8th house – home to myth and psychic forces

Following on from the Germany post below – seismic changes ahead.

Tapping into ‘archaic energy’, rooted in the far distant past always involves a perilous journey into the depths of the 8th house, going way beyond the boundaries of the conscious mind. What the Germany country chart and Hitler’s shared was Pluto in the 8th. Amongst its many meanings is an interest in the occult and a temptation to use magic forces selfishly to dominate others. Pluto is about power and in the 8th uses unseen methods (magic amongst others) to gain control and to manipulate, sometimes over financial matters.  It need not be as overt as it was with Hitler, since it can operate unconsciously.

  In Hitler’s case it was especially strong since his Pluto was conjunct Neptune which added a megalomaniac strand to his ambitions and doubled up his leaning towards the supernatural. He is known to have been fascinated by magic and occult practices (even stripping out the fabricated nonsense written about him). A favourite book of his on magic by Ernst Schertel was underlined by him – “He who does not have the demonic seed within himself will never give birth to a magical world”. And his mentor Dietrich Eckhart claims to have been the one calling the tune. “We have given him the ‘means of communication’ with Them. I shall have influenced history more than any other German.”

  Hitler was empowering himself through the 1930s as tr Uranus moved across the conjunction to the Germany Pluto stirring up deeply buried archetypal energies (see previous post 5 October 2020) which repeats in 2022. In an individual chart, 8th house planets connect directly into the ancestral line in a way that others who don’t share this placing lack. It’s a blessing and a curse. Being deeply unconscious, 8th house planets can attract circumstances seemingly out of the native’s control and lead to a life filled with more drama than most.  

What makes Germany perhaps more susceptible than other countries to being caught up in fantastical or mythic beliefs is Uranus square Neptune in the 10th/7th houses. This tends to bring emotional and psychic confusion, a highly-strung temperament and fixed opinions which are impervious to rational argument. So extremism, fanaticism, rigid and unreasonable attitudes. When Hitler became Chancellor in 1933 tr Uranus in Aries was conjunct the Germany Neptune and moving to square the Uranus.

  Carl Jung believed that the mythic figure of Wotan or Odin was personified in Hitler who carried/lived out unconscious “psychic forces” that moved through the German people. Hitler’s 7th house Venus Mars in Taurus was conjunct the Germany Uranus so he was tied into the German psyche at a subterranean level.

  Of Wotan Jung said: “He is the god of storm and frenzy, the unleasher of passions and the lust of battle; moreover he is a superlative magician and artist in illusion who is versed in all secrets of an occult nature.” The storm, passion, frenzy and lust are redolent of Dionysius the nature god of death and rebirth and sexuality – which equates well with Pluto. Though the magician/artist in illusion has overtones of Hermes, Mercury and Uranus, the trickster gods.

   The Magician has a gift for miracle and deception and is a “maze of contradictions”, an incorporation of many disparate elements (as portrayed in the Tarot figure). He has the magic sun power as well as Medusa’s snaky locks – an ability to remain ambiguous and carry the polar opposites. To be and not be at the same time.

  Fascism lives out the death and rebirth myth, centred on the ego of the god-like leader, who destroys the past (Mao?) to create a new order entirely to his command and credit. So is destructive and creative. Inherent in fascism is absolute obedience amongst the followers – “He who does not think as the group does is excluded, harassed, killed or declared insane.” (Chasseguet-Smirgel.) And London analyst Christopher Bollas says of the fascist state of mind that it “entertains no doubt or uncertainty”.  The modus operandi is a process of denigration, character assassination, caricaturing, all of which distorts the views of opponents to render them less intelligible and credible. They have to be discredited because no separation of view is possible from the accepted one. Sound familiar?

  All of the above sound very Plutonic.

   Sakoian & Acker connect the Saturn Pluto conjunction to the magician, with its ability to channel occult powers through structured systems. The power urge of Pluto plus the status urge of Saturn.

  The other facet of the magician is revelation which links back to Uranus and Mercury.

  There will be no one astrological signature for an archetype as complex as the magician.

  Winston Churchill also had Pluto in the 8th opposition Mercury and square Uranus; with Neptune on the cusp of the 8th – so he also had the power to wield unseen power and sway the masses. Not that there’s any suggestion he practised occult powers – often 8th house abilities are unconscious. Movie superstars who fairly often have Pluto or Neptune in the 8th are unaware of why they have an uncanny ability to project an aura that rings a chord with millions of fans.

  It remains to be seen what will stir in the German psyche – and part of the tr Uranus effect will be financial. As it will be for the UK and EU since it is moving through their financial 8th houses respectively at the same time.  When the UK 8th house Mars is triggered as it will be in 2021 it often coincides with destructive accidents – ferry sinkings, train crashes etc if past experience is anything to go by. What will uncoil from deep within the national psyche remains to be seen. But worth watching out for.

55 thoughts on “8th house – home to myth and psychic forces

  1. While weeding out my paranormal file last night, I came upon this interesting quote from Carl Jung: “Synchronicity is an ever-present reality for those who have eyes to see.”

    • Another great quote! I’d add “for those with ears to hear” as well. I’m sure many of us have had that odd experience of reading or speaking a word that then almost simultaneously is broadcast on tv or radio. When it’s an unusual word or name, this really stands out. Yes, you can argue we’re primed to notice it, but sometimes it’s quite odd. Now and then, you might speak a word or name and then see a van or lorry passing in front of you in the traffic with the name on it’s side. This happened to me with the word “Saturn”…..

      • Has anyone listened to the ‘Unexplained’ podcast with Richard Maclean Smith? It’s a wonderful series of true stories of the anomalous and/or paranormal told beautifully and intelligently by the presenter. I can recommend.

  2. Jo: Will definitely add Chris Carter’s books to my reading list. Have done a bit of research about his books online. Very impressed. Thanks for providing the info!

  3. Wow, what your ex experienced at that airport is exactly the kind of thing that has been so prevalent in my life. And double wow re his 8th house Neptune (like me)……he probably had other similar experiences. I will never understand why the vast majority of people ignore, shun and spurn the phenomena we’ve been discussing on this thread. It’s all right before everyone’s eyes, yet it’s constantly swept under the rug. People don’t know what they’re missing. I don’t dare mention my interest in astrology, etc., to family. They’d think I was an absolute loon and put me on meds. I guess it all comes down to “ordinary mortals having to shut it all off since life gets too overwhelming if all the filters come off…..” But it’s such a pity.

    • One of my most powerful gut feelings was in January 2017. I had a mother figure in my life and who was in her mid-70s and as fit as a fiddle. She had to go down to London to meet up with her daughter to fly out to Pennsylvania for her sister’s funeral. We planned to meet at the platform for her to hand a bag over to me (she would hand over any food in her fridge instead of throwing it out if she was going away for more than a few days); I knew instinctively I would never see her again. It was such a profound, intense feeling. The metro doors shut, and I watched the train go down the tracks and tried to shake off the feeling, telling myself don’t be so melodramatic. She stayed in London for a few days before flying out to the States.

      I had this niggling feeling in the back of my mind all week and then one afternoon while at my computer I heard tapping on the wall next to my left ear. Behind that wall is the passageway to the front door, so it wasn’t the neighbours. Then, about an hour after that happened, there was a distinct knock on the front door that was similar to how she knocked. It set the dogs off and I went to check – and there was nobody there. I knew by then my feelings were right. The following night I got a call from her daughter. She had passed in the most freakish way. She had woken up in the middle of the night with cramp in her foot and hopped back towards the bedroom door only to fall from the step backwards and break her neck! She died in hospital in agony about 5 days later. It was so random and not expected. So where does this feeling or knowing come from?

      Weirdly the week before, she had woken up in her bed to what she thought were screams coming from inside her home. She thought it was her sister (who had terminal cancer) and instinctively ran down the passageway calling out for her saying, “it’s okay. I’m with you. I’m always with you. There’s no need to be scared!” Her sister passed within the next 24 hours only for her to follow suit just over a week later. Very spooky.

      I could write a book on many of the paranormal and weird synchronicities that have happened to me and my family. There were even a few months when living in the family home in the mid-1990s after my stepfather began knocking the kitchen out that ghostly things began to happen before it escalated into a full-blown poltergeist situation. My stepfather was deeply sceptical of the paranormal and believed “when your dead your dead. There is nothing there!” (which I feel a lot of men lean to in their beliefs) But there was almost a week where myself, then in my early 20’s, and my two mid-teenage brothers, were sleeping on the floor of my parents bedroom as casette tapes and books were being flung from my bedroom and down the stairs and my wall-bed was being slammed up and down. All five of us could hear this and we were all accounted for and yet my stepfather was to chicken**** to go and investigate. But he refused to believe in life after death.

      Soon after, my mother and stepfather began training for a career in the pub trade and landed a relief in a Pub in Yorkshire whose history went back to the 1400s. Two ghostly children were often seen and heard by staff and customers on quite a regular basis. One cleaner left her job because she saw a boy and girl in the wall of the function room screaming at her, “The roundheads are coming! The Roundheads are coming!” A female barmaid was stopped mid-pee by a Cavalier booting her stall door in! And the children of customers often commented, especially in the snug, why the boy in the corner didn’t have food or drinks.

      The pub was unique in that in order to get to the accommodation you had to lock the pub up and walk around the building and go up some stairs (most pubs you can access the upstairs from behind the bar, usually, or a door close by). After my parents locked up for the night they came into the living room and the conversation of these ghosts came up and my stepfather was getting quite irrate about the subject saying it was all bull****. Then all of a sudden you could hear these kids right beneath the living room floor from the bar below running around, banging stuff, and what sounded like screaming with fun. I turned the tv off and there was no radio on either. It was absolutely distinct there was somebody in the bar, definitely kids’ voices jumping around and having fun. But the alarms never went off and my stepfather refused point-blank to investigate! Why would someone who didn’t believe in such a thing not do it? He did look scared though! The pub before it was an ale house used to be two cottages that belonged to Jospeh Priestley (1733-1804) and his aunt and he had apparently been seen at times too.

      Chris Carter, who is Oxford educated in Economics and Philosophy wrote three brilliant books investigating from a scientific lens and coming to the conclusion that the afterlife and the paranormal is indeed real. I like works like this that can look at everything until they can’t explain what’s left. I highly recommend them if you are into having this kind of research thoroughly investigated. The three titles are:
      1) Science and the Near-Death Experience: How Consciousness Survives Death
      2) Science and Psychic Phenomena: The Fall of the House of Skeptics
      3) Science and the Afterlife Experience: Evidence for the Immortality of Consciousness

      Sorry for the long-ass post!

  4. Interesting about some people being more prone to experience synchronistic events than others. I’d never considered that. I certainly have had my fair share and they never cease to astound and fascinate. Maybe it’s that neptune in my 8th house.

    • The other oddity is that most often synchronistic/paranormal experiences which seem deeply significant to the individual having them, don’t have the same resonance for listeners. They either sound crackpot or at least not as remarkable as the person relating the tale.

  5. I’m loving this thread. I wonder how many here have had experiences with synchronicity, Jung’s term for meaningful coincidence. I’ve had countless such experiences. Here’s one example: My parents did not have a good marriage. They never divorced but were separated. They were born on the same day of back-to-back months, my mother on Sept. 22, my father on Oct. 22. My father’s funeral fell on Jan. 31–their wedding anniversary. My mother’s funeral fell on my father’s birthday. Moreover, golf was a big part of their lives. My father’s grave–on the west coast–is adjacent to a golf course. My mother’s grave–on the east coast–is adjacent to a golf course. None of this was planned–it’s just the way it turned out. I’ve given all of the above a lot of thought and have concluded that, despite my parents’ marital problems, their union was somehow fated……so that they could learn specific lessons from one another(?). At least, that’s how I’m interpreting the coincidences. Perhaps I’m making too much of this. Then again, I don’t think so. I might add that the way they met was seemingly quite random and a little bit extraordinary. My father, a young Marine who was headed to the Pacific during WW11, went with his buddies to a famous nightclub in Los Angeles on his last night in the States. It was there that he spotted my mother, who was with a friend, across the room, went over and asked her to dance. While they were dancing, he told her he was going to marry her. Is anything really random? I’m beginning to think not.

    • Hmm. My take is that life is part random and part ordered. Facing up to the randomness of certain happenings is truly difficult which is why it feels more comfortable to wrap everything up into a narrative of order, even a mysterious one.
      My humble experience is that certain people are more prone to synchronistic events than others. Which may be an 8th or 12th house thing or a strong Pluto.

      • My ex-husband was at a UK airport one day and looking for a mail box to post some important business letters, one to Canada. A man he knew slightly, who was Canadian and had just flown in, tapped him on the shoulder and said ‘you dropped this. Ah it’s addressed to me.’ He could have saved himself the UK to Canada stamp. My ex had an 8th house Neptune and Mars.
        On a different paranormal tack – Rupert Sheldrake set out to prove that dogs had telepathic powers knowing when their owner was about to come home. Which has always been known to dog afficianados. A stable owner I knew had a favourite terrier, who ten minutes before he was due home, would get out of her basket where she’d been ever since he left, and trot off to the bottom of the drive to welcome him back. So the grooms knew to get water into the stables since the horses were due back from a show.

        • My neighbour’s cat knows when she’s coming home. We observe said cat walking over to neighbour’s regular parking space roughly 5 to 10 minutes before she arrives home from work and sits himself on the kerb, waiting – this happens every weekday! It’s most touching, but then I’ve always felt that animals are far more wise and sentient than we know.

          • Yes, a pair of cats I had used to do this too! Most amazingly, they would wait in the hall when I, or someone else in the house, was returning from a longer trip. We figured out they went to sit in the hall around the exact time the plane landed, quite a while before the human arrived at the actual front door. In one instance, they went to wait and then after a while gave up. There’d been a delay at the airport, so homecoming delayed by two hours. Whatever I’ve read about animals’ acute hearing doesn’t work for these instances, they could not possibly hear a plane landing many miles away and know someone in their family was on it!

    • Perhaps what we think of as ‘random’ is simply another kind of pattern? One we haven’t factored into our consciousness or current understanding? I suspect there’s some sort of energy matrix or something that connects us, that things are interlinked in ways we can’t see. Often things happen that aren’t that meaningful, yet give pause for thought. There’s a website called Understandinguncertainty.org that’s collecting them, based at Cambridge University. ‘Cambridge coincidences’ is the section for the stories. I’m usually wary of academics trying to drive everything towards proving a pet theory, but the stories are genuine and we can make up our own minds about what they mean!

  6. Sorry.. should read Akashic (birdy must have flown).
    Birds appearing in our lives are perhaps then about something we are missing – a reminder.
    Astrology is fascinating and we never stop learning. Less perhaps about predicting, more about timing. But an absolutely brilliant guide book to life.
    Mary Hart: Pluto conjunct North Node can indicate a difficult childhood, perhaps with mental bullying. Something though that can only be released individually. For the more spiritual reading I use the Koch house system, but for physical life Placidus seems to work for me. I would suggest that you have the choice of both levels…

  7. Jane: ‘It’s a shame this phenomenon has become a taboo subject, difficult to discuss publicly – [seeing through the veil]. I hope Pluto in Aquarius brings a less stifled approach to such things. They may have something to teach us about the nature of physics, as well as the nature of life itself.’

    It’s one of my favourite hobby horses – about the blinkered scientific approach to what doesn’t fit into its theories. Ernest Becker is very acute about humanity being fundamentally dishonest about reality – that what we call sanity is a delusion, since our self-protective instincts shuts out anything that isn’t helpful in coping with the daily grind.
    I’ve never seen ghosts, not my thing. But I’ve had very odd experiences with birds, which if I were more magico-spiritually inclined I might understand as them bringing messages to me from the other side. But I can’t quite get my head around that. So they reside in a sort of limbo land in my life. Undoubtedly there and very real but without an explanation.

    “No part of the aim of normal science is to call forth new sorts of phenomena; indeed those that will not fit the box are often not seen at all.” Dean Radin
    Science is still only a candle glimmering in a great pitch-dark cavern.” ― Mario Vargas Llosa
    “The rise of modern science has brought with it increasing acceptance among intellectual elites of a picture of reality that conflicts sharply both with everyday human experience and with beliefs widely shared among the world’s great cultures.” Edward F Kelly: Beyond Physicalism.
    “Theory is all very well, but it doesn’t prevent things from existing.” Freud
    “Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored”. Aldous Huxley
    Kohler: Each science has a sort of attic into which things are almost automatically pushed that cannot be used at the moment, that do not quite fit …We are constantly putting aside, unused, a wealth of valuable material [which leads to] blocking of scientific progress.

    • I love all the quotes! Yes, I think people tend to go with whatever the current consensus might be – to the point of denying or “forgetting” experiences that don’t fit that apparent reality. My late uncle was a physicist. He had a number of paranormal experiences. Most influential was one that happened during the daytime, with a friend, while out walking in Cornwall. He kept an open (Gemini) mind all his life. I think this helped me as a child, to see that one could combine science and mystery and keep asking questions. No need for either side to seek to ignore or rubbish the other. The wilder shores of quantum physics may possibly light the way forward…..and those doors of perception will open wide one fine day.

    • One of my favourite quotes is Shakespeare’s, ‘There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
      Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.’

      • Yes, me too Jo. I also wanted to say how much I’ve been enjoying this post and the comments. Really thought provoking. Thanks everyone!

        • I like this from Albert Einstein;

          “There are only two ways to live your life; one is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle.”

    • I have the same experience with birds, which I have put down to spiritual insights. I do get slightly concerned when a bird flies against the window and dies – I can usually discern where I am missing something.
      Expect you have 9th House planets which represents, in my world, the Akaski level of consciousness, as against the 8th which, again in my view, is the Astral level. I haven’t looked……!

      • Cassandra, Thanks for that. Yes I have Moon Uranus in the 9th in airy Gemini. I was never superstitious about birds until an odd set of happenings with magpies got me interested decades back. I spoke about it once on radio and the Scottish Education board wrote asking if they could use in one of their exam papers which amused me. I don’t see magpies as death-dealing, more than an indication of traffic delays ahead. And the other syncronistic sightings have on the whole been lucky rather than the reverse. Though the poor little dead robin, beak crushed by slamming into my office window late last year preceded a horrendous run of unexpected dental surgery.
        Ornithomancy, divination by the birds, is attributed by Aeschylus to Prometheus, who is associated with Uranus.

  8. I have Sun, Mars, Moon and Mercury in the 8th and Pluto in Scorpio squares the first three of those planets. Very concentrated energy and when I dig into things I really dig and dig until I hit bedrock. Also lots of interest in magic, alternate realities, general esoteric matters. Possibly my saving grace is a strong Saturn (also in Scorpio, in the 12th) which trines my Sun and Mars and squares my Mercury.

  9. Pluto in my 8th house is my biggest Teacher. Dutch mother who lived right near Arnhem during the War and German father running from the Russian army at 15 while his family was captured and sent to “work camps”, 1/2 of them dying. A legacy of misery and trauma that goes back generations.

    Add to that … my Sun is EXACTLY conjunct both my parents Pluto. When I first saw that, in my 30’s, I burst into tears for them. Who would want a bright Sun shining on their Shadow all the time? Then I cried for me, because I had to completely shut down for most of my childhood.

    I always knew there was a Hitler in me, and if he was in me then he was in everyone. Because I was also good. My saving grace? I became utterly obsessed with the darkest, bloodiest old fairy tales. Instinctively I must have been drawn to these archetypal stories to try to make sense of my HUGE rage. Thank goodness for these!!

    And, yes, having Pluto in the 8th… I know exactly how dark a person can go. I could have done that. And I know that once a door is open, it can never close. I may have been attracted to certain things, but I have been ever so careful about what I choose.

    Early on I knew that my path in life was to know how to “meet Evil” directly.. in myself and in others… but to not become that Evil. A path Darth Vader was unsuccessful at doing!!

    terrific post Marjorie,
    so apropos during this time of an awakened Shadow.
    We all need to look at the Pluto energy in ourselves, rather than point fingers outwards. The people I trust the most.. and they are few… know their Pluto.. know what they COULD do.. and consciously choose not to.

    thanks so much,

    • Sandra, enjoyed this post immensely. Very few people can be so objective re their own darker energies. I often wonder if others attend self evaluation as you have, and you have been up against it! Bravo to you doing so much shadow work and sharing your difficult journey!

  10. Does my topic apply?

    An artist friend (well, now ex-friend) of whom I’ve contacted you about, taught me how to “open my mind to see spirits”. That was in the late 1990’s. Ever since, I’m unable to turn off that psychic television. I see people walking down the street in Seattle…and then cars will drive thru their shapes. These spirits are often clothed in grey tattered rags, hinting of a past from hundreds of years ago. DEfinitely not of this region but from Europe. I distinctly recall one of these “spirits” standing at a 4-way intersection, head tilted as “he” tried to make sense of an automobile. The light changed and the vehicle drove thru the apparition; the spirit walked away unaffected.

    When my cats pass away, they suddenly appear mid-air, pawing at me to grab my attention. One particular white cat has been visiting me since fall 2004. She’ll appear, for example, in a hospital after hopping thru the wall, or while I’m taking a shower.

    I cared for special needs cats at a shelter until a few yrs ago; when those cats died, inevitably they would appear in the apartment. One in particular, nick-named Chubby Cheeks, would make his presence known by walking thru the bathroom wall or bathroom door, circle about for a bit, trying to rub his head against my leg, and then exit thru the wall.

    In yet another case, an abandoned kitty I was feeding came to visit me one night while I was camping in the mtns. He walked thru the side of the tent and I immediately noticed starlight in his fur. As he walked up to me, I reached out to touch his fur – which was icy cold but soft as starlight. He meowed and circled twice, then walked back out thru the tent wall. I knew then he’d succumbed.

    • This certainly illustrates that time is not ‘linear’. Present past and future, all interwoven. A concept I accept but find it hard to understand. How does this psychic television effect your mental health?

  11. I have 5 planets in Scorpio- does that count? And Moon in the 8th. Oh.. and Mars conjunct Pluto now I think of it. I’ve always been keenly aware of other people’s hidden agendas and motives. Sometimes when other people ask me for my opinion on personal matters they perceive me as a threat, because I can see straight trough false beliefs and concepts of self. But those individuals do not see that I would never use that knowledge against them, I just want to help them uncover their true selves and bring them into alignment with their purest essence. And yes, I am currently in the process of becoming a therapist for the soul 🙂 The Scorpio/8th House energy is not for wussies, it is very intense and can be transformative. It needs an evolved soul to not misuse this kind of power, I guess. I prefer to use it for healing others, even if sometimes to my own detriment.

    • Similar. Four planets in Scorpio and Pluto Rising in the 12th with Uranus/BLM/North Node in the 12th.

      As you say, it’s an intense energy and can be self-destructive if not channelled creatively. With me, I always loved art and drawing and had an active, somewhat chaotic imagination (my stellium is in the 3rd) but being born with Pluto Rising, from word go I was subject to quite dark, overwhelming thoughts and feelings and trauma which have given me some mental health problems. I have had to learn to manage and control my thoughts and feelings over the years. I also have this problem where I pick up on general feelings around me, so in crowds can be inundated with ‘stuff’ that isn’t mine. Have to give myself time alone to ‘become myself’ again.

  12. “…..he had 8th house planets–it is the doorway into the beyond. Which ordinary mortals have to shut off since life gets too overwhelming if all the filters come off and the great cosmic soup comes pouring through.” Wonderful observation. So well said. Thank you for that.

  13. Another thought to bear in mind is the rise of Hitler/fascism in Germany came on the back of the WW1 defeat and humiliation at Versailles. Germany is far from humiliated now having risen to become the lead EU economy.

  14. Interesting … on a personal level, I have Neptune in the 8th, in Scorpio, sextile Pluto/Moon and square Venus

    I seem to have a strong sixth sense (which I’ve often ignored at my own expense, and now try to heed), and some premonitions in dreams.

    A few extraordinary dreams where it feels like I am tapping into something deeper than myself, like a historical memory I couldn’t possibly have lived.

    I also recall my earliest dream: being the only one in the family brave (and naive) enough to open a coffin, only to be bitten by a snake. Even at that age I recognized it as a significant dream.

    I try not to exert my ‘power’ (also sun moon pluto triple conj), sensing that it would be wrong to do so for self-serving reasons; but I will to defend others, or if forced to defend myself, tho it gives me no pleasure, feeling like I unleashed something I wish I didn’t have to. I prefer using it for deep ‘investigative’ purposes, such as understanding others’ psych, figuring out how to heal others and myself.

    Neptune sq Venus not good except for my art; otherwise brings confusion, esp between reality and fantasy, tho the rest of my chart keeps me sufficiently grounded.

    • I hear you Terri, especially unleashing destructive side when another wants you to fall on their sword. Also have Neptune square Venus- this has manifested in being deceived,(Neptune and Jupiter conjunct in Scorpio in 7th) and have found a way to divert deceivers- deceive them back:( it’s not really harmful, but they leave confused, not obtaining desired outcome) expecting others to respect boundaries, which some folks don’t, and seeing the invasion in hindsight. Confusion re what could be, versus what is.
      Like to ‘investigate’, but have looked at healing arts, don’t think I am cut out for that. Lack of self love is not improved by over-giving to others. We are all works in progress.

  15. Interesting.

    Anyhow, by mid century, the certainty will be that the majority of the population of the nation state of Germany will not be German by blood – and bear in mind the great importance Germans place on blood relationship.
    In fact, a vast proportion of the German population will be of Afro/Asian extraction, and not European at all. Merkel’s actions in 2015 sealed Germany’s fate on that score. Just wait until the endless rounds of ‘family reunifications’ start.

    My point is any sort of German nationalist revival or Hitlerian atavism is impossible under this new reality.

  16. Very sad, you would hope the German people learned their lessons in 1949-45. Concerned about my family who are in the Netherlands next door & several relatives are still alive & lived through WWII

  17. I have Neptune in my eighth house. In fact, I have a lot of Neptune in my chart, which offsets–to an extent–my being a damn-the-torpedoes-full-speed-ahead quadruple Aries (sun, moon, mars, mercury in Aries). I have always been extremely interested in all things occult. I treasure the quote/observation from Saint-Exupery’s “Le Petit Prince”: “…….what is essential is invisible to the eye.” For anyone on this forum who’s interested, I highly recommend “Walking Through Walls” by Philip Smith. It’s one of my all-time favorite books, which says a lot because I’m a voracious reader. I read it for the third time several weeks ago–that’s how good it is. It’s a memoir about Smith’s amazingly psychic father. Exceptionally well-written, mind-expanding/blowing and also very funny. I believe it’s still available via Amazon.

    • I’ll check that book out, Julie. I love stuff like this. And yes to The Little Prince quote! That was the quote that struck deep the first time I read that book about 15 years ago. I was an adult when I read it, but it’s such a strange yet wonderful little book.

    • Walking through Walls – love the image. This isn’t an astrological story sadly since it came from my pre-star days. I once filmed for a documentary on ghosts a tour guide to the old War Cabinet rooms below Whitehall. He’d seen ordinary workers who had been there during WW11. And he’d also seen a monk but only from the knees up – these underground spaces had been used catacomb-like in the 13th century and the ground level had risen since then, hence the frozen half-image.
      I mentioned to him en passant that he had a sharp memory for names since, having ticked off his 20 or so tourists on his booking list at the start, he’d then called each by name thereafter. He said he had to since he needed to distinguish the ‘real’ people from the others. And the only way he could tell the difference was the real people used doorways and didn’t walk through the walls.
      I guarantee he had 8th house planets – it is the doorway into the beyond. Which ordinary mortals have to shut off since life gets too overwhelming if all the filters come off and the great cosmic soup comes pouring through.

      • Yes my mother (Neptune rising in the 12th and Uranus in the 8th) has had ghostly experiences which she used to regale us with when we were children. This gave us a lifelong curiosity in the paranormal. Also she experienced what she can only describe as a psychic attack.

        She was evacuated during WW2 when her boarding school relocated to the countryside. The house was haunted by the spirit of a maid who had hanged herself in one of the rooms my mother occupied when she was ill with pneumonia. The nuns (it was a convent school) some time later brought in a priest to carry out what would now be called ‘deliverance ministry’ for this particular room.

        It’s thanks to my mum that I have an interest in astrology too.

        • What a wonderful story about the ghosts of the War Cabinet rooms. Plus the cosmic soup pouring through the boundaries….as it tends to do, given half a chance. Unless my birth time is wrong (unlikely) I have no 8th house planets. I do have Uranus close to the ascendant, and Pluto conjunct Mercury though, and since early childhood I have seen quite a few ghosts, often quite ordinary looking people, with no personal connection to me. Mostly, they are not at all alarming or sinister. Like Larry, I’ve also seen some animal ghosts. It’s a shame this phenomenon has become difficult to discuss publicly, being rationalised or sensationalised in the media with little balance or open minded curiosity. I’ve personally heard stories of incidents from people working in pubs, the underground, hospitals and so on. None of them sought any kind of attention, just wanted to tell someone. It’s a shame this is now a somewhat taboo subject. I hope Pluto in Aquarius brings a less stifled approach to such things. They may have something to teach us about the nature of physics, as well as the nature of life itself.

  18. Thank you, Marjorie! May I ask what astrology says about former believers in “magicians” when the scales fall from their eyes?

    I’m thinking of Trump supporters who still “believe” even after their con-man-in-chief has been revealed to be a terrible businessman rather than a genius tycoon, a cheat who’s paid less taxes then his followers despite his lavish lifestyle and a Covidiot who got himself infected and seems to want to infect others. Will it take criminal indictments against Trump in 2021 for money laundering, tax evasion and/or sexual assault to finally wake these “believers” up? (Although an American friend of mine says despairingly, “Never underestimate the stupidity of the American electorate”…)

    I’m also thinking of post-World War II Germans being stuck with numbing defeat and a very painful having-to-come-to-terms-with-the-past. Which is why, Jo, whatever turmoil lies ahead for Germany, it’s unlikely that a majority of Germans will ever go down that leader-as-messiah route again. Been there, done that — and look what happened. Germany is also dotted with memorials, buildings (schools, a university, a youth hostel, a military headquarters), streets, boats etc. named after heroic anti-Nazis. I have the impression that a quarter of German females born since the early ’80s are named Sophie after Sophie Scholl. Germans who admire these people are unlikely to let fascist thugs take over again.

    • Yes, I forgot to mention in my reply to Marjorie below that the 4th H tr Pluto coming up might catalyze sentiments for the ‘Fatherland’ type of thinking BUT that might not fully bloom because don’t they also teach this part of their dark history in schools fully and completely to understand never to go back to such a beginning? There is a dep importance to educate themselves about this part of history. You will still get your usual far-right, pasty-faced thugs parading around like peacocks in public and ramming their nazi pride in people’s faces and then going home and slapping their missus’ in private. But will it EVER take off to the extent it once did? The conspiracy theories that are spreading like cancer across the world right now is concerning because it is deeply anti-semitic and could pose a problem but hopefully they will get over this barrier?

    • “A new [] truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents and making them see the light but rather because its opponents eventually die, a new generation grows up that is familiar with it.”
      Max Planck, physicist.
      On the whole people regrettably don’t change their minds, certainly not the true-believers.

    • I think I read in one of Liz Greene’s books- there were questions regarding German soldiers alliance to Hitler, and why they could not see that he was a lunatic. Her explanation was that, there is an element of conscious or subconscious collusion. Hitler had deluded his nation with notions of supremacy, which was a shared power dynamic. The German people were not mere puppets, and although I know they will never repeat this history, as Marjorie has said- they are leaders in world EU economy, and very respected in other fields. Ironically, they did not need Hitler’s slaughter house war to become the benign world power they are today.

  19. I have got no planets in the 8th yet I am really into reading about the occult and what exists outside mundane reality. My Pluto is in Libra in the 2nd House. My brother has a 6-planet stellium which includes Pluto in his Libra/Scorpio 8th house. He is also into the occult and can be wreckless about setting borders. He has been on a few paranormal stakeouts and seems to court whatever is there which ends up in his house for a month or two at a time which can be frightening. He seems to not care about attracting it towards him, but freaks out when it arrives! I don’t understand that mentality at all.

    Also, I wonder if such a heavy 8th house including that Scorpio Pluto would incline one’s emotions towards an almost nihilistic outlook including leaning towards a dystopian future or if it is an ‘angry man’ thing? He definitely ticks all those boxes. I’ve read that men are disproportionately more likely to be nihilistic than women, but that could be to do with how they deal with emotions and lack emotional support networks, though my brother doesn’t really have that problem or articulating his emotions. He’s quite Libran in that respect, fortunately. But he does attract his fair share of drama when it comes to partners. Its exhausting trying to keep up with his bloody love life!

  20. Thanks Marjorie, much to think about here. Regarding Winston Churchill and his 8th house Pluto – he became a member of the Ancient Order of Druids in 1908, there’s a group photo of the young WC in full rig. How much he was involved I don’t know. There are also stories, told to my Mum by a guide, of the ghosts of Salisbury Hall in Hertfordshire, which was his mother’s home for a time. The house is no longer open for visitors, however it was said to be haunted by Nell Gwynn (who had lived there in a cottage in the grounds), and a cavalier. Winston Churchill said he had seen Nell Gwynn’s ghost. He did have that creative side, with his painting and writing, and lived at a time when people were not so harshly judged for saying they had seen a ghost.

    An earlier example is Abraham Lincoln, who spoke about his paranormal experiences. He had a Pisces Pluto conjunct Mercury, trine Scorpio Uranus and Nodes. Lincoln’s own ghost is said to haunt the White House. Harry S. Truman and Churchill also experienced paranormal events in the White House. Truman had Sun conjunct Neptune trine Uranus, plus Pluto conjunct Mercury in the 8th.

  21. In the Vedic astrology system, the eighth House is the House of death and destruction (and that was before the discovery of Pluto and his being given domain over the 8th House & Scorpio).

    I have Venus in my eighth House and according to a Vedic astrologer, that suggests that I will have a beautiful death or death in a beautiful location. But that can mean a myriad things; ranging from dying peacefully at home with family around to dying from a drug overdose (on a high) to committing suicide in a beauty spot.

    That was one of the most broad, sweeping predictions I had got.

  22. Wait, you think there might be a repeat of someone like Hitler plugging into those deep, primal energies of Germany and repeating such horrific monstrosities in 2022?

    • No – tr Pluto in the Germany 4th not 10th this time round – but something will be stirring the serpent in Pluto’s cavern for sure.

      • Okay, thanks 🙂 I just had tr Pluto finish my 4th recently, and it was the usual dredging up of family and mother issues that have resolved somewhat, but it was heavy. I also lost a mother figure when Pluto was opposing my natal Cancer moon as it neared the end of the 4th. I’m hoping the 5th H transit will be easier.

        Makes me think more National sentiments rising in Germany with perhaps a danger of going back to that ‘Fatherland’ ideology? Also, I think possibly the EU and its potential collapse will have big repercussions on Germany over the next few years, as it places pressure on them to decide which direction they will go and define who they are? I think the aftermath of a post-Covid world is going to close a lot of borders around the world, causing them to be much more self-sufficient. All of us, in fact. I hope it’s a good outcome for them, anyway. They did a damn good job reinventing themselves around after that hellish interlude during the 1930s and 40s!

  23. I have Pluto in the 8th house conjunct the Moon on the cusp of the 9th. Both are square Saturn and Lilith in Scorpio. Pluto-Moon are the focal point of a yod and on the base of another. They are inconjunct Mars and a Mercury-Chiron conjunction. Mercury-Chiron are exactly square Neptune. Finally, a tight Jupiter-Uranus conjunction also in the 8th squares Neptune and opposes my Sun.

    All my life, I have been attracted to the occult but a small, still voice said beware. I was struck by a saying attributed to the Buddha, that spiritual evolution will bring spontaneous psychic experiences but they should be not be given importance because they could block your path. I am certainly very much aware of the fate of my grandparents and feel spontaneously in contact with them and other spirits. I find Hitler’s voice very upsetting and cannot listen to it at all. I have had unwanted psychic experiences, such as in 1986 during a visit to NYC when I refused to visit the World Trade Center because the twin towers were not supposed to be there. I see life and the fate of the world as a struggle between competing psychic and spiritual forces but in the end our perception of reality is but a dream seen through a glass darkly. I foresee a coming war with China as a renewed struggle between good and evil. I try to be serene, loving and aware.

  24. If I change my house system to be Alcabitius,Placidus, Koch I get Pluto in the 8th close to NN but WSH puts them in the 9th…so do I get to tap into this archaic energy or not?

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