Hillary Clinton is staying out of sight, no doubt writing or proof reading her book What Happened about her election debacle, due out in the fall; and according to reports considering becoming an ordained Methodist minister. Religion has evidently been a staple of her life from her childhood onwards.
If her birth time of 8 am is reasonably accurate, it gives her a marked 9th house of Mars Pluto Saturn, which would certainly be strong beliefs; and Sun Venus in the 12th which would be drawn to an active inner life.
Tomorrow’s Lunar Eclipse will oppose her Mars Pluto (Saturn) which will stir up a good deal of her thinking and outlook. She’s in a fairly Neptunian fog over the next two to three years; with tr Neptune hitting on two of her key midpoints; plus a chaotic, disappointing, maybe scandal-ridden tr Pluto square her Sun/Neptune in 2018/19. There’s a Solar Arc Saturn conjunct her Sun end of this year or into 2018, which looks discouraging and stuck; and her Progressed Moon is heading into her 12th on an 8am birth time very soon to stay there for two years. That is an inward looking time of clearing out the past and tying up loose ends of an old way of life. She looks emotionally downbeat as well with tr Saturn square her Moon and opposition her 8th house Uranus from this September for a few months.
Any defeat after a punishing campaign takes its toll and she’s very Scorpionic and Fixed so won’t let go hurts and resentments easily. The fact that Trump is turning out to be such a disaster, in some odd way, may make it worse. And she doesn’t look too sympatico with Bill either.
Thanks, Marjorie. Interesting re Hillary’s Jupiter. Years ago, an astrologer–noting my 10th house Jupiter–remarked, “But it’s retrograde.” Then he said, “Ah well, it’s still Jupiter.” Just wanted to confirm with the ultimate source: You.
J-Bird, I did indeed vote for Hillary Clinton. Didn’t feel there was another choice. And when I said “most of us,” I was referring only to people I personally know, none of whom were Clinton enthusiasts. I’m a New Yorker, and don’t forget, whole apartment buildings were struck from our voting rolls in Sanders-friendly neighborhoods, by DeBlasio and the Clinton machine. That certainly riled up a large number of registered Democrats in NYC. My friends and acquaintances are very outspoken, and I admire them for it; doubt very much if anyone was deterred by the “foul wind of my opinions.” (Great phrase, though.) Peace. Marjorie’s point about Hillary’s weak Jupiter is telling; perhaps that colored my perception of her candidacy.
Marjorie: Very much appreciate your astute and engaging analysis re Hillary Clinton. Reads like a good book you can’t put down. You mention that Hillary’s Jupiter is weak whereas Trump’s is strong. Can you elaborate a bit on what constitutes a weak Jupiter, as opposed to a strong one? My natal Jupiter is in the 10th, but it’s retrograde. Does that mean it’s weak? Would it be even more fortuitous career-wise if it were direct? I’ve a hunch that when it came right down to it Trump’s win was all about his robust Jupiter. Forget all other aspects/factors (including Putin), Jupiter put him in the WH. Sheer, dumb luck.
What I meant by weak is it isn’t well integrated into her chart, no aspects to other planets and only one to a midpoint. It usually means it’s undeveloped and doesn’t lend its sunny optimism or luck to other areas of her chart which is one reason why she’ll be less outgoing and rather remote.
I never worry much about retrograde planets since I’ve known hugely successful people with several retro planes.
Marjorie, is a planet still well integrated even if it throws off squares and oppositions to other planets? I’ve got a Jupiter bucket chart (almost sits on Pisces DSC) with the other 9 planets to the left (6 in 1st quadrant, 3 in 4th) BUT; It throws off 6 squares and oppositions to planets and ASC/MC. Jupiter is also retrograde and I just assumed that was down to bad luck/badly integrated? I do have trines from it towards my envious 10H Moon CONJ. Saturn, lol. My Jupiter handle obviously means something but from what I’ve read so far, I’m none the wiser! Apparently lucky but, no, not really. I couldn’t be a politician though even if my Jupiter was strong. Yukk!
Jo, It’s tricky to interpret without knowing the exact chart. But a few thoughts – if there are squares and oppositions to Jupiter then it is presumably in a T Square which helps since it gives the tension of the hard aspects an outlet with a dollop of Jupiterian luck thrown in. The trine to a 10th house Saturn will help to ground too much Jupiter, bringing more common sense and organisational ability. Jupiter is also in its own sign which is good. I really wouldn’t worry about the retrograde. Though it is worth looking to see when it goes direct (if it does) by progression – a good uplift.
The integration factor is about allowing the planet to interact with other planets in the chart, with difficulty or easily, but there’s still a way for the planets’ energy to pull together in some way. When a planet is unaspected it doesn’t quite fit with the rest of the personality and tends to be switch on, switch off, overdone or under-done.
Thanks, Marjorie 🙂 Yes, Jupiter is in a T-square; opposite Venus in Virgo (12H) both squaring onto Neptune in Sagittarius (3H). I surmised it was probably an arty aspect. My 1H Pluto/Mercury(2H) plus Uranus(3H) all square the Moon/Saturn but, Mercury/Pluto (and Jupiter) all trine the MC which I would assume would be good for the career. And yet, If I’m brutally honest, I’d say my life has been one of abject failure by not doing what I really wanted. I’m hoping 10H Saturn lives up to being the late bloomer configuration; I’m only just clarifying what I want to do. Actually, I’ve always known but, now feel the celestial boot up the backside as I move into my 40’s!
Sorry, Uranus is in 2H.
Jo, The celestial boot is helpful and midway through life isn’t too late. Part of the problem is a focal point Mutable Neptune which wanders all over the place, doesn’t want to commit and basically doesn’t like reality much, so tends to be escapist and easily distracted. I’m assuming you’ve also got a Water Grand Trine, if Jupiter in Pisces trines your MC as does Pluto Mercury. That can also lock you into a dream bubble, since reality feels too harsh – it is creative and healing – but you need to get out and accept life as it is. I’d get a grip of your Saturn and make it work for you. Though watch your Moon Saturn since it tends to put you on a guilt trip about doing what mother/others want rather than what you need to do for yourself. Be ruthless and selfish and be YOU.
Thanks again for your reply, Marjorie. Oddly, I don’t have a Water Grand Trine. There is sort of one there though. That 6H Pisces Jupiter trines the 10H Saturn in Cancer which trines my 2H Libra Uranus BUT, that makes a sesquiquadrate back to the Jupiter. Whatever that is.
But, you’re bang on with the traits. Still feel I’m good at healing others but not myself. Have all those mother issues tied up with Moon/Saturn – I’m trying to see myself through my own eyes and not my mother’s, which is hard but, I’m getting there (too slowly imo). Also, wish I could flip my chart 180 degrees and have my Jupiter on the 1st/ASC and all my planets to the right of the chart; that would make me more people orientated and outgoing, I think. As it stands, it’s so much easier being alone and doing my own thing but, completely unhelpful if I need to put myself out there and evolve. Do you think we pick these aspects before we come into this life or just get stuck by some instinct to survive our environments? It’s all very peculiar!
My apologies; I didn’t realize I was posting on the “Hillary Clinton Fan Page”. This same type of rabid defending is what helped us get into and stay in such a confused state of affairs. I am not eloquent or learned enough to get into another political argument and this is, after all, Marjorie’s political astrology blog. But if anyone cares to open their minds to another perspective I posted a very eloquent article from journalist Glenn Greenwald from, “The Intercept” called “Democrats, Trump and the Ongoing Dangerous Refusal to Learn the Lessons of Brexit”.
https://theintercept.com/2016/11/09/democrats-trump-and-the-ongoing-dangerous-refusal-to-learn-the-lesson-of-brexit/
The problem with Greenwald and his ilk is that he has to jam everything that happens into the context of his anti-authoritarian, anti-elite obsessions. He can only see things through one lens. [Water Grand Trine of Pisces Sun trine Jupiter in Cancer trine Neptune, formed into a Kite by Sun opp Uranus Pluto – certainly a rebel and destabiliser, but not always too good at interfacing with reality.]
Yes, he makes a few sensible points but more that are off beam. I know some very ‘elite’ people who were and are very pro-Brexit, hankering after the old glory days of independence; and many other Brexiteers were understandably worried by the staggeringly high levels of immigration which the Blair mafia fostered, and looked like getting worse after Merkel’s impulsive gesture.
Jeremy Corbyn – ‘authentically left-wing’ – well I wouldn’t disagree with that necessarily given that he has simple-mindedly supported some truly hair-raising regimes, which waved the flag of socialism and condemned their poor downtrodden masses to a worse fate than they had suffered under capitalist elites. Plus he was, for decades, egregiously disloyal to the party in whose name he sat in Westminster; and in more recent times managed to lie about getting rid of student loans without having considered what he was saying (apart from its seductive effect); and lied by omission about being a Remainer to pick up young voters who are en masse pro-staying in the EU.
My general take on politicians is I don’t like or trust any of them, including (and sometimes especially) the holier-than-thou ones. But I’ll settle for competence and strength. They don’t need to be people I’d be best buddies with as long as they do the job and are capable of defending the country’s interests.
Having said all that, I do think Pluto in Capricorn is grinding its way along, initially wrecking and then hopefully (!!) rebuilding political systems and attitudes.
I hope you’re right about that Pluto in Capricorn, Marjorie. How long is it here before it moves into the next sign? The thing is, I don’t think we’ll see the positive effects of Pluto until decades later. I mean, right now, he’s bulldozing down old structures. We are all sat in a complete mess with incompetent leaders. It will take a pretty long while to rebuild into a new direction.
What was happening the last time Pluto was in Capricorn and did it look like we were taken in a different direction by the time it entered the next sign? Has there ever been a time in astrological history where the astrology never fit and it went into a worse direction? I’d think to maintain an interest in astrology it would have to fit pretty much most of the time, otherwise, the art would have died out long ago?
The litany of allegations against Hilary, pay to play access via the Clinton foundation, corruptly and perhaps traitorously processing classified data via a home server, acting as enabller to the sexual exploits ( rape?) of her husband, mysterious deaths around the Clintons over the decades back to Whitewater and the Alabama days, are certainly classically Plutonic in nature. Hard to imagine that she and mad Donald were the best America could produce. Is she still technically the leader and presumptive candidate for the Democratic Party or are they looking for someone new? What does the astrology say about her career prospects, and the prospects for the Democratic Party more generally?
Question — aren’t people with 12th house suns, as Hilary has in this chart, meant to work in the background? (I think GW Bush also had a 12th house sun, which is odd for a president. Hilary was the most admired person in the country 4 or 5 years ago, but people are fickle. I voted for her, but always wondered why she ran after she had that blood clot on her brain. Wasn’t she NOT listening to her body and going against what God or the Universe was telling her? Yes, she is tough as nails and so determined and that makes her very admirable.
Oddly enough 12th house Suns are relatively common amongst political leaders – George W Bush, Tony Blair, Gordon Brown, Ariel Sharon, Golda Meir etc. JFK had an even more hidden 8th house Sun. What it can mean is that they have a carefully crafted persona which masks the real them – so there’s more of a gap between the external image and the private reality than with most people. Laurence Olivier, the actor with a flamboyantly public life, had a 12th house Sun. It can be creative as well as good at behind-the-scenes wheeling and dealing.
But a strong 12th house placement does need peace and quiet time to re-centre and recharge. They tend to be very porous psychologically, soaking in what’s around them so get overloaded with too many people around constantly, which is why they have to put up barricades.
I have a bucketload in the 12th including my Sun and Liz Greene said to me years ago that with a 12th house emphasis it’s crucial to come to terms with the unconscious otherwise it’ll eat you. Which is certainly true. I tend to be overly reclusive, though I’ve had phases of being pretty much out there. But always retreated into my protective shell with great relief.
My take on Hillary Clinton, seen from a distance, is that –
1. She did a decent job as Obama’s Secretary of State and was a real grafter – described as a workhorse not a show pony; and ditto NY Senator.
2. The Republicans are dirty fighters, poisonously so, and much worse than the Democrats, so were constantly throwing mud which stuck – for example look at the recent Seth Rich faux conspiracy, birtherism and going backwards. Pots and kettles, yet the double standards don’t seem to apply the other way.
3. Her Mars Pluto conjunction plus Scorpio planets will attract hostility, possibly out of all proportion to anything she’s done. So she made money – Trump??? and all the others. She stood by her unfaithful man – Europe looked on in bewilderment at that whole farrago. Jackie Kennedy stood by her man and no one blinks. Some people get away with blue murder and manage to maintain likeability or have a Teflon luck factor. Hillary’s Jupiter is weak. Trump’s is strong; Bernie Sanders, whose chart I don’t warm to, has Jupiterian help from his chart.
Most public figures aren’t remotely what they seem which usually only emerges after they fall off their perches. Some get trashed in ways they don’t deserve while others get off scot free – for a while.
Putin has a 12th house sun. Also George Lucas, who ruled an entire universe until he sold it to Disney.
Great analysis Marjorie
I’d say that the 12th house Suns have a mallable self. Therefore, if the circumstances are right, they can become leaders, at least apparently so. Take George W. Bush. He actually seems to be at his happiest now, painting at his ranch, surrounded by family. He definitely would have never become a politician, at least beyond local level, were it not for his family. They made him into a President.
I seem to recall Hillary Rodham Clinton too had a mother who strongly drove her education and career choices. It could be that being a Minister was what she wanted, deep down, all along. I feel that a part of the “fakeness” people associate with her rises from here: Being a political leader really never was her, despite her willpower (I think this is Mars, and Scorpio being traditionally ruled by Mars, she has tons of it).
I hope this makes sense, but this is my observation as a 1st house Sun, quite hurt actually by the fact “my true self” doesn’t allow me any compromises, and I tend to fail a lot in my life because sometimes it would help just let go of this.
Solaia, Makes perfect sense. I’m not sure the internal self is malleable with a 12th house Sun but the external persona certainly is – bit of a shape shifter. And very protective of the true self inside which is rarely allowed public exposure. It can be handy for public careers since there is a strong and pliable outer defence which deflects criticism/mishaps etc and they aren’t experienced as impinging on the inner core.
You’ll be much more exposed with a 1st house Sun. What you see is what you get with that placing, whereas a 12th house Sun separates out what others see from the very different person inside. And normally it isn’t as ego-driven or ego-dependent as other placings. That seems counter-intuitive with narcissistic Tony Blair with a 12th house Sun; but his Sun is on the focal point of a T Square which magnifies his ego, and has a super-controlling Pluto.
I think you’re right about GWB, who relied heavily on Cheney/Rumsfeld; and Hillary who was custom-built as Secy of State and never tried to outshine Obama.
But still a 1st house Sun is very bouncy and straightforward, so its swings and roundabouts.
I don’t want to re-litigate the 2016 election. However, accusations and smears are too often doled out as facts, when it comes to Hillary Clinton. I enthusiastically voted for Hillary! I love her because from a relatively humble beginning, she took public service to heart, and ran with it. Is she a perfect human being, hell no! But neither is any of us. She would have been a kick ass president. Sorry Putin selected our current WH occupant.
SO true. Blessings, Jan.
I voted for Hilary elnthusiastically, and not as the lesser of two evils. She is an extremely competent and intelligent woman who fought all her life for women and children, and served US interests as Secretary of State, while her opponent has done nothing for anyone but himself for his entire life. Yes, her Scorpio side was unfortunately too self-protective, but I’m not sure who wouldn’t be given how she was demonized by the right in this country for decades. Aside from public speeches, she is known to be warm and funny which doesn’t always come across, although I never found her off-putting in debates. She toughed out a brutal campaign, taking everything they could throw at her, much of it misogynistic, much of it manufactured fake news, and came out on top with 3 million more votes than her opponent and would be president but for our outmoded electoral system. As for corruption, Trump and his family leave the Clintons looking like saints. If Hillary were president and we saw even a hint of what we know about Trump she’d be out of office and in prison already.
Thank you Les! I enthusiastically agree with you.
Most of us voted for Hillary Clinton because we considered that she was the lesser of two evils. No one I know voted for her with enthusiasm. The U.S. was more than ready for a woman president, but her unchecked greed, ugly and (literally) corrupt power moves against Senator Sanders, rictus grin, and complete lack of spontaneity and authenticity were just off-putting enough to keep many voters on the sidelines. Now that the U.S. is in real danger with our joke of a current president, I’m sure many who stayed away from the polls are regretting it. Hillary may have been awful, but she wasn’t crazy. I am still disbelieving that a great country of 300 million people had only those two as choices. Thank you, Marjorie, for your recent analyses of other U.S. senators and presidential prospects. And God keep us until 2020 or the impeachment.
Deborah, there is no way you can know why “most of us” voted the way we did.
From your description of Clinton–awful, unchecked greed, ugly, corrupt, rictus grin, off-putting lack of authenticity and spontaneity–I truly doubt you voted for her.
No one you know voted for her with enthusiasm? They had to be afraid to say anything favorable about her around you. Any enthusiasm about her would have been met with the foul wind of your opinions.
When I was younger, I really liked who I thought Hillary Clinton was until many articles and stories were written about her ruthlessness and ambitious approach and actions taken not only in her career but also in her husbands. No one is perfect, especially politicians and with Ms. Clinton’s intelligence she would make an excellent leader especially compared to the clown who is now ‘in charge’. I am just deeply saddened that her Plutonian (?) character seemed to take over and added to her undoing. I don’t think we should be so quick to accept the inevitable corruption of our politicians especially when you compare the Clintons to Bernie Sanders, Elizabeth Warren and the now deceased former Texas Governor Anne Richards. Not everyone has to give in to the ‘dark side’. Maybe this is one of Hillary Clinton’s soul lessons who knows. We all have them. Welcome to humanity!
Bernie Sanders has published his opinion that women crave rape and three-ways. If that’s not the dark side to you, I shudder to think what is.
I doubt that anyone who uses the words and phrases you did in reference to her (Plutonian character, corruption, dark side, ruthlessness), voted for her. Both you and Deborah jumped right in when Marjorie posted this. Bots or macedonians, who knows, but both your incredibly conflicted stories are not believable. Welcome to the response of a real Clinton voter!
You are totally wrong then. I never have been a fan of Bill or Hillary Clinton. Can’t stand them, really. But I not only voted for her, I personally campaigned for her in two swing states. I did this because I am a Democratic Party activist with some responsibility to the party’s nominee, and because the only realistic alternative winner was too awful to contemplate. And still is. Most of my acquaintances voted for Hillary, about half enthusiastically and half not. The idea that people with negative perceptions of Hillary are lying about having voted for her is, frankly, absurd.
Rob, you are wrong, and it is not absurd. The internet is a bot/paid-opinion paradise. Anytime Trump tweets, there is a snowstorm of bots cheering him on. Ordinary people have investigated and found stock photos being used as avatars, fake facebook accounts, the tip of the iceberg for an estimated 15,000,000 pro-Trump bots covering his Twitter feed. And the thing is, bots are easy to program and extremely cheap. Anywhere there is a public comment that needs to be iced, bots will pop up.
And one more thing, Mr. I’m a Democrat Activist (nudge nudge wink wink). IF this is true, you are a cynical wolf in sheep’s clothing IF you work for the Democratic Party and can’t stand the Clintons. How poorly you performed your job with those emotions only contributed to the Trump victory. Shame on you.