Lucy Letby – taking pleasure from inflicting pain

51 thoughts on “Lucy Letby – taking pleasure from inflicting pain”

1. From wikipedia: “On the fourth day of trial, the prosecution presented a handwritten note from Letby which said “I am evil, I did this,” and that she “killed them on purpose” because she “couldn’t take care of them.” It further stated “I killed them” and “I’ll never marry or have children, I’ll never know what it’s like to have a family”.

   She smiled whilst bathing the dead babies. The clue is she ‘couldn’t take care of them’. She could only meet their needs after they were dead. A very neptunian/cancerian/saturnian scene. You get the impression she was living in a trance-like state; she looks out of it in the photo. Plus a bit of the ‘if i cant have it, you can’t have it either’ syndrome like women who steal others’ babies taken to extreme. I am fascintated by parent/child astrology – you could probably fathom what her asc. is from looking at their charts, sadly not possible.

   To those who are skeptical, read the full article on wiki. She appears to have assaulted some of the babies. Many were healthy and deaths came out of the blue which rarely happens – let alone a a cluster over of 2 or 3 months. There’s no doubt that she was ably assisted by NHS administrators who, tragically for the NHS, control the medical staff. they were told not to make a fuss. one was even ordered to apologise to letby for making “allegations”.

   There seems to be a perversion of the mother archetype and the nurturing instinct in these cases involving doctors/nurses who are disproportionately represented among the psychopathic serial killers, particularly in terms of women. Power through a disfigured concept of ‘caring’. Being led astray and copycatting is commonly observed – an impressionable cancer trait. Its interesting how often a significant cancer placement features in the charts of many killers. Myra Hindley (cancer ‘led astray’ by capricorn Ian Brady) whose crimes against children were regarded as literally inconceivable at the time for a woman.
   Graham Young – the teacup poisoner. A tiny, squirming weasel of a man inside whose sense of his own impotence was so overwhelming he idolised Hitler. He mimicked (virgo) William Palmer – infamous 19th c. poisoner – even adopting a 19th style of writing and communication and started poisoning people at a young age including his step mother – who died from it. Young had Mars in Cancer. So did Shipmen and John Bodkins Adams – another GP serial killer, a poisoner.

   Some brilliant analysis on here.

   As an aside, I do a lot of work in safeguarding of children, sun signs cancer and capricorn are definitely over-represented among the offenders.

2. The item in Letby’s chart I find most troubling is the fact her Mars is almost exactly conjunct the fixed star Rastaban or Alwaid. The star lies in the constellation of Draco. When Mars is activated it can be an indicator of someone who either enjoys inflicting pain and suffering or who has been the victim of it in a past existence. The star name in Arabic means “the one who is to be destroyed”. It can indicate someone who discovers the hidden intentions of others. Lilley warned those with the star highlighted in their chart to beware the “deceipt of enemies”. Arabic astrologers noted Rastaban could signify plots, sedition, or the freeing of captives. Pluto was conjunct Rastaban when the twin towers were attacked on 11/09/2001. It should be noted that people other than murderers have the Mars/Rastaban aspect including Mariah Carey.

3. https://i.postimg.cc/4y3YfdtJ/Nurse-Lucy-Rectified.jpg
   Harmonics 8 and 18 are strong in serial killer charts….here they are…
   https://i.postimg.cc/cL2mjv2G/Lucy-Harmonic-Charts.jpg
   Her H8 has T-Square, Lucy = Mars/Pluto = Saturn…”brutality, cruelty”
   Her H18 has T-square, Mars/Neptune = Pluto…”desire to harm others”
   Sepharial on her natal Neptune in 12Capricorn….”subtle & crafty,
   leading a predatory life…there will be incidents which cannot bear the
   light of day…the nature is cruel, crafty…will be in danger of imprisonment.”
   Her natal Sun-Saturn gave her low self-esteem. Her natal Sun square
   Moon & opposed Chiron, thwarted her ability to care, nurture & heal babies.

4. Thinking about her guilt or possible innocence, the one thing that haunts me is how could she not be a complete wreck after this many babies had died unexpectedly on her watch. This would be enough to break the spirit of most people. They’d be in counselling, they’d be traumatised, they’d take leave from work, they’d struggle to continue….and yet she was eager to continue to work, to return to work, to keep going…..that is the one thing that just doesn’t sit right. And she wasn’t happy unless she was working with the most vulnerable babies, and yet on her watch they were dying at alarming rates. It’s disturbing. It should’ve been noticed. She should’ve been broken. I think she was hiding in plain sight.

   Which I feel is a very apt expression of Sun-Neptune in Capricorn. But it’s the Chiron opposition to that Sun that is hidden, that is masked, that is rejected, projected, and operates in the shadows. I think her opposition is the key, and I think she doesn’t “own” the Chiron in Cancer: the wounded mother is projected out into the world. She is blinded and deluded by her own Neptune-Sun in Capricorn, professional, committed, above-board. I feel with these dynamics that she cannot “see” what she is doing, that her shadow is the wounded mother and she’s casting it out from herself and into the world. I think she’s hiding even from herself. What she’s done has to be mental illness. And I think astrology supports this.

   The Neptune-Sun-Saturn opposite Chiron is a heavy aspect to have, and square Aries Moon I think it signals self-deception (she is blind to her own actions) and she projects Chiron’s maternal wound out into the world without self-consciousness. I doubt she would even recognise that she is guilty. But I think she is. I think the chart confirms some very difficult dynamics that make sense of what’s happened in a very tragic unconscious way. The disorders that have been mentioned are very probable given the astrological dynamics.

   • Astute analysis, Loujay.

     • Just out of interest, I looked a bit further into it yesterday and realised Letby has a similar astrological signature to Vladimir Putin. They both have Sun-Saturn-Neptune-Mercury stelliums. Putin’s is in Libra, Letby’s is in Capricorn, and she has the addition of Uranus.

       I know Putin’s stellium is in the 12th house, and if Letby’s was also in the 12th house (as someone mentioned somewhere else) it would make A LOT OF SENSE…it would indicate a personal “blindspot” and something karmic that has to be lived out through the collective (this is how I read 12th house dynamics)…

       So I started mucking around a bit to figure out what Letby’s chart would look like if her stellium was in the 12th house, and lo and behold it puts Scorpio on the midheaven with Pluto close by. Guess who also has that signature? Putin. And it could be read as: people who are famous for personifying evil and the dark side of human nature. Obviously not everyone with these signatures are going to be like this, but I found it a chilling connection. I think the chart connections between these two public figures might be showing us the real potential in this signature for self-deluded blind-spots, acting out something in the collective, and a strong desire for power and control that ends in a public reputation of “evil”.

       Also, if her stellium is in the 12th, it gives her a Capricorn ascendant. She has been described as “beige”, and that she could also appear “shy and reserved”…shy is not exactly a Capricorn trait, although ‘beige’ definitely fits. So I am also considering flipping it around, giving her a Cancer ascendant, and putting Chiron and Jupiter in the 12th. Might also make sense. But takes away the Scoprio midheaven.

       From an astrological perspective we could narrow down likely time of birth based on a process of elimination of Ascendants given what we can see of her, and how she’s been described. Has anyone else experimented with this?

       • Just to correct myself slightly: Putin has Pluto on the midheaven but IN LEO.
         Letby has Pluto in Scorpio, and we don’t know where it sits without her birth-time.

5. What needs to be more accepted is Karma: and that evil does get a just conviction for Its deeds. The Eye for an Eye vindication over (sometimes) many Lifetimes should be enough of a deterrent, if it’s more of a part of whatever a ‘religion’ is meant to be all about! Those verging on ‘anathema’ because of their can’t buy their way into redemption! This thought consoles me with all the horrible stuff that bedevils this World. Justice has Her Ways, and a keen eye!

6. All the murders and attempted murders were of twins and triplets. But there must have been loads of non-twin babies on the neonatal unit, who appear to have been left alone.

   Someone mentioned Letby’s birth was difficult – did her mother use IVF and was a twin lost?

   If Virgoflake is right and she had Pluto in Scorpio rising, that would place the Moon in the 6th house (NHS) and Ceres in Gemini in the 8th. Pluto is quincunx both the Moon and Ceres.

7. Sun/Saturn in Capricorn could relate to a parent, perhaps the Father? Her Capricorn Uranus is in semi-sextile to her Aquarian Venus, would manifest as a different love from the norm, hence her relationship with a married man. The unobtainable. As he didn’t leave his partner for her. Whilst he could have! There isn’t any personal planets in water, therefore it may have been difficult for her to be in contact with her emotions. Chiron, the wound that never heals, is in Cancer, the house of home and parents, with its ruling planet the Moon in Aries. This again is an indication of something in childhood never actually healing. Looking at this chart, I felt her childhood not to be what it appeared, as her Neptune/Sun conjunction would be dampened down feelings in Capricorn. Pluto was transiting Capricorn for her entire nursing career, this would also have challenged her Pluto/Saturn conjunction, bringing up deep seated feelings and forcing her to look at some hidden wounds. Pluto is linked to sexual needs and Saturn control. Perhaps she couldn’t control a married man or her own needs? We also do not know what triggered this killing spree. Again, looking at her chart, I felt that she could have been pregnant herself at some time and made to get rid of it, or wanted to. None of us know if a baby was conceived at some point. Yet Jupiter is opposite Uranus. With Pluto transmitting Uranus and activating her third our Jupiter/Uranus opposition young children would be brought to the surface in some way. This may have been the triggering time? In fact none of us know the deep isolation or loneliness which may have been within her. There are some very good comments on this thread as well as Marjorie’s. I also feel – looking at her chart – that this is more complicated than first thought!

8. The last of Pluto in Capricorn exposing inept management and the ruthlessness of protecting a trust’s reputation over the safeguarding of children. Sadly although I’m shocked and saddened, I’m not surprised

9. The photograph of Lucy Letby is revelatory in its self-absorption; and lack of personal responsibility for the heinous murders. Almost as though there’s another personality within her psychic design? As for the ‘management team’ who resisted any investigations, I completely agree with your comments. It’s been said that we should never hold ‘romantic views’ about those who go about ‘doing good.’ Some have very ‘not good’ ones. My head is in my hands, when I think about the SO MANY inadequate folk who have so much power. And my feeling that humanity is at a tipping point.

10. I often look at the charts of people who have done terrible things and you can see tension in the chart but it doesn’t necessarily stand out as the chart of someone destined to commit evil. But the chart of Lucy Letby does stand out. A stellium of Saturn/Sun/Neptune all square Moon would be almost unbearable. I wonder she had an accentuated 12th house, as she clearly kept her inner torment well hidden.

11. Sister Cruel. Went against every rule of the Nurses Pledge

12. It is interesting how so many seem to have such easy access to insulin as opposed to other types of drugs. Insulin isn’t a drug that I would think of in connection with babies in the neonatal unit of a hospital. Though I suppose anyone can be diabetic.

13. I wonder whether the killing of babies in particular among the serial killers you mention is reflected with both Saturn (who ate his own children in myth) and negative aspects to planets in Aries the child – Moon in Aries for Letby, Saturn in Aries for Allitt.

    We have quite our share of serial killers in the US (or maybe they’re just been found out and mediatized) – our latest being, allegedly, Rex Heuermann of Long Island, NY, recently arrested after evading the law for over a decade. Unfortunately there doesn’t seem to be any birth data for him online, only at best a 1964 year (and even that is contradicted by one site stating 1963). Would have loved your analysis if his info were available – and find it a possibe indication of his character that it’s not…

    • Billy Baldwin class of 81 lamented that Gilgo killer was a classmate at Massapequa High. 1963 seems likelier, unless a grade was skipped…

14. During the times of the murders Pluton was actually transiting between her Sun and Saturn, by conjunction, and Uranus was also in conjunction with her Moon,which reactivated her natal square.

15. I am not an astrologer but a nurse and midwife with 46 years experience and there is something about this case that troubles me. Nurses in any high dependency situations do not work in isolation but as part of a team. There are checks and balances both formal and informal to ensure safe care. I know from experience that ITU and Neonatal staff have ‘eyes in the back of their heads’ Caring for patients who can’t communicate requires a high level of observational skills and intuition and yet I haven’t read one comment from her nursing colleagues. Plenty of doctors seem to have had strong suspicions but not one nurse. This is odd. In my experience nurses are always watching and quietly assessing other nurses especially those recently qualified. There are careful handovers at the beginning and end of every shift, drugs are locked away and I find it hard to believe that none of her nursing colleagues thought to join up the dots, only the doctors, who aren’t on the unit for hours at a time but come and go as and when needed. There is no doubt that much of what has been revealed in the press is damming, she shouldn’t have copies of patients records at home and her postit notes are almost confessional. Just a few thoughts from someone who has spent many years working in hospitals.

    • There doesn’t seem to be any real proof that she did anything. Nobody caught her in the act. Maybe they should have set up CCTV early on.

      • She seems intelligent enough to have varied her methods of killing so that a pattern would be harder to spot. I would credit her with the ability to find ways to avoid CCTV or give believable explanations if anything arose. It might have slowed her down but I don’t think it would have stopped her.

        While the evidence against her is circumstantial, the indications are that the mortality rate was increased specifically during the shifts when she was on duty. Also her reactions in court – give many clues to her guilt. When she was cross-examined by the KC, she quickly unwound going from confident to barely audible as he exposed how her testimony had no consistency i.e. she was making it up as she went along.

    • I am glad that there is a least one person on here who shares my reservations about this verdict. It should be noted that a couple of barristers not involved in the case have already gone on public record expressing concerns about the trial and the verdict. Under English Criminal law the case has to be proved beyond reasonable doubt and I am not sure that this was achieved at this trial. It is a prosecution constructed almost entirely on circumstantial evidence presented some years after the events occurred. Moreover, since no autopsies were carried out on the dead children at the time physical forensic evidence was largely absent from the trial. The clinching factor for the jury appears to been firstly the concerns raised by two consultants at the hospital with the hospital management about Letby and secondly the self confessional notes penned by the nurse that were presented as evidence to the jury. It is not clear whether these notes were written before or after Letby was put under suspicion as I think it is arguable that might have had a direct the defendants state of mind and impacted how she wrote about the accusations made against her. Letby also seems also to have been in some form of relationship with a married registrar on the ward which further complicates matters and might account for her high ward attendance record. I suspect there was a lot more going on here than just the selectively presented evidence produced by the prosecution.

      It should be noted that this Chester hospital is not the only NHS institution to have experienced high numbers of neonatal deaths recently. East Kent Trust was in the news last year because of 45 deaths of infants with many more suffering long term harm due to poor care. Indeed a fifth of all U.K. hospital trusts are red rated because of excess infant mortality and other poor medical outcomes. I am finding it slightly difficult to believe that all these institutions are harbouring psychopathic nurses. The suspicion must be that there might have been other reasons for this Chester neonatal units poor performance. I hope that at the very least there is a judge led public inquiry to look at the wider situation here.

      With regard to Letby one must hope that the jury has got this right. Otherwise we could be in for a repeat of the Guildford 4, Birmingham 6, Stephen Kiszko and the various other miscarriages of justice where “obviously guilty” people were convicted to years in prison only subsequent to be exonerated.

      • Blood test on one of the infants revealed elevated synthetic insulin that could not have been produced naturally. The child was murdered by someone who knew what they were doing. The fact that the synthetic insulin on the blood test was somehow missed at the time is extraordinary.

        Letby also displayed a consistent pattern of behaviour of breaking her professional distance not just with the married colleague but making memory boxes for the parents, stalking them on social media etc

        The doctors became suspicious after looking at the data; the distance away from the coal face and being a bit removed probably helped them see it.

        Sometimes there is no direct evidence but you have to look at the data and the probability. There is forensic evidence of at least one murder and a very limited number of people who could have perpetrated it.

        • Injected insulin was the smoking gun that convinced a doctor, asked to research the evidence by the police, that there was foul play. Letby accepted the insulin must have been administered deliberately by a medical professional in the case of two (?) deaths. There was another nurse who worked both shifts but was ruled out as a suspect after an investigation.

        • There was supposedly convincing drug evidence in the Lucia De Berk case which was later discredited. In the Letby case the nurse was reported by the Consultants after 3 deaths in a fortnight in June 2015 none of which seem to have involved insulin. The insulin drug deaths came later. Letby had completed her 3 year graduate training in the Chester hospital in 2011 and then worked full time in the neonatal ward since 2012. This means she had worked in the institution for over 6 years before the spate of deaths in 2015-2016 occurred. It would be interesting to know know why she became the focus of the consultants suspicions so quickly in mid 2015 when no concerns had been raised earlier. I think this entire institution needs to be subject to a public enquiry to establish what was going on. This needs to cover not just the nursing staff but also the way that doctors and administrators interacted. The East Kent Trust enquiry revealed a whole litany of clinical and procedural failure in the hospitals involved which led to large numbers of preventable deaths of children. Was the same happening in this hospital ?

          The barrister Mark MacDonald has expressed some concerns about the prosecution case presented in the trial. In particular there is no common cause of death in all of the cases. The habit of daisy chaining evidence from incident to incident to bolster the proof of guilt is precisely what happened in the De Berk case and it is also present here.
          In addition some of the collaborating evidence presented at the trial such as Letby’s notes seem to relate to the period after she was actually removed from her neonatal post when she was put in a clerical job so the behaviour alleged as suspicious appears to relate to her response to being accused. I would want to know a lot more about Letby’s career and behaviour prior in the 3 years prior to 2015 as this must be pertinent to her behaviour later. I would also like to know a bit more about the way nurses and doctors interacted in this hospital and why the latter were so quick to point the finger at Letby when the initial deaths occurred

          • As a result of the De Braak miscarriage of justice, the daisy-chaining of evidence is no longer permissible in Dutch courts. The evidence put forward must relate to each specific case and cannot be inferred to apply to another.
            The fact that the deaths were only of twin and triplet siblings can also be attributed to the fact that multiple births are inherently more risky with babies often being underdeveloped and underweight. In the past it was accepted that weaker infants were likely to die within the neonatal period, now there seems to be a belief that (with the right care) every baby born should live. My grandmother gave birth to 4 sons, one birth being twins who both died for unexplained reasons within a week. She thought that because they lived a week they would survive but they didn’t. There was no neonatal care in her day but it had a huge impact on her anyway. In the end she had two sons (singleton births) who reached adulthood and both went on to become doctors themselves. That’s how great the impact was. The ‘God complex’ leaves doctors with no answers clutching at straws, IMO. Like Hugh, I still have concerns about this conviction.

          • I think the statistic in the UK are that neotal twins are x2 and neonatal triplets x3.5 to die as single neonatal cases. It is true the death rate came down on the ward after Letby was removed but by the end of 2016 the hospital has removed some of its ICU cots and raised the criteria from 27 weeks to 32 weeks for admission to her former ward so it is not a comparison of like with like. I dont suppose the hospital will tell anyone what happened to babies under the threshold who did not make the 32 week cut post Letby. One presumes some simply died elsewhere. I would be interested to know how long the various consulants and doctors involved had been working at this hospital and how clinical and admission procedures had changed over that time.

            On the legal front another issue with this case was the delay in bringing the case to court. There was a gap of two years from Letby becoming a suspect in 2016 to her arrest in 2018 and another gap of two years to her being charged in 2020. Her trial finally commenced over 6 years after she was identified as a potential killer. By contrast Beveley Allitt another British nurse convicted of murder in 1993 only spent 18 months between arrest and verdict. The sort of gaps seen in the Letby case are generally regarded as prejudicial to a fair trial. Article 6 of the ECHR specifically requires cases are brought within a reasonable time frame which does not seem to have been the case here. The suspicion is that in the interim the police and prosecution were fishing for circumstantial evidence to bolster their primary case. It is perhaps worth pointing out that some of the corroborating evidence used in the this English criminal trial would not have been inadmissable in a case brought under Scottish law.

          • The most awful thing is that many of those babies died in agony and some of the deaths were brutal. One bereaved mother wore a pendant with her childs hand/ footprints on them. The post mortem prints were taken by Letby. She cannot bring herself to wear it now.

            Another had her son buried in a funeral gown that was picked out by Letby.

            My understanding is that the judge giving her a whole life tariff for every single murder or attempted murder means even if she successfully appeals one or two of the individual verdicts, she’s still inside for ever, unless she’s able to overturn every conviction.

            She has 28 days to ask permission to launch an appeal. I doubt she will ever get out of prison.

      • The Kiszko case is probably the worst miscarriage of justice – and example of pure police bullying and intimidation – in recent British criminal history.

16. Here are Shipley’s 8th Harmonic and 18th Harmonic charts. Enlarge wheels if necessary.

    https://i.postimg.cc/SQVsLcjX/Shipman18-Hand8-H.jpg

17. What concerns me about this tragic case is the many parallels it has with another from 2003 in the Netherlands.
    That of Dutch paediatric nurse Lucia de Berk who was similarly found guilty and sentenced to life imprisonment for murdering her infant patients. After 6.5 years a reinvestigation of the evidence found major flaws in the scientific and medical forensics which eventually led to her being exonerated. It was described as ‘a modern witch hunt’.
    With the Dutch media not having the international reach of the BBC the case was not widely covered outside the Netherlands. But the many similarities between them do give pause for thought.
    “https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucia_de_Berk”
    Just because someone is found guilty by a jury doesn’t mean the conviction is sound. As the ‘Lucia B. case’ in the Netherlands showed, the perceived need to hold someone accountable for unexplained infant deaths can cloud judgement and lead to wrongful conviction. Whether that is the case here or not I cannot say. I simply wonder if she is not the victim of scapegoating to cover up for the real failures in the care system. Although the harmonics would seem to suggest otherwise.

18. Thank you Marjorie. Letby’s crimes are horrific, and the response at the time to whistleblowers’ concerns is so appalling I hope it will finally lead to some much-needed reforms in the NHS. There are so many other cases where protection of image and reputation has triumphed over concern for human welfare and safety. We can’t keep on listening to people saying ‘lessons will be learned’ etc. Clearly, so far, lessons are ignored.

    I noticed that Letby’s Capricorn Sun, Neptune, Uranus and Chiron at 13 Cancer aspect the NHS founding Sun 13 Cancer, square its Neptune 10 Libra. The Royal College of Nursing has Saturn 9 Cancer, square Jupiter 10 Aries, Sun 5 Aries. Beverly Allitt had Nodes 9 Aries/Libra, Sun 11 Libra. The Pluto in Capricorn transit to Letby’s natal chart was also a transit to the NHS Sun square Neptune. A Lunar Eclipse at 14 Libra, opposing Uranus and square Pluto in April 2015 may also be relevant. Possibly the tr Nodes, plus coming eclipses, now in Aries/Libra, will mark a change or real, genuine effort to restructure and clean things up?

    Might be worth noting that murderer William Palmer, 6 August 1824, was a doctor who poisoned his brother, mother in law, and four of his children when they were babies. He had Uranus 12 Capricorn, conjunct Neptune 7 Capricorn, and Nodes 9 Capricorn/Cancer.

19. I have only seen snippets of this on the news so I don’t know much about it. However I thought there would be a possibility of Fire planets in her chart, I was thinking possibly Sagittarius (risk taking) and Leo (attention seeking). So seeing Moon in Aries and Mars in Sagittarius is not hugely surprising – she may have enjoyed the thrill of the chase or the dare, the opportunistic risk taking, playing God and so on. Sagittarius or a strong Jupiter can pop up in the charts of murderers – perhaps more frequently than may be expected. She was so brazen in demanding an apology from a doctor, senior in status to her, who raised concerns about her. Her Sun/Saturn in Capricorn may have revelled in a feeling of importance in extracting the apology.

    She has a very tight Moon Saturn Sun Chiron t-square which could indicate someone who is a trapped child, someone who feels a very heavy burden of parental responsibility/ expectations/ emotions placed on them, with such a strong Capricorn / Cancer emphasis – and particularly as an only child. By committing these killings, she was effectively destroying the link between parent and child. Was it her own unconscious feeling that she was projecting? In contrast to the very strong Saturn aspects in her chart, her Sun Neptune Uranus rebellion seems to have manifested in a pretty perverse and delusional manner. Her Venus conjunct NN is an interesting riddle.

    • Hi Sarah,

      Interesting that you mention the burden of parental responsibility.

      This is from an article on her parents from Dailymail:

      ‘But texts Letby exchanged with colleagues hinted she sometimes felt smothered by her mother and father and guilty about moving away. She explained they missed her and hated her living alone.

      She appeared to speak or text them every day and described them as ‘suffocating at times’.

      In a message to another friend, she wrote: ‘My parents worry massively about everything & anything, hate that I live alone etc. ‘I feel bad because I know it’s really hard for them especially as I’m an only child, and they mean well, just a little suffocating at times and constantly feel guilty.’

      • Interesting about the smothering parents, shades of Dee Dee Blanchard there too. Sarah makes a good point about the fire sign planets, particularly Mars in Sagittarius’s risk taking energy and desire to be seen as heroic. She was apparently infatuated with a married doctor who at the trial gave evidence against her. She wept in the dock as he did so.

        • A married doctor is unavailable and therefore unable to commit. Would work well for a Mars in Sag, Venus in Aquarius. Plus I believe it was this married doctor who said “I would trust you with my own children” – so he was almost certainly older and something of a father figure for her.

          There is no obvious reason why she couldn’t have had an available longterm boyfriend. She is not an unattractive woman, she was seen as nice and kind, went out salsa dancing and no doubt to other places at night. It could be there were issues of sexuality which with all the saturn she couldn’t face bringing out into the open with her parents.

20. The appellation ‘Dr. Death’ is now applied to an enormous number of individuals, some such as the American wrestler of that name, not even having the slightest connection to the medical world.

    However, this classic moniker is entirely the invention of the 1970s UK tabloid press, being unknown before then, and, of course, coined in order to fit a snappy headline space.
    The *original* Dr. Death was one Sidney Noble, a bogus doctor operating exclusively in the UK’s fading seaside resorts of yesteryear, and preying upon elderly dowager widows whom he drugged – and then ransacked their lodgings.
    Noble, a rather pathetic and weedy looking individual was for some inexplicable reason ignominiously kicked to death by his brother prison inmates at HMP Full Sutton some years ago.

21. From all reports, you don’t get any sense Aries moon and Sag mars were being expressed in day-to-day life. Of course they may hidden away in more cerebral or emotional house.

    It seems like all that Capricorn overpowered the Aries moon – she couldn’t express her authentic feelings or self. The Sun-Neptune able to put on a happy face while the Sun-Saturn was dedicated. My gut feel is that while she was focused on her career thinking and climbing the ladder, she could ignore the difficult feelings. When she finally reached the job she’d always dreamed of doing in 2014-15ish, she found it didn’t satisfy her and the killing began.

    With the Sun/moon/saturn, Capricorn/Cancer so heavily involved in her chart, I’m intrigued by her parents. They attended the trial every day and its reported her father is 77, her mother 63. He was probably born with Saturn in Cancer, her mother with Saturn in Capricorn like her. There’s some kind of Saturnian dynamics going on there – not least with him being 44 when she was born and that much older than her mother.

    • Thank you, Marjorie for your interesting analysis.

      GD, I’m struck by how often Sun/Saturn shows up in the charts of criminals as well as non-criminals diagnosed with NPD and other disorders such as Munchausens. This makes sense when you think about how these individuals wear a facade in order to function in society and how Sun/Saturn so often goes hand in hand with a crippling low self-esteem as well as issues with the father figure. I see that Letby was an only child which I also associate with Sun/Saturn and/or Saturn in the 4th or 5th and that her parents doted on her. Her bedroom was more like that of a 12 year old rather than a 30 year old woman, with soft toys in her bed and Disney posters. A heavily adverse Chiron in Cancer indicates both parental issues aa well as wounds. Something in her didn’t wasnt adulthood, wanted to remain a doted-upon child. She was entirely ‘vanilla’ and outwardly conventional and as you rightly say, where is the buoyant energy of that Mars in Sagittarius or the quirkiness of Venus in Aquarius? None of those tensions or aspects of her personality lived out, therefore no psychological growth. She’s almost drowning in all that institutional Capricorn energy which squares that angry and unstable Aries Moon and Marjorie’s insights regarding her 18th harmonic are fascinating as are the comparisons with the charts of Shipman, Allitt and others.

      It’s also interesting that Gypsy Rose Blanchard who was the victim of a mother with Munchausens Syndrome by proxy, also has Sun conjunct Chiron, both opposition Saturn across the 4th/10th houses as well as Uranus/Neptune/North Node conjunct in Capricorn and Saturn in the 4th. Another only child who was not allowed to grow up. Her story is harrowing as she and her boyfriend went on to murder her own mother. She is now serving a life sentence, but was undoubtedly the victim of childhood abuse. A tragic case.

      • Cotrection: Gypsy Rose is actually serving a 10 year sentence, not life.

      • Another thought on the astrology: A friend of Letby told that Letby had had a traumatic birth and that was why she wanted to work caring for premature babies. It’s possible therefore that Letby has Pluto rising in the 12th or on the ascendant which would give her a Scorpio ascendant. Just speculating but I have seen that marker for traumatic birth so frequently and have it myself in Virgo. (I was blue and wasn’t breathing when I was born due to umbilical cord around my neck).

        • Interesting – my daughter is Scorpio ascendant and she had a difficult birth – she had to be be rushed off from the delivery room as not breathing. All fine ever since. I doubt whether she even knows it, or if she does whether it matters.

          So it’s weird to me that Letby is carrying this piece of info around as a reason behind wanting to go into neonatal and telling it to people. I’d suspect her mother (and/or father) just continuously mentioned it and told her how lucky they were to have her. Working in neonatal could be her way of trying to fix/heal their pain by stopping the same thing happen to others.

      • VF – certainly agree with your comments on her lack of emotional development e.g. bedroom. It was pointed out she only cried during the court case regarding matters that affected her – archetypally that’s very Aries moon – all about me. It’s an immature moon as it is and hers is afflicted in almost every direction even allowing for unknown time of birth.

        Obviously there are Capricorn Sun, Saturn, Neptune plus possibly Uranus squaring it. As societal planets, Saturn wants to do the socially acceptable thing, Uranus wants to do what it thinks is best for society, neptune feels the pain of society. If Jupiter in Cancer is in orb then that’s adding difficulties. There’s no personal development going on there.

        The Mars in Sag in trine could make her argumentative and sure of itself. But that side of her was rarely seen. I would guess when she was very young that moon/mars combination were a handful, said or did a few things which her parents disapproved of and got stamped out.

        The most damning aspect though, I think, is that Scorpio Pluto is inconjunct/quincunx the moon. Marjorie has talked a lot about how these aspects leave the native unable to reconcile the two ends. Pluto in Scorpio wants to explore some deep, dark emotions. Perhaps it wanted to provoke intense feelings by putting these babies in danger – maybe the Aries moon wanted to win and conquer.

        I really feel like simply looking at her birth chart provides a ton of answers as to why she acted how she did while the media dig around for weak descriptions and labels. They all say “only she can explain why she did it” but I doubt she really knows why she did it. It’s buried somewhere deep in her subconscious beyond her present level of self-awareness.

        • I do enjoy reading your astrological analyses GD and learn a lot from you. I’m quite interested in Moon quincunx Pluto as it’s the only aspect to her Moon that my mother has. Been trying to get to the bottom of that for a long time, since with her Sag Moon my mother tends to be somewhat idealistic about it. She was also an only child with Saturn in Capricorn 4th/5th house cusp. Her Pluto is in Cancer. I watched a fascinating video on this aspect by the US astrologer, Jewel and she spoke about how it can occur in charts of individuals who had to cope with death in one way or another as children, or that it can indicate a mother who gave birth to a dead child, or the death of a sibling. In fact my grandmother had repeated miscarriages and lost a baby son who only lived a few short months as he had spina bifida. She remembers going to the children’s ward as a 6 year old and touching his little hand and how perfect he looked.

          Anyway, I add all this because it may shed some more light on Letby’s own Moon/Pluto quincunx in Aries/Scorpio. The connection of the aspect with infants dying young seems to be a theme.

          • Thanks for your kind feedback VF – I occasionally wonder if I’m just mansplaining obvious stuff rather than adding insight.

            Your mother’s moon-pluto quincunx would be difficult. My parents were Pluto in Cancer, the old couple I live next to are. They all seem obsessive about their homes and gardens; as well as an almost narcissistic living through the lives of their families. Not hard to see how Sag which loves emotional freedom and to go exploring without possessions to weigh them down would struggle. I believe the one connection between Cancer and Sag is they both like to be around other people and avoid loneliness.

            In the case of Letby’s Aries/Scorpio mismatch – you have two signs connected by their desire to win and dominate. Each will fight to the death rather than surrender. Aries punches you in the face; Scorpio cuts your knees from under or stabs you in the back.

          • VF – DrG’s video published on Sunday seems to back up my comments – he suggests she had a need to experience intense emotions that you see expressed during the grieving process.

          • Thanks GD, yes indeed regarding the intense emotions. I see that Dr. G also spoke about Facticious Disorder or Munchausens and mentions the Allitt case.

          • ‘I watched a fascinating video on this aspect by the US astrologer, Jewel and she spoke about how it can occur in charts of individuals who had to cope with death in one way or another as children, or that it can indicate a mother who gave birth to a dead child, or the death of a sibling’

            OMG, I have Moon quincunx Pluto and lost my second son to cot death. Took me a million years to learn to just cope with the sadness of that. So our traumas/joys etc are written in our charts then and it’s just a matter of what transit triggers what experience?

          • I’m so very sorry for your loss, Jennifer.

          • Jennifer, So sorry to hear about your loss. Just heart-rending.
            I don’t normally like writing about death since it can send the more neurotic into panics looking at their chart and envisaging disasters.
            But it spurred me into looking at one family where there has been a fair amount of young death – and there was one Sag Moon quincunx an 8th house Saturn. A Moon quincunx Mars in another. A Moon quincunx Pluto in a third. So worth looking out for. Though what is notable is that others who were closely related did not have quincunxes. Maybe because they were affected in a different way.

22. Hi Marjorie,
    Another nurse you might be interested in who was also killing her patients was Elizabeth Wettlaufer from southern Ontario….
    https://www.cbc.ca/news2/interactives/sh/TBk79oWhpi/elizabeth-wettlaufer-nurse-senior-deaths/