USA Civil War – dredging up old fears

Is the US heading for civil war?  Amidst a generally panicky mood about everything from an impending World War 111 to a possible raging pandemic, the unstable and divisive political situation in the USA, exacerbated by the January 6 insurrection, is producing real fears of an internal rupture.

 The classic civil war astro-signature is transiting Pluto conjunct the Sun which oversaw the tearing apart of the USSR and the Syria civil war.

 The previous US civil war starting 12 April 1861 did not impact the USA 1776 chart’s Sun in any noticeable way.  Though it did conjunct the Taurus Sun on the USA First President chart, 30 April 1789.

  What showed up on the 1776 chart was a Uranus Return, tr Pluto square the Leo North Node and Neptune on the cusp of moving into Aries.

  There are certain similarities to the previous Civil War influences around the 2028 election with another Uranus Return (every 84 years) and tr Pluto in Aquarius opposition the Leo North Node. The USA’s North Node is sensitive – 9/11 happened during the exact tr Neptune opposition the North Node.

  So the next election might be the more fraught one – though I hesitate to feed into the American obsession with elections which generates a constant angst and anxiety about the next midterms and the next Presidential before the ink is dry on this one.

  But the same influences rarely produce the same outer events so nothing is certain.

See previous post: Civil Wars, messy splits – no clear signs ahead 6th May 2022 and other civil war posts in search.

20 thoughts on “USA Civil War – dredging up old fears

  1. I’m wondering about the uneasy, fearful, or fantasy-prone elements of Neptune in the astro for America.
    It’s now the Neptune return (with Mars and Scheat) for the Civil War, which has that trio of Neptune, Mercury, and ascendant in Pisces. Dreams and sacrifice, religion, deception, victims and saviours? For many, it is a time of the ‘hidden enemies’ of the Pisces 12th house, and perhaps a time of self-undoing as well?

    Looking at these charts, I noticed the Mercury opposing Neptune, square Jupiter, in the First President chart. Mars is square Neptune for 1776, with Neptune sextile the Cancer Mercury and trine Pluto in Capricorn. America’s ‘mythic’ story begins with countless journeys by sea, the Pilgrims coming by ship and bringing their religious beliefs and ideals with them – some Neptunian themes there.

    The USA had a Neptune Return in 1938, and has relatively recently had a Neptune opposition. Perhaps this is a time when Neptune’s dreams and stories are severely challenged or unpicked? The turbulence in the American “dream factory” film industry springs to mind. That industry was gathering great power and influence by the late 1930’s.

    Also worth thinking about the history of both the “American Dream” and “America First” – both older phrases than I first thought. This is from the Smithsonian magazine, October 2018:

    “When I began this research, I didn’t think of them as related. They both started to gain traction in the American political and cultural conversation discernibly around 1915. They then came into direct conflict in the late 1930s and early 1940s in the fight over entering World War II. In that debate, both phrases were prominent enough that they could become shorthand, where basically the “American Dream” was shorthand for liberal democracy and for those values of equality, justice, democracy, and “America First” was shorthand for appeasement, for complicity, and for being either an outright fascist or a Hitler sympathizer.

    The echoes between 100 years ago and now are in many ways as powerful, if not more powerful, than the echoes between now and the post-war situation.” – Sarah Churchwell, author “Behold, America”

    • Thanks Jane. I’ve been traveling across the United States on the USA rail pass. I just spent a lot of time in Texas. You’ve never met such quirky interesting friendly people in your life. I think a lot of stuff is manufactured by the media about people being divided and going into a civil war against each other here in the US.. Most people here don’t look at the news. Perhaps you’re right about what you’re saying, but I think people aren’t as divided and wierded out as the media likes to present it to be. It seems like that occurs mostly with people that sit and watch the news all day, whatever they’re bias is. The young man from Britain did refer to anybody that isn’t Whites as complete scum, so there is that! He definitely gives off white supremacist vibes. He told me he visited Russia and that it’s nothing like the media presents it and that Putin has everything under control there! He’s visiting the East Coast and headed back to Britain today. But other than that I’m meeting mostly nice kind, funny friendly people, as I’m riding the rails from coast to coast. The most notable person I met in Texas was an 83-year-old rodeo clown that’s dated the loves of Pancho Villa back in the day, when Juarez, Mexico, (right across the border from El Paso Texas) was a safe place to socialize and enjoy good times.That’s my analysis on the ground in the USA from coast to coast. All the best

      • I forgot to mention that the rodeo clown regaled us with stories about his love life, and the one that really brought us over was when he dated this beautiful woman and she was lovely and then she finally let him know that her husband was the commander at Fort Bliss texas! He made a hasty retreat from that relationship! Thank you for listening

        • Thanks Demtra, and what an amazing journey you’re experiencing! I think I may not have expressed myself clearly enough – I was just exploring the role of foggy Neptune in this really, and don’t think civil war is necessarily looming. But there are other types of civil discord and uneasiness, or underlying feelings that things aren’t quite how they used to be that Neptune in Pisces could be describing. History resonates, and doesn’t repeat in quite the same way. Neptune, astrologically, has great glamour – both as we understand that, and in the old meaning of a bewitchment or casting a spell. The USA has played a huge role in our world’s recent-ish history, and Hollywood certainly cast a bewitching spell over people all over the world.

          Since Neptune was right there in Pisces for the Civil War, and has returned now, it may stir up thoughts and stories about those days. These uncertain feelings seem to apply to many societies and nations at the moment – they’re always there, through history, but there are peaks and troughs. I tend to see Neptune in its home sign, Pisces, as especially potent.

          I hope you’ve made a journal or photo record of your journey, it sounds so interesting.

  2. If you look at the Sibly chart for the USA (5:10 PM LMT, Philadelphia), it’s not showing a Civil War, it’s showing a problem with the President.

    It has Saturn at 14 Libra 48 in the 10th house – that’s the President. Opposing it in the fourth house is Chiron at 20 Aries 8 (is this why Americans are suspicious of their govt?)

    The recent eclipse went over it. The malefic South Node (Ketu), is still conjunct that natal Saturn.

    In May, transiting Mars will oppose that Saturn and Ketu.

    Majorie said in her other post that Mars-Saturn aspects need not mean assasination, it could mean ordinary death, Biden is a very old chap.

    Anyway, I think the unease Americans are feeling is to do with the eclipse triggering that Saturn.

    • Candy…we’ve been feeling unease for at least eight years now.

      My theory of the general world-wise unease is that humans are part of an ecosystem that is changing quickly and drastically. Humans are accustomed to controlling everything (including playing with control of the ecosystem). But as humans are just another animal on this planet, human ingenuity has reached a point of hubris that is whacking the planet out of balance. Every animal responds to threats–humans are just another animal. The fear infects everyone–“leaders” to the “common ‘man'”.

      But that’s just my theory.

      Many of us were not happy with the way the 2008 bank crisis was handled either–so what is going on is a culmination of things, I think

    • @Troy This is no different than Hitler’s “Lebensborn program” which Nazi authorities created to ensure the purity of the Aryan race and increase Germany’s population. Pregnant German women deemed “racially valuable” were encouraged to give birth to their children at Lebensborn homes. During World War II, the program became complicit in the kidnapping of foreign children with physical features considered “Aryan” by the Nazis.MTo those who are suggesting this could not happen in the US is not paying attention and I say this as someone who was raised in the Netherlands whose parents went through WW II

    • It dawned on my yesterday, that when I started teaching (in Los Angeles) the literature we used to talk about the immigrant experience–from the Pilgrams to the various waves of people from all over the world included stories of those people. To me, it was a source of pride that this country was welcoming (this isn’t true, but it has been the myth and my family were immigrants around the early 1900s, even my kids dad’s family were “immigrants” in that at least one was an indentured servant from England and many others were from Ireland and Scotland.)

      To me, it was a source of pride. I taught new immigrant children English and I loved being part of the “welcoming committee.”

      This ignores, of course, the displacement and genocide of the native people.

  3. One possible connection between the U.S. Civil War era and now involves the Supreme Court. Then as now, a reactionary court made a terrible, divisive decision that was wildly unpopular and that caused intense social and political unrest and division.

    In 1857, the Taney court’s infamous Dred Scott decision denied legal personhood to African American people. It divided the country and basically lit the fuse for the Civil War, which exploded four years later.

    In 2022, the Roberts court issued the Dobbs decision, which overturned the constitutional right to abortion and compromised reproductive healthcare for half the country, creating medical and social catastrophes while increasingly eroding the legal personhood of women of childbearing age in red states (mostly the former slave states, perhaps not coincidentally). It has divided the country and has been the deciding factor in elections since it was handed down.

    Maybe looking at the charts for Dred Scott and Dobbs, and comparing them with the corresponding U.S. charts, might offer insight into the likelihood of another civil war? (Sadly, I don’t have the skill to do the comparison.)

    • Another echo of Civil War era:

      Many of the states that have enacted laws restricting abortions are passing laws very much like the Fugitive Slave Act. Some states are passing laws that will penalize anyone leaving their states for abortion care or from assisting anyone who needs such care with transportation to other states.

    • In 1857, the Taney court’s infamous Dred Scott decision denied legal personhood to African American people. It divided the country and basically lit the fuse for the Civil War, which exploded four years later.
      —great insight on the constitutional law missteps —that make a lot sense

  4. Thanks Marjorie for revisiting this again. I remember your previous post in may 2022 on this. We are 2years further along and the devision is even worse the and possibility of some sort of separation in the event of a Trump like Candidate, a separation seems even more within the realm of possibility. My view is the possibility that blue states will form some sort of coalition similar to the regional Covid 2020 coalition when New York, New Jersey and four other Northeastern states formed a working group to coordinate plans to reopen parts of the economy which was led by NY Gov. Andrew Cuomo. At the time PA Gov. Tom Wolf said “I think this regional compact is premised on working together to reopen the economy post Covid” As states rights are emphasized by the constitution , I can see some sort of form of this regional compact separating blue states from red states as a real possibility especially as the blue state electorate becomes more and more outraged about minority rule and the financial support of many of these red states. It simply becomes unsustainable politically. The Project 2025 frame work by the Heritage foundation would be rejected by blue states leaving a fractured country where state governments fill the gaps in serving their citizens and the federal level will dwindle to cooperation in Intl and Military affairs. Maybe a model similar to a combination of the workings of the EU and NATO combined. At’s all quite dreadful!

    • I dont think Blue States would comply with Project 2025. What happens when they turn off the money spigot. Great analysis Anita.

    • @Anita, during Covid California, Oregon and Washington State also formed a cooperative coalition. It’s possible now Arizona, Nevada and New Mexico might join in for a western/southwestern block, since there’s already some cooperation on key issues, such as water.

      • I was aware of those cooperations as well but later since I am in FL, with a daughter in NYC, I was focused on the NE at the time. Again the western/southwestern block of states you mention are similar economic strongholds together compared to the rest in between i.e most of the South and Midwest and TX of course is a lost cause politically. Is seems the Covid experience appears to have shaped or prepared parts of the county , in some aspects, for what is yet to come, as Pluto does it’s work. Time will tell.

  5. Longer term, the likeliest period for a US civil war or Revolution 2.0 will be the Uranus-Pluto opposition of 2047-48 on the US Moon, and the years leading up to it. That will be similar to the configuration surrounding the French Revolution of 1789.

  6. Going off on a bit of a tangent – Abraham Lincoln’s eldest son, Robert Todd Lincoln (born 1st August 1843) had the misfortune to be present at the assasination of THREE American presidents.

    He rushed to his father’s side when Lincoln was shot in 1865 (Lincoln was moved from the theatre to a house across the street, Robert arrived at 11 p.m. and his father died the next morning). Then he was President James Garfield’s Secretary of War, and was present (an eye-witness) when Garfield was shot at a train station in Washington in 1881. Then in 1901, he was just outside the Pan-American Exhibition in Buffalo, New York when President William McKinley was shot.

    As if the above wasn’t enough, the year before Abraham Lincoln was killed, Robert Todd Lincoln was on a crowded train station, and in the crush fell off the platform into the path of an incoming train. Someone grabbed him by the collar and yanked him out of harm’s way – and that someone was Edwin Booth, the brother of John Wilkes Booth (the man who killed Abraham Lincoln).

    Anyway, I looked at Robert Todd Lincoln’s horoscope, but I couldn’t see anything unusual – am hoping people on here can spot something.

    (Whereas if you look at Robert Kennedy Jr’s horoscope, there is a wide Mars-Saturn conjunction; Saturn at 8 Scorpio 32, Mars at 16 Scorpio 47. Which may be indicating the assasinations of his father and uncle. Prince William also has a wide Mars-Saturn conjunction; Mars at 9 Libra 12, Saturn at 15 Libra 30 – I know Diana wasn’t assasinated, but some people “perceive” she was).

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