Amy Winehouse, the soulful singer and songwriter known for her haunting soul, rhythm and blues and jazz performances, who soared then crashed and burned is being remembered ten years on from her death. Born into a musical family on 14 September 1983 10.25pm (from memory), London, she started performing early and by 24 had six Grammy nominations. She also by that stage had a violent co-dependent husband in jail and paparazzi hounding her through well-publicised drug, alcohol and mental health problems. Her death at 27 was deemed accidental alcohol poisoning since she was off drugs then.
Her Neptune, planet of music, creativity and escapism was the key planet in her chart being square her Virgo Sun Mercury, conjunct her Capricorn Moon, trine Mars Venus in Leo and sextile Pluto Saturn. She had the heavyweight Saturn Pluto in her 5th house of entertainment and performance. I’d hazard a guess that her birth time might be a touch earlier since she was close to a grandmother and an 8th house Moon, even Neptune, would make sense – and would move her Sun towards her 5th house.
She also had North Node in Gemini on her Ascendant so she would be troubled by a lack of a strong sense of her own identity. Her Moon in the 7th suggests she needed a partner for security and would be dependent.
Her creative 5th Harmonic was strong as was her genius/breakthrough 13H. But so were her self-defeating 10H and 16H harmonics and her victim 12H.
When she died tr Pluto was on the cusp of her 8th house conjunct her Progressed Moon, so she was on the verge of a critical and potentially transformative, but hugely challenging time. Her Solar Arc Moon was square her Pluto which would do nothing to help lighten her mood.
Several others died at 27 – Janis Joplin, Kurt Cobain, Jimi Hendrix, Jim Morrison. It is the North Nodal Half Return – usually a hint to take stock and rebalance life. The nearest astrological pointer to Amy Winehouse’s demise was Janis Joplin, born 19 January 1943, died 4 October 1970 of an accidental heroin overdose. At the point of her death she had her Solar Arc Moon conjunct her Pluto, and tr Pluto on the cusp of her 8th house.
Many people soldier on through Pluto transiting their 8th house which isn’t easy but does require grit and stamina. It may have been too much for fragile physical and mental health damaged by years of abuse.
My husband and I once saw a documentary on Billie Holliday, it bothered me quite a lot, considering her abusive past and what she had been through: as to why she chose such awful men to be her significant others.
My husband pointed out to me that she would have targeted such men because they would have been the only ones to offer her any protection. I have always wondered if that was true.
I would have thought it owed more to her turbulent and abusive childhood. She would unerringly head for what felt familiar however damaging it was for her. She had Mars square Saturn Pluto so fear would have been all she knew from square one onwards. And she obviously wasn’t able to break that chain of violence and died at 44 of alcohol abuse.
Which transiting planet has most – or worst – effect on an individual does depend to an extent on the chart. Very Saturnine sorts won’t react as badly to a phase of Saturn transits. And I faintly recollect Liz Greene saying Neptunian types can sometimes thrive or have positive outcomes from heavy Neptune transits.
On Gnarly Dude’s point about no relatives dropping dead when Pluto moved into his 8th – different individuals react differently to the same influences. There is a broadly similar spectrum of outcomes but it ranges across:
1) A literal and concretised acting out
2) Some people somatise – act it out in their body/health
3) Others process it internally at an emotional/psychological level.
There’s not really any way to tell from the chart which route anyone will follow though you can usually tell from past experience.
I agree that neptune aspects can be worse than Pluto. I had transiting neptune opposed my saturn last year and I was diagnosed with Alopecia universalis-I lost all my hair! There were significant solar arcs also. AMY
‘If you identify with it then it that’s all that matters’ I dont think this is true ‘your truth’ postmodernist ideas of there being no objective truth or fact, only what you ‘feel’ are one of the reasons we are currently in such a mess and groups are increasingly at odds with each other, and allowing themselves to be pitted against each other.
Astrology is interpretive, but it is ultimately logical in the way it sets out its systems, and those systems are not there as a pick and mix option to what appeals and what does not. House, sign and planet energy are distinct and different. Mars in the 12th house is not exactly the same as Mars in Pisces. If this were not true we would have no needs for the separate groupings. I have been through both Pluto transiting conjunct Moon, have a natal Moon Pluto aspect and have had Pluto traversing my 8th, they are distinctly different and hand waving away those differences stops us being able to identify the nuance and difference.
TrisKit: “Pluto transiting the 8th is no joke.” I can well imagine. I’ve had Pluto excavating my 12th house since 2008. Truly hellish inner journey–rife with demons from the past. Dark night of the soul, etc. Through it all, the lord of the underworld has diligently been doing his painfully transformative thing, forcing me to dig deep, own up and grow up. I’m not the person I used to be–thanks to horrible-beautiful Pluto.
Hmm, long time since Pluto was going through my 12th – and I truly thought armageddon was coming. Just a black blank wall ahead of me. But I managed to get through university and emerge with a degree much to my astonishment. Can’t say I recollect too much insight dawning since this was a very long time back. And I didn’t trip into astrology until much later. But looking back it does make me more sympathetic to myself for having trawled through all of that bouncing across innumerable 12th house planets.
Thanks Marjorie. So sad doesn’t even cover it really, Amy was so talented and charismatic. Both Dusty Springfield (16 April 1939) and Billie Holiday (7 April 1915) had those mesmerising voices and talent too. Both women had addiction problems with drugs and alcohol, and mental health issues.
They both have Pisces planets – Billie – Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter – Dusty, Moon, Venus, Jupiter. Both also, like Amy, have Saturn/Pluto aspects – Dusty has Sun conjunct Saturn square Pluto, while Billie has Saturn conjunct Pluto square her Mars/Mercury in Pisces. Of course, as you might expect, Neptune makes a strong appearance as well.
Personally, I’ve found Pluto transits deep and dark, but ultimately constructive. Neptune transits, on the other hand, are so slippery and seem to herald the strangest of losses and much, sometimes terrible, confusion and slow household leaks (!). Neptune quincunx Mercury, for instance, brought a slow but damaging leak from my next door neighbours’ pipes into the wall in my hall. These pipes were buried in the floor next door, and took quite a while to trace the leak. The whole thing went on for months. My natal Neptune is nicely aspected, but on the borders of the 4th/5th house. Even it’s natal position is slippery!
Jane, I note the mutable signs are often emphasised in the charts of poets, singers, singer songwriters and authors. I recall Maria Callas’ Sagittarian Jupiter, Sun, Mercury. Dusty was of the Neptune in Virgo generation thus her Piscean Moon/Venus/Jupiter was opposed by that Neptune which May have really amplified her addictive tendencies.
Jane – I had about seven consecutive years of Neptune transits during the last decade. I’d say they were harder to deal with than Pluto. My opinion is that strong, independent person like myself can handle Pluto; but Neptune forces you to be more dependent and vulnerable.
Well I can sure attest to Neptune transits making you dependent and vulnerable: Neptune going through the 8th opposing my four 2nd house planets (sun, uranus, pluto, venus) washed away my career and earning capacity – totally. Dependent and vulnerable isn’t the half of it. I’m just waiting for a Saturn to start its transit through my 8th in a year or so. I can predict I won’t enjoy it (or possible even survive it).
Thanks everyone. Always helpful to hear others’ experiences, particularly with Neptune. I agree about the dependant and vulnerable thing, but what’s tricky is the knowing how to trust those you turn to for help. In a number of examples for me, that involved workmen of various kinds and when it came to the leaking roof (Neptune conjunct MC – perfect) it wasn’t a pleasant process. The other side of Neptune – film, music, art, mysteries etc is something I very much enjoy. Pluto was Neptune’s brother in myth, but I know which challenging brother I would prefer!
Pluto has been transiting my 8th house, with Capricorn being on the cusp of my 8th, since it entered in January 2008. It’s been hugely transformative for me right off the bat, which speaks to the power of the sign and house change when working with whole sign houses. (But my 8th house Placidus cusp is at 14 Capricorn, which means Pluto in Cap started in my 7th house for non-whole sign purposes.) I’ve been dealing with HUGE amounts of drama and challenges and change in both my personal and professional lives (Pluto squaring my Sun conjunct BML in Libra/4th, squaring Eris in Aries/10th, opposing Mars and Pallas in Cancer/2nd)… dramas of the type I hadn’t experienced before. It has honestly been hell to go through. But I’m in a totally different place in life now. Things got a little better in mid-2016, were a lot better by mid-2018, and are actually really good now. My husband and I now own a modest home and I’m in college training for a new career. Admittedly, I was self-medicating with alcohol for several of those years and have had to address that. While I was not literally suicidal during those years, I’m sure I melodramatically and metaphorically wished aloud for death a few times. Pluto transiting the 8th…is no joke.
Pluto went through my 8th and changed me from a victim mentality to an empowered one. I went from being a dependent to independent person – stopped expecting others to protect my feelings. I became deeply interested in psychology and personal growth – owned my experience rather than projecting blame. I took on my mortgage (8th house debt) as I bought my house and paid it off as quickly as I could (empowering self from tyranny of debt!).
The first three years I was in abject misery because I’d just been dumped by a woman I was deeply in love with. Started writing a regular diary to help me work through that. It took me almost a decade to get over her. The whole 8th house period taught me about accepting emotions and working through the grief cycle. (Elizabeth Kubler-Ross had significant 8th house placements).
I don’t actually remember it as being that awful – but that’s the benefit of learning how to process emotional pain. But if I think hard about it, I can find many days which were tough. I had a subconscious attraction to getting involved with wounded women who consequently made my life difficult. I know to avoid them like the plague now. (Prince Harry take note).
When Pluto finally exited, I remember how life seemed to become lighter, slightly more optimistic. The dark 8th house attitude had become a norm without realising it. Interesting to look at how different Pluto in 9th has been – lots of learning but a much more existential and nihilist “dont care” view.
I had a bunch of other transits going on through those years; but with my 8th house being Sag I was probably more open to the introversion than Amy with her Cap 8th.
Thanks for this, really helpful.
One other thought – no-one in the family died in those 13 years which goes against cookbook warnings.
Had five close family members die since Pluto finished in the 8th but they were all over eighty so not unexpected.
I went through Pluto’s transit to my Scorpio stellium when only very young and it was one of the most painful experiences of my life. When Pluto was on my Moon I nearly died after a suicide attempt. I would assume (perhaps incorrectly) that it would be similar to Pluto’s transit through the 8th, because I very much identity with your description of that process of breaking down and rebuilding your life. For me, the rebuilding consisted of discovering astrology (my Mother was studying it at the time) as a useful tool to self-understanding. I came across Liz Greene’s ‘Astrology of Fate’ and it had quite a profound effect at the time.
Thank goodness I will probably never experience Pluto’s transit into my 8th (unless I live to over 100 that is!) though I’m not particularly looking forward to it squaring my Moon when it enters Aquarius.
If you identify with it then it that’s all that matters. Scorpio and 8th house are obviously related, and contain the murky depths of the subconscious that we’d prefer not to look at eg taboo subjects especially. You made it through thankfully.
I’ve had the lot through the 8th house. Neptune when I was born, followed by Uranus, along with Saturn during it. A few years break then Pluto to the point and I was almost forty. I thought the second go-around of Saturn through it would be a breeze, but was quite surprised by what it brought.
Maybe these things are easier when you are alone and have lots of time to sit and reflect.
Many famous jazz musicians are born under the sign of Virgo.
Charlie Parker, John Coltrane, Art Pepper, Wayne Shorter, Phil Seaman, Horace Silver, Dinah Washington, Emily Remler,
Elvin Jones, Cannonball Adderley, Harry Connick Jnr, and of course Amy. Sadly many of them were destroyed by
addictions to drugs and alcohol. No star sign is immune to heroin or long-term alcoholism.
My husband had transiting pluto going thru his 8th house when he died, separating from natal uranus and applying to a opposition to natal mars. I personally have neptune in my 10th house semi-square natal sun–ex social worker and I have 2 autoimmune disorders
Her good friend Mark Ronson was getting a name for himself as a talented music producer, when they decided to work on ‘Back to Black’ together, an album that elevated both their talents and made them both famous, its a shame he has no birth time, it would be interesting to see their collaboration astrologically.
Pluto moving through the 8th house really is like living with Hades in the underworld without Demeter around to negotiate a break, i am sure there are other transits as bad but it does kill off a part of you. I read at the time that she felt she was in a better place mentally, was not long out of rehab but started drinking again, its not a moon where you look after yourself well and Pluto conjunct probably brought out all the latent Cap depressive thoughts.
Remember seeing her not long after the release of her first album before she was mega famous. She was v drunk on stage. I have seen a lot of Neptune in the chart of heavy drinkers, turns up like a bad penny. I also heard once that Mercury Virgos indicate a lot of talent when young or in appealing to young people but struggle with their talents as they ‘mature’. I’m a natal Merc in Virgo as well and while no real talent to speak of, great promise at school has amounted to very little.
When she first came on the scene I thought she was a flash-in-the-pan freak. Then I heard her sing. Oh my, what a huge talent. I’m always surprised when a Virgo goes off the rails a la Winehouse. That sign is so sensible, practical, grounded. At least, that’s been my experience with Virgos. Of course, I realize that I’m generalizing–negative aspects can muddy the lives of even the purest Virgins.