UK US politics – mad hatters out front

  Bitter unhealable divisions, conspiracy theories, loss of faith in leaders and the emergence of down-the-rabbit-holers issuing messianic calls to their gullible followers make for a a feverish and scary atmosphere.

  In the USA an increasingly unhinged Trump soars ever onwards. In the UK the latest byelection in Rochdale which should have been a shoe-in for Keir Starmer has ended up a toxic mess with the Labour candidate ousted because of anti-Semitic remarks, creating a vacuum for George Galloway who has made Gaza his rallying cry. The House of Commons this week collapsed into shambles with fears that MPs are at risk of their lives if their vote upsets fanatics.

 UK’s failed PM Liz Truss is in the US murmuring about the dark, deep state while cosying up to MAGA election deniers. And Richard Tice of the UK Reform party, climbing into double digits in the polls, proclaims at the party conference: “The sun shines on the righteous. And we are the righteous. We are the reformers.” Hallelujah.

  Matthew Syed in The Times remarks today: “Psychologists tell us that conspiracies tend to emerge when people cannot face up to empirical reality.” “Blaming shadowy forces isn’t just convenient for these political chancers; it is a comforting distraction for the rest of us, too — the bread and circuses of the social media age.”

  I’ve been trying to work out whether the mental disintegration and chaos is down specific USA and/or UK astrology or is a global phenomenon triggered by Pluto moving into Aquarius and the dying days of Neptune in Pisces and Uranus in Taurus before shifting on. Though Russia/Ukraine and the Middle East powder keg would suggest otherwise. 

 It sparked a thought about psychological transitions which are not a smooth process from yesterday to tomorrow. The old ego shell/mindset needs to be dismantled and thrown away before a new interface with sanity emerges. Pluto at work deconstructing and reconstructing. Without the old certainties there is fear, vulnerability, a risk of collapse into madness before new solid ground emerges in future.

 “The world has always gone through periods of madness so as to advance a bit on the road to reason.” Hermann Broch

  The USA is in meltdown about the possibility of the increasingly deranged and demented Trump being voted in by his deluded fan club. The UK in 2022 went through three prime ministers, four chancellors of the exchequer, three home secretaries, three health secretaries and five education secretaries. Plus a catalogue of abysmal failures by various public bodies. And Queen Elizabeth 11 died who had been a beacon of stability for so long.

   The old certainties are gone. Reasoned argument is drowned out by too much divisive noise megaphoned by social media.

  On the UK chart, the four Fixed planets forming a wide Grand Cross have been under assault from transiting Uranus for several years, culminating this spring to early 2025 in a square to the 11th house Saturn, ruling the legislature. It was always going to be a few years which shook the UK to its foundations.  Plus tr Uranus moving through the 8th house until 2027 which apart from financial effects was going to cause psychological disturbance/change at a deep level. Not to mention Solar Arc Uranus also moving through the UK 8th for the past five years and aiming to collide with the UK 8th house Mars on the same degree this July/August and exact in mid 2025. That may bring a financial shock of considerable proportions or a major accident, but at a deeper level will jolt the national psyche, possibly bringing up more anger and rancour before it moves on.

 And last but not least Pluto in Aquarius will trine the UK Uranus at one degree Libra for an upheaval (and enlightenment?) and make a confident opposition to the UK Jupiter at one degree Leo this year and next with a disruptive (and liberating) tr Uranus square the UK Pluto in 2025. And a Progressed Moon through a season of endings in the 12th until October 2025.  

  None of this solves any problems but it does make it obvious that the UK is undergoing a seismic change which was not going to happen without collateral damage.

  The USA lacking a settled start time is trickier to compare. Though the Pluto Return of the past two/three years would bring to the surface a fanatical intensity. The Solar Arc Saturn conjunct the USA Mars this July which will produce a collision-like setback is still to show its hand. Running on in 2025 ther SA Saturn will square the US Neptune – which will bring uncertainty and confusion. The Solar Arc Sun will also square the US Mars by 2026 and oppose the US Neptune in 2027 – so whatever that USA Mars square Neptune represents will be brought sharply into focus for several years from 2024 to 2027. And Neptune into Aries (along with Saturn) will start to square the US Venus and Jupiter through till late 2027 which is likely to be financially disappointing and enthusiasm/confidence-denting.

  All countries will react differently to the celestial transitions between 2023 and 2026 and it may be that it is both global and particular.

Previous Pluto into an Air sign Libra in 1971/72 oversaw the Munich massacre when Israeli athletes at the Olympics were murdered by the Arab terrorist group Black September. The Troubles started in Northern Ireland with Bloody Sunday with the seemingly intractable Roman Catholic v Protestant, Republican v Unionist schism.  The seeds of Watergate were sown and the UK joined the EEC.  

Air rules ideas, ideologies and communication. Pluto clearly stoked up intense and fanatical differences of viewpoint with, in certain cases, a violent outcome.

“You cannot carry out fundamental change without a certain amount of madness.” Thomas Sankara

“In a mad world, only the mad are sane.”  Akira Kurosawa

“The world of men is dreaming, it has gone mad in its sleep, and a snake is strangling it, but it can’t wake up.” D. H. Lawrence

“Genocide is not just a murderous madness; it is, more deeply, a politics that promises a utopia beyond politics – one people, one land, one truth, the end of difference. Since genocide is a form of political utopia, it remains an enduring temptation in any multiethnic and multicultural society in crisis.” Michael Ignatieff

[PS This is not what I started to write, really intending to focus on the Rochdale byelection but that is only a symptom of a larger malaise.]

58 thoughts on “UK US politics – mad hatters out front

  1. Wise words from William Hague in The Times pointing to similar times in history. “It is worth knowing that we’ve been here many times before. The Gordon Riots of 1780 were inspired by a small parliamentary concession to the rights of Roman Catholics at a time when fears of “popery” were extreme. Large areas of London were set ablaze and hundreds of people killed, with churches and great houses destroyed in a week of uncontrollable violence. Order was only restored after King George III personally took charge and troops fired on the crowds.”
    “A few decades later – the Peterloo massacre in 1819, a plot to kill the entire cabinet in 1820, and huge crowds threatening parliament in later years. The Duke of Wellington sometimes made his way to the Lords with stones hurled at him and protesters trying to pull him off his horse.”
    “Even in our own time, MPs and the public have endured the threat of murderous violence. Every leading Conservative in the 1980s knew someone killed or badly injured in the IRA Brighton bombing.
    “From our history we can draw hope: we have often overcome deeper polarisation in the past. Furthermore, we have regularly emerged from it to enjoy marked periods of social peace and national success. It is important not to become apocalyptic.”

    • William Hague is always good on history. Thanks for this, Marjorie, I’ll go and read it. The Brighton Bombing was the day before Margaret Thatcher’s birthday, 12 October 1984, around her Saturn Return – Saturn approaching UK Neptune. It was another transitional moment, like now, with Pluto just starting out in a sign – 1 Scorpio, and Neptune at the end of Sagittarius. I also thought of the Poll Tax Riots, 31 March 1990. Mars in Aquarius conjunct Nodes, square Pluto in Scorpio, and BML in Scorpio – close to UK’s somewhat financial Neptune.
      I’m looking forward to some “marked periods of social peace and national success”!

    • good morning Marjorie.. and all,

      Marjorie… please don’t stop with the straight up approach to the astrology of Now!…. Might not be hopeful in the way we want, however, I think it helps to see things as they are. Oddly, that opens up space and courage in me!

      And to you amazing folks who have brought in the historical astrology of so many challenging turning points from the past… wow! I know this to be true instinctively.. these “cycles of becoming”, however to see the exact astrology is fantastic. Thank-you!

      The challenge I bump up against is with clients and friends and friends and clients… in casual settings. They have a smattering of astrological knowledge and accept it as valuable. And, they are troubled, anxious, afraid .. and, even, “bleak”. I’m not a Pollyanna by any means, however, I am very mindful of what I choose to say. My first astrology teacher was FIERCE about the ethics to hold to when you know astrology. Fierce!! So at this time, when people are being assaulted with all that is wrong, being honest AND uplifting is an interesting line to walk now.

      People are searching for hope.. searching for an end to all this craziness.
      Maybe this last cycle, since post WW2, since Pluto conj Uranus in the 60’s… we’ve had SUCH a prosperous wave, that we are not used to hard times! When Covid first hit and people were complaining about wearing a mask, for example, my Mom (who lived right next to Arnhem in the war), was SO accepting of all the restrictions. It was just what Life was.

      This site is amazing… please keep being honest and direct…. and also uplifting!
      What a great thread this has been!

  2. The worst time to live through, (bar the terrible ‘Volcanic Winter’ of 536 AD during which 3 volcanic events blocked out the sun and caused the most severe climate change of the last 2000 years), was the 14th century. A century of famine, climate change, disease and pandemic. The life expectancy for the average European dropped from 35.2 to 17.8 years during this period. Climate change was disastrous as the Medieval Warm Period came to an end and the years 1310 to 1330 saw some of the worst weather of the Medieval period, with long periods of cold and non-stop rain.

    It’s thought that a volcanic event may have been the cause of the Great Famine of 1315. Crops failed, food prices soared, some people returned to foraging in order to survive. The social effects of the famine were an increase in crime and a deterioration in behaviour. Rape and murder became more commonplace. The population lost faith in its governments, no longer trusting those in authority due to their failure to deal with the crisis. Europe became altogether more tough and brutish. In England, the populace tended to blame divine retribution because of the misdeeds of the unpopular monarch, Edward II. So this was the bedrock upon which in 1346 the Black Death arrives in Europe punishing an already reduced and traumatised population. The coming of the year 1500 had populations gripped by Millinarianism and conspiracy theories were rife. The Antichrist was expected imminently and the time of tribulation which the Book of Revelation speaks of was in full swing, people believed.

    During this period of 1315-16 Pluto was in the first decan of Pisces in square to Uranus in Sagittarius. Neptune was hovering on the cusp of Sagittarius in the year 1315 and Saturn in Aquarius. So nothing that one would think of as that catastrophic, but Pluto in Pisces and Uranus and Neptune in Sagittarius along with Saturn in Aquarius seems to correlate to climate change.

    It’s worth mentioning that we see this combination again in 1816, the so-called ‘Year Without a Summer’ during which Mary Shelley wrote the first science fiction novel, ‘Frankenstein’. Pluto is in Pisces, Uranus and Neptune in Sagittarius and Saturn in Aquarius.

    It’s very true that each generation believes itself to be living in the end times. History can enlighten us on that score.

    • Thanks, that is fascinating. I’m never sure if the exact dating either historically or in astro software is absolutely accurate but 1316 had Pluto square Neptune in orb and moving to the exact square a decade later, which is often associated with natural disasters and the devastation and confusion around them.

      • But also debatable. Because what answers would you get from people who lived through various wars and warzones through the years? And what happened in the non-Europecentric world? It is an insightful post, but I believe nothing is that clear-cut. Apart from objective outside conditions and circumstances, there is also an interior feeling that also affects the way people think about an age or era.

        • We have plenty of sources for this era: diaries, letters, family records, statistics, speeches and autobiographies. And the Black Death didn’t just devastate Europe. It’s currently thought that it originated in Central Asia, spread throughout Eurasia and was spread through trade routes such as the Silk Road. The plague reached into the Middle East, Syria, and Egypt, so it is incorrect to say that during this period only Europe was affected.

          Meanwhile, China saw no less than three waves of epidemics – 1331-34, 1344-46 the so-called ‘great pestilence’ and in Hebei and Shandong, the population fell from 3.3 million in 1207 to 1.1 million in 1395. We have no clinical details of these epidemics and the symptoms described are not those of the bubonic plague.

          There was also an eclipse in 1315 on May 4. It was in Taurus, Saros 117 fwiw.

          • The events are not debatable. If it is the worst time in history is. It might seem that way, but there are so many variables, it is not easy to say. They way people feel, even if it is sunshine and a gentle breeze outside, is another important factor.

            I don’t believe this era is the worst. But that there is some peculiar heaviness to it, there is.

          • I guess it’s impossible to know, El Aznar how individuals felt during this time, but I think historians generally agree about the 14th century being the worst century for Europeans at least . Don’t forget that everyone would have known someone who died from the pandemic and that entire families and villages were wiped out. It must have been utterly terrifying, particularly when you consider that many saw the plague as a punishment from God. Look up ‘Eyam’ for instance and you will see an incredibly moving story about the self-sacrifice of the people of those times.

            Don’t forget that this century also saw the beginning of the so-called 100 years war or that Jews were blamed for the plague (there was a conspiracy theory that they had deliberately poisoned all the wells), that whole Jewish enclaves were burned to the ground by angry mobs in France and Germany. Or that such craziness as the ‘flagellant’ movement, where large groups of people whipped themselves in order to try and rid the world of Sin. The spread of conspiracism and millenarianism fed into this, because in times of upheaval, tumult and uncertainty conspiracist thinking thrives.

            I’m quite sure there may have been worse times before recorded history began. But in conclusion I’d have preferred to live in a slightly cosier, less eventful century than the 14th!

          • There is a heaviness to this period we’re living through, certainly and maybe there is a certain unity in that feeling at least. I’d imagine that having 24 hour constant news being piped into their homes would have made the ordeal of living in the 14th century even worse for people!

  3. I think the decay of formal structures of government etc (as represented by Pluto in Cap) is asking us to be more self respond-able. We need to stop looking to some parental figure in the form of church and government to organise our lives for us and start working together at community level to improve life for everyone (shift in consciousness). But that also requires that we accept differences.
    If the media sensationalism disturbs you don’t follow it. Look at what’s positive in your immediate surroundings and be part of that. What’s going on nationally and internationally – if it doesn’t directly impact you – just see it as the theatre that it is. We never get a balanced picture. Everything in the media is people screaming for attention. It’s important at this time to take a step back and try not to get swept up in the drama. As Marjorie says, know that this too will pass. The present transition is just growing pains, IMO, and the astrology seems to confirm that.

  4. There is a great deal of panic around – and I apologise for adding to it – but there has always been a tendency to believe that the NOW is the worst it has ever been.
    We have lived through worse and survived. This too will pass. I remember American friends saying they would emigrate if GW Bush got elected. He did (and they didn’t leave). He made a right mess but the world kept revolving and eventually Obama turned up.
    The problem at the moment is the gear change as three outer planets make the leap into a new sign. We will be standing on shifting sands as the tectonic plates move around – to mix metaphors – and it should settle to a degree by 2026/27 as we move into a brave new world. The unknown is always scary but it can get better.
    Sometimes situations have to deteriorate to such a point that they create a backlash which promotes change. Societal change tends to go on a pendulum swing. Government/politics in the UK and in a different way in the US may have got to that point. The backlash against the idiocies of the Trump lobby may mobilise the anti-Trumpers to vote where they might not have bothered.
    What remedy there is for the disillusioned-with-the-whole-lot-of-them in the UK I don’t know. But there has to be an effective backlash at some point against criminally incompetent (to be polite) public bodies who mess up. Against the muddled immigration policies that put an unsupportable pressure on taxpayers/housing etc. Against the notion as Matthew Syed said that the NHS can be a French health service on US levels of tax. The calibre of politicians is one problem, the bone-headedness and inordinate stubbornness of the electorate is another.

    • Thanks Marjorie. It’s comforting to be reminded that all troubles pass, and I really appreciate your long term view – but the issue of the climate and ecological emergency is about as fundamental and terminal as it gets, the science is alarming – we have not been here before with this particular issue.

      The polarisation and demonisation of positive environmental measures such as Net Zero and anti pollution legislation (e.g. farmers in Europe) is perhaps the Pluto (Aq) Uranus (Tau) meeting in action? Governments who are making planned changes are probably guilty of not ensuring those who have to enact them are supported through the change – but some people will never be satisfied, especially those such as the industrial farming sector who have been allowed to push the land beyond its environmental limits for years, and aren’t about to give up the public subsidy good-times without a fight. Populists and anti-Net Zero campaigners are taking advantage of their unrest to stir up protest and dissent. It’s a tactic that was used by the Nazis with farmers in the 1930s.

      I’d always understood that Pluto operates by bringing outworn tropes and ways of being to the surface and eliminating them – but the dirty tricks going on behind the scenes with populism are also extremely Scorpionic, riffing off power and ‘individual rights’ whilst enacting chaos and breakdown. Unfortunately the outer planets don’t always work for the common good….

      • Prairie/industrial farming has done damage to the countryside and wildlife in particular. But again it is one of these wake-up-to-reality scenarios. Net zero will push food prices up and people are not willing/able to pay.
        I am not sure there is an answer – both sides refuse to face the consequences of what they are pushing for. The idealists and their opposite are both dug into their trenches

        • For sure. It’s a situation where some clear, courageous, progressive and level headed leadership is needed. but with these transits…..?!

    • “The Senator was vulgar, almost illiterate, a public liar easily detected, and in his “ideas” almost idiotic, while his celebrated piety was that of a traveling salesman for church furniture, and his yet more celebrated humor the sly cynicism of a country store. Certainly there was nothing exhilarating in the actual words of his speeches, nor anything convincing in his philosophy. His political platforms were only wings of a windmill.”

      ― Sinclair Lewis, “It Can’t Happen Here”. This marvellous book was written in 1936.

      Fast forward almost ninety years later, this is a perfect summary of Donald Trump.

      I don’t think he will succeed with his second attempt to become POTUS again. His financial woes will eventually
      overwhelm him. He has already lost two major cases, there are still 89 charges left to run.

    • No need to apologize Marjorie as you are giving us your best interpretation. It’s just that there is no clear path in the near future. So we all worry. Looking forward to 2026 then!

    • “Against the muddled immigration policies that put an unsupportable pressure on taxpayers/housing etc.” Just to make UK and US readers feel better about having lousy political leaders, that’s our situation in Canada. Justin Trudeau’s minority Liberal government began allowing in huge numbers of immigrants, temporary foreign workers and international students (400,000) in the midst of the Covid economy of 2021 when the country was already in a housing and health care crisis and his own civil servants warned of the impact on housing. In 2023 alone, Trudeau brought in 900,000 people with most settling in southern Ontario around Toronto — prompting 61% of polled Canadians of all colours to want less immigration. Three out of four Canadians want Justin Trudeau to resign but he won’t. A Hindu friend of mine says he is earning very bad karma and a presumably awful next reincarnation (such as one of Canada’s 300,000 homeless people?). By February 22, the Opposition Conservatives have the support of 40% of voters over 23% for the Liberals and if an election were held, the Conservatives would win in a huge landslide. Normally, such a minority government would fall and an election could be held. But the third party New Democrats under leader Jagmeet Singh has been stubbornly propping up this government since 2022 and is resisting all pressure to pull the plug until 2025. This is NOT how Parliamentary democracy should work!

  5. Well, during the course of this century, the UK will transform radically in terms of population, the legacy population, that is the population tracing its roots in the UK to before 1945, shrinking to minority status. Of course, the effect of this transformation on Westminster politics will be enormous. In short, the old parties, the old settlement etc, simply will not be able to survive the transformation.
    Perhaps the astrology is picking this up.

    • US had a similar change already. We are a nation of immigrants like no other. Prior to 1965, when immigration law was vastly liberalized, almost all immigrants came from europe especially northern europe. Almost no one immigrated from Asia Africa or South America. Slavery not withstanding. There were some Asians in the post US civil war era (1865 til 1882). Since 1965 some 60 million people have legally immigrated to the USA. And they have had children since then. Millions more have come illegally primarily from Mexico and Central America. For comparison the entire UK population is about 68 million. Here in the US less than 20% of the population can trace their ancestors living here to 1865 when the US Civil War ended. NOT even to 1776 or earlier. The conservatives are uneasy about that as the newer arrivals obviously do not have that “Protestant ethic” automatically and likewise many are not Christians either. Many of the conservatives promote the US as “a Christian nation” theme which is no longer true if it ever was. At least a third of US population is Atheist Agnostic or non-Christian. Maybe even 50%. There is great unease by the traditionalist part of the US population about immigration and social change. That is reflected in Trump’s candidacy.

      • Thanks Carson, These stats are interesting, frightening in some ways. Will return to the subject of immigration another day and have saved your thoughts.

  6. I’m no astrologer but since about 2012 I’ve had the feeling that we’re moving through a big wave through time, one that takes time to build, and time to break. I think about WW2, all the death and destruction; and then 1945, Peace, when peoples settled down to rebuild. I think this time around there’s still a long way to go, a lot more death & destruction before our own ’45. And it’s crazier now, with social media a mighty stirring spoon, and climate change the great big elephant in the room.

  7. what a post, Marjorie…. sheesh!!

    For those of you skilled in the astrology of the history of UK and US, I have a question.

    These past years has been a “lock-step” governance catastrophe in both the UK and the US. Has this happened before in history? The US would basically be the child of the UK, so, as with families, are there identical or opposite themes playing out in both?

    I so appreciate the historical astrology shared by Jane and Hugh and others…. an in depth learning at times. Anyways… .it’s just been so weird to have these two countries have almost the same story at the same time… all these many years.

    My husband is from the US, often educates me on the underlying political machinations…. and votes from abroad. This morning he said, “It’s strange. The USA has 370 MILLION people and the best they could come up with for each party was 2 old white guys who are clearly on the decline!”. Of course, Biden has to be the choice, but still. It’s all Alice in Wonderland. Hubbie says that a lot, too!

    One of my friends last week said she is feeling “bleak”…. she is Canadian. And she is Jewish.
    All of us trying to align with compassion, joy, love…….
    I am sorry, Roderick… that you have to be where you are, in what you are in.
    I certainly hold you and all those in the US on this site, in my heart.
    Truly, truly.

    • We are worried here. Many have English Ancestry. Mine is 98% with the 2% that person from Jordan/Egypt. We came over in WW1. We came back in WW2. Many American heiresses married royalty. I have deep admirarion for Winston Churchill, and a picture of him in my apartment and many books on the WW2. Winston Churchill, his mother was American. Dismayed by out of control immigrants in UK. Cold war. Now several congressmen under the sway of a Russian Operation where a Russian spy was feeding disinformatiion on Hunter Biden. Smirnov arrested by FBI and indicted.

  8. One difference in the systems of the UK and the USA is, of course, that the Head of State is a President whereas in the UK and possibly Germany the Head of State is the King and in the latter an almost invisible President, the executives are the Prime Minister in the UK and the Chancellor in Germany. The President in the USA holds both offices.

  9. From the wacky state of Alabama…”According to Alabama’s Chief Justice Tom Parker, the people of his state have adopted the view that “human life cannot be wrongfully destroyed without incurring the wrath of a holy God, who views the destruction of His image as an affront to Himself.”

    Sounds sinister. Almost ISIS-like or Taliban-like. It’s left up to incurring the wrath of Khan or that wrath of an invisible, unknowing being that rules thru fear, death, and destruction.

    Are there no belief systems which offer acceptance, growth, and life?

    Certainly somewhat off-topic but the loss of a present reality has Americans craning their necks for any stability, either realistic or else fanatically religious in nature.

    • Any religion that has the word fundamental attached to it always brings visions of people being stoned to death for minor offences. And it doesn’t matter which religion, they are basically rooted in the 12th century and unable to embrace any compassion or humanity.

  10. Marjorie and knowledgeable astrologers, do you see an approximate time when the US and UK (I spent many years there and feel a strong connection) begin to emerge from this political/governmental madness?

    I confess I need a ray of hope — though California, where I live, remains pretty sane, fortunately.

      • @El, most of America is becoming unaffordable.

        Texas has extremely high property taxes to offset no state income tax and Florida is suffering from major increases in homeowners’ and vehicle insurance premiums.

        Add that to increases in apartment rents and sky high grocery prices and people are struggling.

        • It’s actually so sad, becase I’ve always wanted to live in the US. I kind of grew up, and yeah, I know, watching 90210 and Melrose Place and several other shows, which gave this allure to America that I’m not sure can fully be explained or put into right words right now. I know those shows were all kind of Neptune, but so much has changed and I weep and mourn a loss of ideal I had and for a kind of life I thought was possible. America in some ways seems to have retrograded or at best stagnated.

          I still love its culture of hard work, a certain kind of openness and frankness, its ability to make you open up and be yourself, and a certain kind of enthusiasm. And of course its many glorious schools and what it gave to science and humanities.

          Too little space here to out it coherently, but maybe you will intuitively know of what I speak.

          Nowadays coming to the US to work seems like a pipe dream, even with a profession that is kind of needed. To get citizenship seems possible in some other universe, and even finding a company able and willing to sponsor you for a visa.

      • @El Aznar, unfortunately true, but our state is tackling the affordable housing issue quite aggressively. I grew up and lived the bulk of my life in the Washington DC area, with a lengthy detour in England and France. There’s no way I could contemplate a return to the intolerance of parts of the East Coast or the lifestyle. Even though the cost of living here is extremely high, the trade-offs are worth it — though if I had to leave I’d probably head to Mexico or somewhere in Europe or elsewhere in Latin America.

        • @Roderick, Huntsville is among the saner parts of Alabama and, as I recall, a pleasant, livable city.

          @El Aznar, there are a lot of people leaving California for Arizona and Nevada for cheaper housing and cost of living and quite a few leaving for Texas and Florida ostensibly for economic reasons but often for political reasons; usually they’re right-wingers eager for Abbot and DeSantis-style intolerant politics. But on the other hand, many are returning to California or moving here from Texas and Florida because they want more progressive, pro-choice policies.

          I’ve had a number of friends leave California, mostly in retirement, for many different states and others have moved to Mexico, just across the border, less than 50 miles, for cheaper living. One couple has decided to settle in the Azores. Tough to see friends leave!

      • Most conservatives in US move state residencies to lower their income taxes —- then complain about other levies and fees they must pay. They feel it is a plot to control their lives.
        Most liberals move to states where they feel politically and culturally safer from conservatives —- but if the conservatives would control the national govt? The libs are terrified of this. We have transitioned from a tense political standoff in the last roughly 30-40 years to state of fear of each other. So this election cucle is going to be high anxiety

    • @ Nicole
      I think all of the mental madness is about transiting Pluto being in orb of opposing U.S. Mercury.

      I don’t know how much more I can take of this either.

      People are not only normalizing but supporting Trump’s his lunacy.

      BTW I live in Alabama and for the majority local and federal races there aren’t any Democrats running. *sigh*

      • @Roderick, if I recall correctly, you’re a refugee from Florida. Is Alabama better for you? I know there are some more enlightened areas in the state.

        Virginia was pretty bad — ultra-conservative and racist, even Klan country — when I was a kid, but gradually it moderated and became even progressive in urban areas.

        • Yes I moved to the Huntsville area from West Palm Beach to be closer to my mom who lives in Mississippi about 300 miles (5 hours away).

          Economically I am better off. Rent is cheaper and I got a nice raise this month.

          Huntsville is growing so a lot of people from other parts of Alabama and out of state are moving here.

          Politically, the DNC has given up on the state Democratic parties in the Deep South so it like living in no-Man’s Land.

          Maybe one day things will turn around. Wish us political refugees luck.

          • Wow, thank you, Nicole and Roderick! This is so interesting to read.

            Are there any big(ger) US migration patterns – are people from some states moving to certain other states and what states would those be?

  11. Liz Truss has Moon at 9 Pisces square Neptune at 9 Sag. Tr Saturn is now conjunct that Moon and square that Neptune. In addition her Sun is at 3 Leo and tr Pluto is opposing it – her ego has been taking a knock.

    It’s clear she hasn’t come to terms with what happened to her, especially the speed and brutality of her defenestration, the 49 day premiership, the lettuce outlasting her. So she’s desperately seeking out someone, anyone, who will tell her it’s not her fault.

    Her family need to stage an intervention.

    • To be fair people in her own Parliamentary party did plot her overthrow and she was left hung out to dry by the Bank of England. The fact she is crying conspiracy does not mean some people were not out to get her. Not that have anytime for her political or economic views.

      • It’s the Tory party! They’re unsentimental. They ditched Thatcher, Ian Duncan Smith, Boris.

        Perhaps someone with Moon in Pisces shouldn’t have joined such a ruthless party.

        I think Liz Truss was originally a LibDem and only switched because it was easier to get elected as a Tory. She was on Cameron’s A list, which contained many non-Tories, like Rory Stewart who had only voted Labour at the time of his selection.

        Carpetbaggers never prosper – because they don’t really fit, they don’t acquire a large amount of allies who will protect them.

        • Truss was never popular with Tory MPs and the Tory grandees always considered her an outsider (Lib Dem).
          She was only promoted by Boris to challenge Sunak. Sunak was Tory party’s own boy.
          Truss’s premiership never had a real chance to survive for long if not the 49 days.

        • Rory Stewart had voted Tory and Labour previously depending on the policies of the day…

          Marjorie why is that today that the political leaders of any party (and wannabe political leaders) of today in both the UK and the US so completely uninspiring at best or dangerous mediocrities at worst. Whatever happened to politicians whose raison d’etre was service and duty rather than the other? Thank you

          • Or maybe now we are more aware of what our leaders are up to because of 24/7 media reporting, alternative sources of news and information and of course the social media.

            This could also be a deterrent for many genuine people joining politics.
            Just my opinion.

          • Because people claim that they want change but they simultaneously fear change and so they chose people who are similarly confused.

          • Rory Stewart said on his podcast that at the time he was selected to be an MP, he’d only ever voted Labour. The first time he voted Tory was in the 2010 election, the one he was contesting as a Tory candidate – he was voting for HIMSELF in that constituency!

            And when he stopped being a Tory MP, he stopped voting Tory, it was always about him. Now he’s hinting he wants to be a Labour Lord, another bit of carpetbagging.

            (Apparently the people who selected him to be a Tory candidate never asked him how he voted, because why would you want to be a Tory MP if you didn’t vote Tory? That innocence and trust is dead now. I think people are now alert that if a party looks like it might come to power, all sorts of opportunists jump on the bandwagon).

          • @Charlotte, in the US a lot of it has to do with the obscene amounts of money required to run for office. Obama and Clinton, both from modest backgrounds, are the rarities now.

            Most candidates for higher US office, governor, congressman, senator or president, either come from substantial wealth or have access to networks, whether friends, business colleagues or billionaires and their political actions committees (PACs). Some — many –, including the once maverick Sen. Kyrsten Sinema, have effectively sold their souls to Big Business. Dean Phillips and Joe Manchin come from great wealth, Phillips from the family liquor business, Manchin from coal money. Nikki Haley has had (until today) financial backing from the hard-right billionaire Koch Network. John McCain got his wealth from his wife’s family ‘s beer distribution fortune.

            Many pols start out altruistic but the need to raise vast sums of money to run for higher office quickly adds a dose of reality and often compromised ethics and/or changed policy positions. I see that even in our local city mayor’s race.

          • I think Blair broke the mold of British politics. He was essentially ideologically androgynous so could have easily led either party. He has spawned lots of replicants who place career over political belief. Oddly this lack of a major policy divide may be one of the reasons that a personal level UK politics has got nastier. When there are no major policy issues to argue about the tendency has increasingly become to play the man rather than the ball. I think it is why many ordinary people are increasingly alienated from politics as it seems to ignore the real issues that impact their lives.

        • The Conservative Party do like to indulge in leadership sacrifice in an attempt to appease the angry gods of politics. It is perhaps something to do with their 1912 chart Neptune conjunct Mars in Cancer sextile Saturn conjunct Sun in Taurus. This has been triggered by Uranus in transit over the past couple of years which may explain why there has been so many leaders overthrown in such a short period. Uranus in Taurus has been hitting planets at fixed degrees of a lot of different UK charts adding to the febrile atmosphere.

        • Liz Truss started out as Far Left as indeed her parents still are. I do find it difficult to see how someone can switch across between such poles-apart ideologies. After her short and catastrophic reign I did toy with the notion that somehow she was still far left and it was all deliberate…..

  12. There is also that thesis I encountered from a Hamakerian and Jungian that the ruler is an embodiment part of us which we reject. Our shadow transformed into the one who leads us. I hope I’m remembering and transmitting right. That always made me think.

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