moon in Pisces opposition Neptune.
In mythology Neptune ruled the watery oceans and waged war on Athena, who ruled the land. As an act of aggression he raped Medusa in Athena’s temple, in revenge for which she was banished to the far wilderness. Sacrifice and victimhood falls in Neptune’s realm. The sea can be cruel, certainly cold, changeable, is liable to brew up into monstrous storms, can chip away relentlessly at rocky coastlines until they collapse.
Christianity according to Carl Jung was the iconic symbol for the two thousand year Age of Pisces, ruled by Neptune. Yet Christianity, despite its love and tolerance motif, has at its heart an image of gruesomely bloody torture and the acute physical suffering of a forsaken son. Neptune has a dissolving action so physical dismemberment is part of his lexicon.
Neptune rules religion, associated with endless examples of atrocities, from the Crusades, the Inquisition, the murderous Protestant versus Roman Catholic centuries, more recently Al Quada and fundamentalist Islam. Being obsessed by an all-encompassing Neptunian vision can obliterate everything that is human.
Creativity, which is also one of Neptune’s talents, was born out of Medusa’s beheading when Pegasus, the winged horse, was set free. Again there is a paradox about Neptune – revelling in brutality of the bloodiest variety in order to set free the ideal. An eternal war between the physical world and the spirit. You can’t get one without the other.
Merged with other planets Neptune can be a powerful force and not always for the good. Neptune Pluto is super-ambitious, scandal prone and megalomaniac. Neptune Uranus can be fanatical as well as inspired. Neptune Saturn is associated with epidemics, paranoia, mental instability as well as social reform. Neptune Jupiter rules high-finance, bankers and the like, as well as dodgy gurus. Dualistic to the end.
Where Neptune can move mountains is in the minds and hands of a few who are capable of focusing so much determination and practical application on their vision they can make it real. Together with Saturn and backed up by an inspired Pluto trine Uranus, who knows?
“Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act out their dream with open eyes, to make it possible.” T.E. Lawrence.