The unveiling of the (aesthetically unexciting) Diana statue went off without a duel on the lawn between the Royal brothers to sighs of relief all round. Only for a documentary to pop up ‘Harry & William: What Went Wrong?’ on ITV tonight with the omnipresent Omid Scobie, the Harry & Meghan “Finding Freedom” biographer, stirring up more ripples by suggesting William’s aides had briefed against Harry, highlighting worries about his mental health.
There are two astro-influences of interest in the dynamic between the brothers. One:- On the relationship chart alongside friendly affection, fun-loving and chained-together by circumstances influences, is a composite Sun square Mars which is competitive and argumentative. I used to look at it in years gone by when they were seemingly getting along wondering quite how it played out. Robert Hand calls it “a difficult aspect for almost any relationship. Usually these energies surface as intense ego competition, disputes, disagreements and other forms of hostility.” For it to work he suggests the pair need a common goal.
The other is Harry’s Pluto sitting on William’s Midheaven and Jupiter which suggests that Harry wants control over William’s career and again it can easily turn into a struggle for supremacy. There could be a better outcome if both worked again towards a joint professional goal but the Pluto individual does have the inclination/ability to transform the Midheaven one’s reputation for good or ill.
There’s nothing to suggest a rapprochement anytime soon. Indeed their rift is almost at peak aggravation right now with tr Uranus opposition the composite Mars in their relationship chart and both tr Saturn and tr Uranus zig zagging backwards and forwards across the composite Sun and Mars until April 2022. And tr Pluto will exert significant pressure in a square to the composite Pluto and Saturn between 2022 and 2024.
Harry’s personal chart is not remotely happy over the next several years with a lacklustre, indecisive tr Neptune opposition his Virgo Sun and square his Solar Arc Midheaven in 2021/22. With more family upsets from June 2022 as tr Uranus moves across his IC into his 4th house beginning several years of domestic changes, emotional jolts and insights.
Family pressures and strains will continue to be at the forefront of his relationship with Meghan in 2022/2023 as tr Pluto opposes their composite Moon which is in a square to composite Saturn Pluto. If – heaven forfend – their entire families were wiped out they would have to grapple with what that dynamic is really all about at a personal level between them. The families act as a convenient dartboard to express their frustration. But take that away and they would be left – with themselves.
William is not at his peak effectiveness with tr Saturn moving through his First Quadrant for several years which can either be less ambitious/lower profile or a time of misjudgements and having to face up to unresolved psychological issues. But on the whole he’s in a better place than Harry.
In the background there may be that irksome argument which was always proffered by the supporters of Princess Margaret – that it was difficult for her always to walk behind her older sister – which excused everything. The reality is that 99.99% of the population are down some pecking order or other and live with it. Margaret had wealth, status, houses, entrée to any society she wanted and she could have pursued any number of activities had she chosen. Some restrictions obviously but compared to most people the opportunities open to her were unimaginable.
Add ON: More astro-nuggets from the Meghan Will synastry. Meg’s Mars in Cancer falls in Will’s 7th which suggests open enmity and a competitive chemistry (and that’s also the case with Harry so when their relationship flips it’ll get nasty.). Will’s ratchety, short-fused Saturn Mars falls on Meg’s IC and is conjunct her Moon so his abrasive approach would upset her plans for her family life and she would see him as a threat. Will’s Saturn in Meg’s 4th indicate that his professional interests clash with her domestic concerns and she’d find him unfeeling and unsympathetic.
The relationship chart has two key drawbacks for a harmonious combo. One is a marked composite Pluto Jupiter conjunction squaring the Sun Venus, so a double whammy of a struggle-for-the-upper-hand, oneupmanship energy – they’d be constantly trying to outdo each other. And there is also an explosive and impatient Moon Mars square Uranus, suggesting radically divergent agendas with no possibility of compromise on either side.
Meg’s rebellious 5th house Uranus also opposes Will’s Venus in Taurus which is on the focal point of a Yod so will be an especially sensitive point for him as she threatens to upset his emotional applecart. Indeed her Uranus falls in Harry’s 10th opposition his Taurus Moon, pulling him away from his family and changing the trajectory of his life/career. And now that I look, Meg’s maverick Uranus is also conjunct the Queen’s obsessively conscientious and dedicated Saturn Midheaven in Scorpio – so the Royals embody everything that cramps Meghan’s demands for an unrestrained lifestyle where she can go her own independent way.
Quite what Harry represents for her I can’t work out – but it’s not money and power so much as family life and children. His Venus, Pluto and Saturn fall in her 4th and his wayward, overly excitable Uranus and Mars in her 5th house of children and social fun. These are not ideal placings for a contented emotional life but in her muddled way it was what she was aiming at, trying to fill the gaps left by a dysfunctional childhood.
There’s no real sign of Meghan wanting to elbow in on William’s role as Harry does. She just dislikes her plans being interfered with by William and the Queen’s duty-first approach.
Meghan’s Mars (ruler of her MC) tightly opposes Harry’s Capricorn Ascendant (being situated on his Desc.) which could indicate that her ambitions, status and public profile are very much tied up with Harry’s persona…
The aspects between Harry’s chart and Prince George’s are even harsher than those between Harry and William.
Prince George’s Saturn is conj Harry’s Pluto. And Prince George’s Pluto is conj Harry’s ascendant, and George’s Mars-Jupiter conj (the signifier of monarchy) is opposite Harry’s ascendant.
So the monarch Harry has to worry about is George.
Speaking of signifiers of monarchy, the Queen has the Mars-Jup conj, George has it in an even tigher conj. Charles’ Mars and Jupiter are nine degrees apart, so out of orb and William doesn’t have it at all but instead has a Mars-Saturn conj. In addition, George’s Mars-Jup conj is conj William’s Sun and Moon. George also has his Sun opposite his Moon, indicating that he loses a parent?
This sounds crackers, but the astrology points to the throne going from the Queen to George, skipping Charles and William. If that’s the case, Harry can kiss goodbye to any titles for his children, and relations with the royal family will be cold as the Middletons will be in charge.
Meant to add: George’s Mars-Jup conj is in his eight house.
Not sure why everyone is so obsessed with killing off Royals. Philip lived to 100, the Queen Mother to 100+ and the Queen is going strong.
Some royals do indeed live a long time – the Queen Mother, the Duke of Edinburgh, the Queen.
Some die aged 56 (George VI). Some die aged 36 (Diana).
It’s random, based on their individual circumstances (or based on their charts!)
This made me look up George VI’s chart.
He didn’t have the Mars-Jup conj either.
He had Neptune-Pluto in the eighth. And the Queen’s Mars-Jup conj was sextile George VI’s Sun. Her Mars-Jup is also trine George VI’s Neptune in the eighth house.
Indeed. I’m sure they get the best possible medical treatment available – no waiting for a GP appointment. And, of course, the food parcels from LA are tasted by the servants before those in-line are allowed to eat them 😉
Think there may be misunderstanding about William’s chart. I’ve never heard it said he wouldn’t be king, only that he was born on the Saros that finishes in 2036. Bernadette Brady says starts that started in AD800-900ish at the same time as the English monarchy. And therefore he may be the last king. I think that’s possibility especially given we’ll be undergoing Pluto in Aqua over the next two decades.
Charles, on the hand, I can remember astrologers in the 80s saying he would never be king. It’s more of a possibility with him now being 72 than it seemed a few decades ago.
Well, I for one, hope William becomes king.
I think he would be wonderful.
My mother and uncle each have sun opposite moon and their parents lived to be 76 and 91. Uncle is Libra sun/ Aries moon and mother is Scorpio sun/Taurus moon.
My brother has sun opposite moon also.
And our folks are currently in their 80’s.
His dyad is Cancer sun/Cap moon -which has been a really tough road (bipolar). That Cap moon can be harsh.
Maybe sun opposite moon doesn’t portend death of parents that much…?
What I read once about this idea is that Charles will ascend to the throne because he has a wide, if weak, Mars Jupiter conjunction which was interpreted as ascending to the throne in old age for a short period of time. The concern is William – he does not have the signifier of monarchy in his chart (the Mars Jupiter conjunction) but rather he has an ominous Mars Saturn conjunction which led the writer to question whether William will ascend to the throne. (George will be king according to this idea because he has the Mars Jupiter conjunction).
“Meg’s maverick Uranus is also conjunct the Queen’s obsessively conscientious and dedicated Saturn Midheaven in Scorpio – so the Royals embody everything that cramps Meghan’s demands for an unrestrained lifestyle where she can go her own independent way.”
Meg’s Uranus in Scorpio does seem destined to create Uranian disruption in the Royal Family. It aligns with Black Moon Lilith at 24 Scorpio, exactly square the Queen’s Lilith at 24 Leo, and her Neptune at 22 Leo – adding another twist to Meg’s role in the family. There’s a kind of shifting glamour there I feel, in both the modern sense of the word and the older meaning of “glamour” as a sort of magic spell.
Meg’s Scorpio Uranus and Lilith also conjunct Prince Charles’ Sun at 22 Scorpio, and his Chiron at 28 Scorpio. Ouch! It could be worth watching what happens around the November lunar eclipse at 27 Taurus, and the May, 2022 one at 25 Scorpio.
And just as an historical aside, Harry’s red hair and height may come from Diana. Her 11 x great grandmother was Mary, Queen of Scots – a very tall, red-gold haired woman. Diana was also descended (illegitimately) from King Charles II. There’s a long and winding royal saga here, written somewhere in the genes.
With regards to “Meg’s maverick Uranus is also conjunct the Queen’s obsessively conscientious and dedicated Saturn Midheaven in Scorpio”
Worth noting that MM was born the week after Charles and Diana married. Diana becoming part of the family was the first upsetting of the apple cart!
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Elsewhere someone mentioned Harry’s Pluto being in the 9th. I happened to read last night that this can result in the person being transformed from living in a foreign country !
Thank you Gnarly Dude for the reminder that these issues actually pre-date the brothers’ births, let alone their marriages.
The Queen is conscientious and she can afford to be as she was allowed to marry someone she was actually in love with and not punished for it, unlike her uncle. If she and presumably her consort had allowed Charles the same courtesy of marrying for love then life would be different for the Windsors today. For all the talk of royal adaptability to the times they have actually been quite stubborn around this sort of thing. And tone deaf as well – the Queen radically misjudged the public mood around her cool and distancing
approach to Diana’s death. She is unlikely to make the same mistake again. But Charles? We will see.
Well Diana said to Harry, you are your brother’s support person. Please support him in this role….All I will say.
Didin’t she also say he could do whatever he liked because he would not be king?
Since this thing began it has become obvious to me that far from being selfish: Prince William along with his wife have acted as the support mechanism that Harry needed. Because without them he would have become the loose cannon that has, unfortunately been encouraged by Meghan. It was him after all that encouraged his brother to seek therapy. Hardly the act of a selfish person. I am sure that all three charts will confirm this.
I hope in time that Harry will step from behind his self-imposed blinkers and see the world realistically rather than “authentically”.
What I keep wondering is why the Queen can’t just shut those two down. If they think they have dark enough material to blackmail, let them blackmail and do their worst. The Monarchy will almost certainly take a hit but endure. What that strategy will do to Harry and Meghan’s “brand” will be far, far more destructive. Edward VIII and Wallis were nightmares but were dealt with; H&M are so much farther down the pecking line they’re hardly relevant. And contrary to what their PR company keeps churning out, Americans do not think well of them. In 10 years’ time, Meghan will be 50 (which is 80 in Hollywood years) and Harry will still be homeless-looking and confused. It’s sad and difficult to understand why HM doesn’t take the hard steps and shut them down once and for all…for their own good as well as the Family’s.
It may be connected with Andrew, her favourite. Maybe she wants to spare him pain, prison, etc?
Pressing down hard on H and M is risking a battle the Queen does not want. Indeed so much that’s going on tends to distract from Andrew’s involvement with Epstein and Maxwell. Maxwell is trying to wriggle free due to a technicality that applied in the Cosby case.
Dear Ms. Orr
Please look at P. William relationship with the middleton family? Will Kate & Will have 4th child? Kind regards.
Thanks Marjorie – sibling rivalry writ large, always rather sad and yet so common. I notice that the solar eclipse at 2 Scorpio in October, 2022 looks like an important one for both brothers. It aligns with Venus in Scorpio too. It will highlight William’s Jupiter and MC, and Harry’s Pluto. At that time, Uranus is at Harry’s IC, with Saturn squaring the IC/MC from Aquarius. A turning point maybe, or a crisis of direction and life goals for both of them?
I think the truth is that the brothers love each other – their rocks ARE the other – because they had to cope with their mother’s death – hideous, especially in the limelight, as children…. Slagging off William does no good – he has stability in his wife and her family – Harry has zilch, only Meghan —- its worse than a nightmare. They are two quite straightforward people, not up to coping with the consequences and fallout…..Diana would weep that they cannot speak to each other, as they always have, but they are men and have to grow up.
“Harry wants to be king.” And Meghan (Leo) wants to be queen.
“The other is Harry’s Pluto sitting on William’s Midheaven and Jupiter which suggests that Harry wants control over William’s career and again it can easily turn into a struggle for supremacy.”
My interpretation of this Pluto-Jupiter conjunction between the brothers is that William’s Jupiter on Midheaven always wanted to expand his grip on his spare brother’s transformative Plutonian power to strengthen his own leadership. Harry was always meant to be William’s forever third wheel.
But Harry’s 9th house Plutonian power was destined to break away from his brother’s suffocating grip and to create his own path as a humanitarian leader on the world stage.
This is the essence of their natural rift. It will work peacefully if both brothers accept and respect they are destined to be on different paths.
Your interpretation makes a lot of sense! William reportedly has a selfish streak. It’s also understandable that he’d want Harry to carry some of the load of being king. Harry’s urge to be a humanitarian leader as opposed to the ribbon-cutting of royal duties — already demonstrated with his founding of the Invictus Games — is inherited from Diana.
From other comments and indicators, Meghan seems to think she’s an entitled Queen of something or deserves to be. Ie., her uber-social climbing tactic of inviting famous, glamorous people she didn’t even know to her wedding (like the Clooneys) and buying a California palace with 16 bathrooms. Except that Meghan’s bullying behaviour seems to be modelled on the Queen of Hearts’ “Off with their heads!” attitude which is the opposite of Queen Elizabeth’s ethic pledged when she was just 21: “I declare before you all that my whole life whether it be long or short shall be devoted to your service and the service of our great imperial family to which we all belong.”
I can’t see their marriage lasting when the money runs out. It will break Harry’s heart to be separated from his children, but Invictus may bring him back to the UK eventually and a second marriage. When Meghan loses her Duchess status, she’ll either fall into the category of notorious, misbehaving “celebrity” who has hissy fits when she’s not properly attended to or the obscurity of the “What Ever Happened To?”. If she has ambitions for politics, the Democrats won’t touch her with a ten foot pole. Just my hunches.
Harry Pluto maybe in the 9th House, yet it is also in Scorpio. It has been written that the first few degrees of a sign is the strongest. Pluto rules Scorpio and naturally has an 8th house feel for other people’s money. It is William’sJupiter , not Harry’s, therefore, surely it is Harry’s Pluto that will give Harry strength? I would read it as Pluto – Scorpio – Water in Harry’s 9th house attempting to drown out his brother’s power and sink him. Williams is quite religious and spiritually minded. Harry’s Jupiter is in Capricorn an earth Sign conjunct Neptune in Sagittarius. His Ascendent is in Capricorn, which Jupiter has a wide conjunction with. I think there is quite a hidden materialistic side to Harry. Jupiter is the largest planet in the Solar system, couple this with the Asc and you could have a desire for power. Saturn has a Lord of the Manor feel about it. William has the power. Harry’s Neptune lies behind Jupiter in the 12th. Neptune rules the 12th house. Harry has dabbled with drugs. Humanitarian is a dream with Harry, actions speak louder than words. Capricorn’s Saturn castrates. Perhaps Harry wants to castrate Williams power?
Someone put a post on the Times stating Harry looks like Henry VIII. The brothers Sun square Mars and Harry’s Pluto in Scorpio, will bring out his jealousy. All his angst is good old fashioned jealousy. Harry’s own Sun square Mars will bring our his anger towards his brother’s Sun sextile Mars which works with purpose and dedication and is controlled, where Harry is a hothead. The more I look at Harry, I understand why he is with Meghan, they both want to rule and be totally in charge. HenryVIII changed the church to get want he wanted, Harry’s move was for a new power base. Wrong timing will kill that off. Harry went away to recruit his army. Nothing changes in power struggles, modern Royals have their dark Machiavellian Prince. Perhaps Meghan is a partner in crime and not the instigator. They are jealous and want it all. The question is how far will Harry go to metaphorically kill off William? Harry wants to be King.
This is so well said. I agree but I wonder did he want that prior to meeting his narcissistic wife? Isn’t interfering with the line of succession (promulgating ideas of unfitness, rumors, slander) treason? If the wife is blackmailing the RF (the current gossip), really wish the RF would go public and front-face it.
And what about William’s children? If anything did happen to William, they are next in line.
I think Marjorie has already pointed out that neither Charles or William has the kingship star. Money is tight in the U.K. perhaps there is something in this, as Charles is in his 70’s anyway and a Coronation would seem unfitting and too expensive. I think Charles and William will share Kingship. As Harry is too much of a problem. Besides, I have a feeling something may happen to Harry in America – I am not stating it will – however, if it did, it would be too close for either of them to be King outright. A well place rest would fit in with George becoming King.
I think you are confusing the coronation with kingship.
When the Queen dies, Charles (if he is still alive) will become King immediately. The coronation is a symbolic event.
I can see your point that Charles, when he succeeds might choose not to be crowned, and might rely on William a lot. But Charles would be king until he dies, and William will be Duke of Cornwall and Cambridge, and possibly Prince of Wales.
When the Queen and Charles are both dead, William will be King.
Harry is now way down the order of succession. Nothing he does does (unless he opts out) will change that.
Yes I have confused them. Apologies. On a morphine derivative at the moment – a bit high and away with the fairies.
I love you Marjorie