Is Trump a necessary evil to trigger the Pluto Return?

Could Trump get a second term? As the economy prospers, unemployment goes down and his approval ratings rise (slightly) it’s not beyond the bounds of possibility, however unthinkable for swathes of the population.

What strikes me astrologically is there is a long run of challenges to the USA 1776 chart’s Mercury in Cancer opposition Pluto in Capricorn which picked up in 2016 and doesn’t finish till 2024. Mercury opposition Pluto in itself exacerbates suspicion, paranoia, is associated with demagogues and those guilty of fraudulent misrepresentation, promotes over-intense debates with a drive for domination and little latitude for compromise, can teeter on the brink of nervous collapse through strain.

Tr Uranus was square the USA Mercury opposition Pluto before and after the 2016 election – and previous occurrences of that influence on its own coincided with McCarthy in full rampage, Nixon and Watergate, and in the 1990s the Whitewater investigation. So paranoia, intransigence, intolerance running rampant.

This time round following on is tr Pluto which starts to oppose the USA Mercury from late February 2020 on and off till late 2021 and then moves onto the Pluto Return running until 2024. So 2020/21 are likely to be years of intense and often hostile debate and disagreement, mental strain and dogmatic obstinacy.

Pluto Returns are tricky to interpret since they happen so rarely. But for England a Pluto Return oversaw the humiliation of Suez in 1956 and loss of empire; and previous occurrences also came with failure in one area followed later by successful development in a different direction; as well as the gradual shift towards more democratic government from the 13th century onwards. The deaths of Napoleon, Stalin and Franco were also clear Pluto Return markers of a break with one style of government in the old France, Russia and Spain charts.

See previous posts November 18 and 19 2018.

None of the above sound like a light, bright, all-systems-change, idealistic Democratic win in 2020.

Trump’s own chart:– if the birth time of 10.54 am is sound then he has a constructive tr Pluto trine his Midheaven over the 2020 election and a change-of-career-direction tr Uranus conjunct his Midheaven in late 2024. And he does have a relatively mild tr Pluto trine his successful Mars/Jupiter midpoint in November 2020. Though that’s nothing like as strong as the influences that coincided with his 2016 win.

On the downside and he does have a good many negative influences – over the election he’s also got a ratchety tr Pluto opposition his Mars/Uranus midpoint which can be health-related (at his age) or seriously bad-tempered, and it is followed by even more restrictive and enraging hard aspects to a Mars midpoint and his Saturn right through till after the Inauguration, when he’s definitely not feeling the love.

Then from March 2021 tr Neptune starts to square his Moon and Sun which will undermine his energy and his ego with confusing and worrying circumstances around the family; with an uncertain, neurotic Solar Arc Saturn conjunct his 2nd house Neptune late 2021 which will bring financial worries just as his Progressed Moon starts a two-year trek through his 2nd house, also bringing cash concerns. Late 2021 also has Solar Arc Neptune opposition his 10th house Uranus which is likely to make him more doolally than he is at the moment mentally and bring career missteps. 2023 looks like his all-time horror year with Solar Arc Pluto square his Saturn and Solar Arc Mars square his Pluto – depression, insuperable barriers to progress, hemmed in, scared.

Elections are a horror to predict and there could be various scenarios elicited from the above. He could win a second term but lose both houses? Is that possible? He could win and then run smack into an even worse series of banana skins than his first term ending in impeachment or collapse of some sort by 2023. He’s certainly not a happy soul immediately after the election and before the inauguration, never mind what comes later.

The USA 1776 chart is showing up panicky-failure from March 2021 onwards with tr Neptune square the Mars as well as all the Mercury and Pluto being assaulted by tr Pluto.

And the 2021 Inauguration chart looks unstable at the very least and violently disruptive at worst with Mars Uranus in the 12th square Saturn Jupiter in the 10th with a control-freaky Pluto conjunct midheaven square Moon as well – feelings will be running very high indeed.

The USA clearly has some deep soul searching to do with the Pluto return coming up and since change never comes without crisis and force majeure it may be that a tempestuous next administration is what will precipitate hitting rock bottom (so to speak) which will then lead into a new direction.

56 thoughts on “Is Trump a necessary evil to trigger the Pluto Return?

  1. Hello Marjorie,

    You might want to spend a few minutes pondering this essay in Sandra Weidner’s blog. She uses a system of astrology she invented, based on Sidereal astrology, she explains it in detail in her site.

    But Vedic or Western aside, you might be interested in what she tries to prove, which is that no democrat candidate could have won the 2016 election. Concretely, she argues that rather than electing a candidate, voters elect a cohort, in other words, they all elect the people involved in a campaign, which make sense, as they will form the next government.

    If correct, this might be a useful tool in your arsenal. As you will see, in the case of elections, Weidner tallies points, like William Lilly does with horary. The campaign-cohort with the most points wins. This may also explain the ‘through a glass darkly effect” of predicting the election this far in advance: If Weidner’s is right, prediction would be impossible until we know the team, or at least the most prominent people in each campaign. We only know who some players, and some possible players may be, and those charts may be contain information. What might be possible is to calculate who wind the Democrats primary: it would be a test of Weidner’s theory.

    Just a heads up: when she talks about harmonics, she may not mean the same chart you do.
    Her website explains how she arrives at her harmonic charts.

    Here’s the link

  2. Looks like Buttigeg is the dark horse getting more than his 15 min of fame. I don’t dislike him, but I think he would be more useful and appropriate in Congress with his level of experience and ability.
    As far as Trump is concerned, the thing to remember is this: he is a symptom, and not the cause, of the decline of the US. Although he is adding fuel the fire.
    Nearly 50% of the population adore him blindly. As well as the vast majority of Republican office holders.
    The destruction he has visited on this county will not go away after he does. And if you look at his chart, you will see that as president or not, he will continue to lead and provoke his followers for another 10-20 years, getting narcissistic reward from fanning the flames of hatred, chaos, and destruction, until he is literally to old to function. To repair his damage will take at least a decade, if it is even possible.

  3. One situation that I can think of – even if a Democrat is elected, is that our debt ceiling collapses. This eventually has to happen – the debate is coming up again… this September – which I am sure they will keep raising like they have been – however, if a Democrat is elected ( especially a woman /POC/ Gay etc) and this comes around again, I am sure the republicans in senate will refuse to comply and just let it all burn with the commander in chief blamed.

    USA’s biggest mistake, wasn’t just electing trump – he was never really elected. It is the people who refused and/or were too lazy, indifferent etc. to not electing an effective congress/senate ( yes, I know about gerrymandering). When the democrats lost both house and senate during Obama admin., I already knew it was over. This is when they declared war on us – the people.I was taught the congress/senate votes were the most important. I guess the rest of the county is learning the hard way. I am lucky to live in CA where we have a good local government. If this crises of D’s losing house and senate did not happen, we would be in much different position. Trump probably impeached by now, election security secured etc.

    Also, Trump has defaced the country, constitution and rule of Law so much, I almost feel the next president and those after ( if we have them) will be seen as powerless. Its obvious that even at our lowest levels of law such as policing is completely corrupt and dead – we are now seeing rule of law at the highest levels being defaced. Does Rule of Law even exist anymore? Perhaps the pluto return will tell us “no”.

    • You expressed the past, present, and future with complete clarity. I wish this thread wasn’t off the main page, because your post deserves to be seen.

  4. So much here to comment on. If you follow Tom Chicago (Tom Joseph) on Twitter he has many good threads that show Trump has some kind of dementia or similar. He has well documented the signs and symptoms Trump has shown. Ivanka was at G20 as his minder – she is performing a function similar to what Nancy Reagan did for Ronnie. (Let’s pretend the Emperor has clothes!). While many think Trump will refuse to leave the WH, the fact is he always caves in. The next issue is that many of the crimes he is accused of are charges coming from various states, which Queen Ivanka would not be able to give a pardon because they are not federal charges.
    Tulsi is not going to be president, as no one likes people that eat toenails. Pete is not going to get it either. He has harmed the black community and they don’t like him. Biden and Bernie are too old tho the Bernie Bros will try to damage election results by writing him in or something. I have hope that Trump will be removed from office by the 25th amendment or impeachment. But if not, we will have to wait til the election.

    • JW, please let us know when you get an inkling of who will be inaugurated! Your insights are rational, and I agree to nearly all of it, except Biden being too old. But age-concerns are eternal, ever since Methuselah was told, “You really need to hand the torch to someone in their 800’s.”

      If we keep up with what Marjorie sees in the charts, we can stay ahead of the chaos.

  5. This is definitely Star4Cast at its finest! I check everyday for new comments.

    Pertaining to the inaugural chart and various scenarios, Salon has an article with rumors that are sweeping D.C. among Republicans: Trump bows out of the race next summer and puts Ivanka in his place. Upon her inauguration, she immediately pardons him, and begins a new era of the Trump dynasty. OR, he picks her as his vice president. He resigns when it gets too hot for him after their inauguration and she pardons him immediately. Collaborating evidence: Mike Pence’s name is not on the paraphernalia sold at Trump campaign rallies this year. The author also said Trump is already looking into how to invalidate the 2020 election if he loses.

  6. Haven’t seen this much activity since the American Civil Was posting/debate.

    Here’s another breakfast tidbit, brought to you by…”your favorite president”…

    “Cargo ship owned by JPMorgan Chase seized by US with 20 tons of cocaine”

    So much for his standing claim that all the cocaine comes north across the Mexican border. Street value of approx $1.3B. Better plan to wall-off all seaports and airports, Donald, esp in Philly. Mighty tastey Philly cheese steaks there…

  7. Hi Marjorie,

    Apparently AG William Barr just unrecused himself from the Jeffrey Epstein case: “”
    What do you think, is Epstein really going to pay for his crimes?

  8. Much obliged Marjorie. Here are the main quotes from two articles and the links to both.

    “This surge towards change will primarily be lead by those born at a time of previous Saturn Pluto conjunctions ie 1982-1983 and 1946-1948, destined to be political activists and to do something serious about the corruption in governments in order to overturn outdated systems and rules and to bring in new ones.” New elders arise to show that all is not gloom and doom and there is another way of running society, elders being people who have gained wisdom through experience, and who take their duty to society seriously (not necessarily old). Such ‘wise elders‘ emerge to reorganise society, to make just laws and to introduce new systems and rules. These are people who are respected and looked up to, a new breed of governors, who genuinely care for the well-being of society as a whole and therefore organise society in the interests of all.”

    • I know that across all comments, everybody has been focussing on those born in 1981-82 in the articles linked to. But has anybody considered if there are any candidates born in 1946-48? That would make them about 71-73 years of age at the moment. Joe Biden and Sanders are too old for this age range. But a moderate white male heterosexual of this age range could attract some indepdendent and non-Trump Republican voters and could possibly swing the elections in the Democrats favour.

      • Had to laugh because genuinely the first politicians born in ’47 that sprang to the top of my mind were Hilary Clinton and Ann Widdecombe, and was then trying to picture the carnage

  9. I’m looking at the 2021 chart inauguration and I’m thinking:
    -whomever gets in will start some sort (or will be the catalyst) of violent revolution? Even civil war?

    (I’m a bit paranoid, so… maybe I’m reading too much into it.)

    • My gut feeling is that Trump may refuse simply to stand down, in case of a close election. And with a significant gun-toting part of the country with him, who knows how messy it can get?

      Ironically, if there is a civil war, this time, I am convinced that the 2nd amendment will finally get repealed.

      • As many mass-shootings, suicides & accidental gun fatalities as there already are in the US, you may be right that many more “obvious” deaths need to occur for people to see the disconnect between the Founding Fathers’ original intent and the 2nd Amendment’s appropriated modern function.
        May the universe help us all, even the blind followers. SMH

  10. Well my experience of north node Gemini is someone I’m related to. I was always amazed at just how profoundly incurious she was. She has a great personality, very clear outlook and strong opinions (Sagittarius south node), but she’s utterly impervious to other outlooks. She’s never asked me a single question about myself ever, while she talks in huge detail about her own life. I always found it puzzling, until I learned she was a Gemini north node.

  11. Tulsi Gabbard was born in 1981. She and Pete are the only declared candidates of either party born in the early 80’s that I could find. I think the early 80’s “mystery” candidate/winner is interesting but not happening. The inaugural chart, and U.S. chart of the 4 years following, is a storm of astrological thunderbolts. Neither she nor Pete seem like stormer-bringers.

    • I was going to make a joke on Gabbard but I didn’t bother. I think people should look at who seems relatively pleased over the election and inauguration and try to extrapolate possibly why. The crisis may be so jarring that it reduces the euphoria or jubilation expected from a Democrat victory and affects the country for years to come.
      By my early analysis, them Dems are slated to win the EC by a *minimum* 272 votes! Two things drive higher voter turnout; anger or inspiration. The Dems are pissed, and If a gay nominee is selected, then you’ll have both. Higher voter turnout always benefit Democrats throughout U.S history. 2020 is gonna shatter records which will overcome attempts at voter suppression. In regards to Russia or foreign interference, the Intel community and other buffers are on extremely high alert and defense.

      • “The Dems are pissed, and If a gay nominee is selected, then you’ll have both.”
        The Republicans would be (pissed) too and more likely to vote if the Democrat candidate is not a white male heterosexual or particularly left-leaning (eg. Bernie Sanders). Joe Biden seems to be the best candidate at this time. Not exciting, not radical, not a change, but right now, the Democrats just need somebody who can beat Trump.

        Conversely, then you will have Democrats who will not vote for the party’s candidate, because they were not the candidate that they had in mind (like the Bernie supporters who refused to vote for Hilary). The Democrats have become too ideological a party, rather than a party of government (which requires compromise and flexibility).

        Also, even if the Democrats win the Presidency, there is a reasonably good chance that the Senate remains in Republican hands. And the Supreme Court (and the lower judiciary) is Republican for a generation now, even more so if anything happens to RBG and that vacancy is filled by Trump.

      • Keep in mind the age range may be off by 1 or 2 years. And It may not only be referring to America. Jeremy Corbin and Elizabeth Warren falls within the older range.

    • Gabbard from my recollection did have a good deal going for her astrologically. Post January 13 2019. Though she sounds most unlikely given the oddity of her views.

  12. Interesting question, and probably the answer is “yes” he is part of a bigger story. Trump is a Gemini trickster, and with that Sun/Uranus surely a very disruptive trickster – a little bit “The Joker”, a little bit Elmer Gantry…. Plus Mercury square Neptune adds to his ability to slip and slide, and his fondness for crying “fake news”. Tricksters are often boastful in worldwide folklore, too. Their purpose is to subvert, and sometimes to teach. Eventually the chaos they foster leads to transformation, which will be Pluto’s job. Can’t see any of this being sunlit or pretty though…..

  13. Wow, nothing can help that inaugural chart, not a later swearing-in time, etc. All of the planets are above the horizon, so there will be an obvious collective reaction if a Trump “victory” is so janky that it’s worse than losing by 3 million votes and becoming president, like in 2016. All his life he’s been a participation trophy winner, and the presidency was just another one for him.

    Pisces intercepted in the 11th house shows his supporters are in a fantasy world, as is he as far as his dream of what he can achieve. He may lose again (as he lost in 2016), and refuse to acknowledge it and leave office, believing he is all powerful and supported by his party and the people.

    With his dream world and deluded supporters (pisces 11th) hemmed in by those squares, there could be serious consequences.

    I don’t even want to guess what this chart means for a Democrat winner. As for Troy’s 2020 winner born in the early 80’s, Ivanka Trump was born in 1981.

    • What are people’s thoughts about north node in Gemini? I’ve not had good encounters with people who have those so far. Happy to hear other perspectives.

      • Gemini North Nodes can be bull-in-a-china-shop types who career around at speed and insist on being free spirits. Not always good at listening to others or appreciating their opinions. Learning to communicate clearly and listen to feedback is a key part of their journey.

        • Thanks Marjorie, been reading up more on it. Apparently we need to embrace our gossipy side more, so what do you make of Trump’s criticism of May today?

          • He really is beyond thought. Just doesn’t know how to behave. Part of it may be diversion tactics, pointing attention away from ?? the Epstein saga or whatever. But it’s also that teeth-grittingly irritating narcissistic thing. He cannot stand not being fawned over. And heaven preserve anyone who disagrees with him – cast into outer darkness and heaped with contemptuous scorn. That self-esteem wound of his runs very deep and narcissistic rage is always very fierce.

          • No reply button for Marjorie’s post on Trump…so I’ll place it here. Trump gleans so much ugly popularity since he becomes the reflection of his base. A sad conclusion of our country.

          • Was reading more articles online this afternoon about racial profiling and another 1st amendment ruling against Trump. President Two Scoops feels that because he is president, he is allowed to do as he wishes. The WH is appealing the court ruling on Trump’s blocking of Tweet subscribers who disagree with him.

            “Trump’s Twitter blocking violates Constitution”

            Amerika has become the “all about me” country. If he can racially profile with immunity, then all-amerika can racially profile with immunity.

            #allabout me

        • In microcosm, I knew a North node in Gemini conjunct ascendant for 30 years – a close friendship which began in childhood. Eventually just had to gird myself and end it (not something I enjoyed doing, very painful) because of the constant drama, lies, mind games, half truths, and duplicity. Despite the agony it was transformative and the experience taught me much self-knowledge. In a way I am grateful to the person.

          • Yeah, duplicity is what I’ve encountered personally. I imagine I haven’t had the best of luck with north node in Gemini types. As with any north node sign, I imagine the well-integrated ones can demonstrate the highest of its vibrations (don’t know how else to express that).

          • Hmm the one I can think of whom I had most dealings with ended badly as well – constant running dramas, melodramas and crises (mainly self-created).

          • Node in Sagittarius when unresolved – tending to lack commitment, bending too much in the breeze of prevailing circumstances, need avoid getting bogged down in gossip or trivia. The search for higher knowledge and extensive travel or a wider understanding of the world brings fulfillment ultimately.

      • Sagittarius South Node, in my view, believes they know it all, and were positioned to make sweeping pronouncements from the mountaintop. Perhaps a priest-king figure in a past life. Brett Kavanaugh, interestingly, is also a Sadgie South Node—the *worst* possible place for an unevolved Sadgie SN (as I believe he is) is on a Supreme Court. Gemini North Node says, “be the heretic this time around!” Talk to others at the base of the mountain, get out of the rarefied air at high altitude. Pertinent to Mali’s observation above about the Sadgie SN relative who is incurious and continually talks about themselves… I see that as part of their evolutionary process. A Gemmi NN needs to focus on the detailed conditions of their life to arrive at an understanding about how UNfree they actually are (or have been in past lives). Sagittarius, in spite of its benefic nature, can also be a slave to tradition, such as in a religious milieu.

    • In regards to the Ivanka theory. That’s a definitive NO. For reasons that are too many and should be too obvious. There are other character aspects ascribed to the person in the reading that do not fit Ivanka. But separate from who I think it is, there is another person that fits the bill interestingly. Justin Amash. I’m waiting for a reading on him.

  14. Marjorie,

    Thank you for looking into this. It’s not the most pleasant prediction, but at least we can now brace ourselves for the possibility of the Orange Idiot getting reelected.

    I knew the Saturn-Pluto Conjunction and Pluto Return could indicate something like this. Plus, the Russians are helping Trump and his Republican menions…, I don’t expect a fair election.

    I do think it will be very difficult for the GOP to win back the House of Representatives though considering Democrats won it by such a landslide last year. Plus, Trump’s Russian “friends” will be too busy trying to rig the Senate and Presidential elections in his favor….. they’ll be too overwhelmed and occupied to rig the 500 plus Congressional seats.

    If Democrats can just keep the House next year… I’ll be grateful for that.

    I’m still voting though. I’m voting for Biden in the primaries…but I’ll vote for whoever gets the nomination (whether it’s Kamala Harris, Elizabeth Warren, Pete Buttigieg, or even if its Bernie Sanders).

    Chris Romeo
    Jacksonville, Florida

  15. Another reading elsewhere has a person born in the early 80s being the new POTUS in 2020, which ironically alignes with my assessment. They also indicate a major upheaval commencing in the first quarter of 2020.
    Kerry and de Blasio seem quite happy over the period, while Trump seems miserable(which wouldn’t be the case if he won given his narcissism). These factors should be indicative and bring some comfort I believe. It’s easier for Dems to win the White House than the Senate, and them losing the House is near impossible given the climate. I think the apparent gloom over the inauguration signifies some form of tragedy. Maybe due to Trump cult crazies revolting.

  16. Thank you Marjorie. An intense assessment, indeed. Even if he fell off the perch tomorrow, his base, it seems, would still carry on in dark, lashing-out manner. Insisting it is God’s Will that he was God’s messenger. It appears that such turmoil also is associated with religious fervor / fanatacism.

    I have an entire family of cousins, aunts, and uncles who fall in marching behind his words and so-called actions. A terrible loss of family.

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