Saturn weighs heavily in two headline crime stories. Jeremy Bamber in prison for shooting five members of his family since 1985 could be freed after allegations of police malpractice. He says the incident was a murder-suicide carried out by his sister, who suffered from paranoid schizophrenia. His girlfriend of the time said he had been planning the killings for more than a year. He has Sun, Saturn conjunct in Capricorn in his 8th.
The other is William Calley, the only US soldier convicted for the My Lai massacre in Vietnam, a Sun Saturn in Gemini who has just died.
Bamber, born 13 January 1961 2.09 pm London, had a packed, intense and deeply secretive 8th house with Mercury, Sun, Saturn and Jupiter there. He also had a living-in-his-own-bubble Water Grand Trine of Mars in Cancer in his 1st trine a charming 10th house Venus in Pisces trine Neptune in Scorpio, formed into a Kite by Venus opposition Pluto North Node in his 4th – making controlling Pluto the driving planet, magnifying his tendency to live in his own reality and be compelled to control his domestic and family environment. More so since his Venus opposition Pluto squared onto an excitable Sagittarius Moon. He also had unsettled Uranus in his family 4th inconjunct his Sun, Saturn, Mercury in Capricorn.
When the shooting occurred his Solar Arc Neptune was conjunct his Moon, his SA Mars was just past the opposition to his 8th house Mercury and tr Pluto was trine his Mars – emotionally undermining, angry, aggravated for a shattering event, whether instigated by him or not.
Other family member details in Skyscript discussion. See https://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=9644
William Calley, 8 Jun 1943 6.12pm Miami, Florida, became the public face and only scapegoat for a Vietnam War atrocity, in which American troops killed hundreds of unarmed South Vietnamese men, women and children and gang raped some. Initially it was covered up and only after Seymour Hersh, the journalist exposed the details was a court martial held. Calley had an uninspiring background and became a junior officer with minimal vetting. His company sustained heavy losses in the early months of 1968, losing men to sniper fire, land mines and booby traps. Under orders to flush out Viet Cong, he and his men destroyed a village, searching for guerrillas and sympathizers. They shot and bayoneted women, children and elderly men. An Army investigation later concluded that 347 men, women and children had been killed. A Vietnamese estimate placed the death toll at 504.
The WP writes: “Calley polarized Americans who variously deemed him a war criminal or a scapegoat, a mass murderer or an inexperienced officer made to take the fall for the actions of his superiors. Defenders argued that he had been forced into a brutal conflict with an often invisible enemy, then blamed for the horrors of the war.” He was convicted of murdering at least 22 noncombatants and sentenced to life at hard labor. His life sentence was reduced to 20 years, then 10 years. Ultimately he served three years, most of it under house arrest, and disappeared into obscurity thereafter.
He was a Sun Saturn in Gemini on the cusp of the 8th sextile North Node, Moon, Chiron in Leo. His Mars in pro-active Aries was in a can-be-ruthless trine to an intensely emotional Pluto Venus in Leo. His Neptune was in final degree Virgo. When the My Lai massacre occurred on 16 March 1968, tr Uranus was conjunct his Neptune and his SA Uranus square his Neptune – so his nerves would be shredded and his judgement awry.
His Solar Arc Saturn was exactly square his Mars, triggering his ruthless streak, with tr Saturn just over the conjunction to his Mars – both of which point to a high-risk and volatile phase of his life. And notably tr Jupiter was conjunct his Midheaven and his SA Pluto sending his confidence and desire for power into overdrive.
No great conclusions except that a strong Saturn is supposed to bring benefits in the latter stages of life which does not seem to have happened.
Guilt always clings to Saturn – retribution for wrongs committed. There is a Saturnine rule about sticking to the straight and narrow since transgressions will be found out – Saturn ruling laws and ethics in society.
Sun Saturn suggests a father who dumps guilt on his son because of his own failings. So the son is hyper-sensitive to any suggestion of not coming up to expectations. And with an 8th house Sun that is compounded by intergenerational pressures.
Feeling guilty does not prove any wrong doing but it may be has a tendency to attract situations where accusations will be made, accurate or not. Which in both Bamber and Calley may have been compounded by having Chiron conjunct their respective Midheavens – which emphasizes their sense of failure in not coming up to parental expectations. Calley was swayed by his superiors which does not exonerate him but he may have been more suggestible than most. Bamber who knows?
NB. All militaries have had their shameful episodes- Brits in Kenya, India and elsewhere. The French in Algeria. Germany, Belgium etc etc. But My Lai did, like Abu Ghraib, undermine the American tendency to project a holier-than-though image.
Add On: The My Lai massacre occurred on 16 March 1968 near Quang-Ngai, Vietnam, when tr Pluto was exactly square the USA Mars and tr Saturn in Aries was square the US Sun. A sobering moment.
Hugh Clowers Thompson was an army aviator who went in with colleagues and stopped the massacre, rescuing some who were left alive, and was initially given a medal but then vilified when he blew the army cover up and tried to get the truth into the open. He was eventually recognized by Bill Clinton with the Soldier’s Medal in 1998. He suffered PTSD and alcoholism in later years.
Born 15 April 1943 in Atlanta, Georgia, he was a Sun Aries square Jupiter in Cancer and sextile Mars in uncompromising Aquarius; with a Fixed T Square of Chiron, North Node, maybe Moon in Leo opposition Mars square Venus in Taurus. With a pulled together, influential Pluto on the focal point of a Neptune trine Uranus Saturn. Very determined when he got going.
When he stumbled into the My Lai massacre his Solar Arc Pluto was opposition his Mars, with tr Jupiter conjunct his SA Pluto giving him the courage to stand up to authorities.
Captain Ernest Medina, 27 August 1936, whom Thompson saw shoot unarmed civilians, was eventually put on trial but cleared along with many others involved, leaving Calley the only one punished. Medina, a Sun Virgo, had a prominent Jupiter on the focal point of a T square and trine his Mars – he was unfairly lucky, where Calley with his strong Saturn became the fall guy.
Add On 2: The judge has lifted restriction on naming the Southport killer who is 17 year old Axel Muganwa Rudakubana, born 7 August 2006, Cardiff Wales. He has extraordinarily enough – in the way of coincidences – an exact Sun Saturn conjunction opposition Neptune.
ADD ON 3: Yet another Sun Saturn conjunction is preoccupying the tabloids as a wealthy footballer’s former mistress and mother of two of his children has been criticised in court for treating him like an “open-ended chequebook”.
Lauryn Goodman, 18 January 1991, in court to claim money for her children is revealed after her daughter’s birth to have demanded a £33,000 lump sum to install air conditioning in her Sussex residence, a new car worth £70,000 every four years, and a £31,200 astroturf football pitch since she hoped her daughter could become a Lioness. The judge criticised her for not having a “good track record of telling the truth”.
She shares a Sun Saturn in Capricorn conjunction with Jeremy Bamber though of a more recent vintage. Her Sun Saturn on Capricorn is trine a determined Mars in Taurus widely opposition Pluto.
Richard Burton, the actor, husband of Liz Taylor, 10 November 1925, was another Sun Saturn in his case in Scorpio which was in a Water Grand Trine to Uranus and Pluto, formed into a Kite by Pluto opposition Jupiter.
Plus a tight square from Pluto to the Nodes. Moon in Capricorn too. A difficult natal chart.
Just throwing this out there — I happen to come across Errol Flynn’s chart yesterday. He had Saturn in Aries rising in his chart. I guess it was a combination of great bone structure in the sign of the warrior, but I wouldn’t have expected it. Saturn can be so surprising.
Thank you for bringing it up – he has no fixed signs so the strong Saturn was somewhat useful as Marjorie said in a previous thread. Sean Connery is the same, Cardinal Saturn in Capricorn rising and no fixed planets.
Marjorie, the UK courts have taken the unusual step of releasing the name and DoB of the 17 year old Southport murder and attempted murder suspect, despite his juvenile status. This is both commendable and right in the circumstances given the senseless gravity of the crime. Born in the UK with a date of birth of 7 August 2006. That places him at Sun conjunct Saturn in Leo to the exact degree.
Crikey – that kid’s chart is incredibly difficult … fixed t-square, mars-uranus opposition, 3rd potential opposition from moon to Mercury-venus, tight quincunx from pluto to cancer planets – yod if you give it wide orbs to neptune in aqua. Only 1 earth planet for grounding, 1 air (neptune) plus saturn in leo, moon in cap, mercury in cancer
The funny thing about Saturn people is that for all their realism, they are often thoroughly unrealistic about their own strengths and weaknesses!
The US military’s obsession with body count statistics in the Vietnam War was one of the factors that fed into incidents such as My Lai. It was a bizarre attempt to introduce US business efficiency metrics into warfare that actually gave an incentive to soldiers to kill civilians to meet their quota of enemy corpses. No surprise this led to some horrific outcomes particularly when it took the brakes off people like Calley. Chiron is highlighted in the 16 March 1968 massacre chart sitting conjunct fixed star Scheat at 29 Pisces and opposing Uranus at 27 Virgo and trine Neptune at 26 Scorpio.
Hugh: I recall watching the CBS Evening News reports in the 60’s. Body counts of the three combatants (US, ARVN, NVA) and collateral damage estimates. BBC has posted a short interview video segment with Seymour Hersh, who spoke about the bravery of the chopper pilot; who threatened to shoot all the US troopers with the chopper guns if they didn’t stop.
Not one of America’s better moments. Where was Cadet Bonespurs?
The terrible thing about My Lai was not that it was not an aberration but it was a direct consequence of US soldiers carrying out the orders of their superiors to basically raze the village to the ground and kill any Vietnamese they found there. Calley by all accounts was a poor officer and unpopular with his men so it is no surprise that he was singled out to take the blame even though the real responsibility for the orders to kill all the villagers lay with his superiors. There were lots of other killings of innocent civilians by US troops in what were euphemistically described as Free Fire Zones. This was particularly the case in the area covered by the 9th Division down in the Mekong Delta under General Julian Ewell. Most of these other atrocities never made the front pages of the newspapers and have subsequently largely been forgotten leaving Calley as the only person convicted for taking part in such an event.
Thank you.
Wanted to add that My Lai was as horrible as Bucha. No one wins.
yes avery good episode of the ken burns documentary on pbs deals with this exact topic, concoted cynically between westmoreland and mcnamara. they interviewed mcnamara’s son. it was revealing and tragic.
Hi, Marjorie, could you please do the astrology of Hugh Clowers Thompson Jr. (April 15, 1943 – January 6, 2006): the officer credited, along with Glenn Andreotta and Lawrence Colburn, with ending the My Lai massacre, and then having the moral courage to testify against the perpetrators? The original horror and the abuse he suffered for seeking justice tormented him until an early death. Now he’s remembered by the American military as a great hero.