The High Court judgement that Westminster must vote on whether the Government can trigger formal Article 50 notification of Brexit has put the cat amongst the pigeons. Though for all the yowling, it seems not unreasonable that in a parliamentary democracy, elected members should have their say and not be sidelined.
Theresa May does look very uptight at the moment with tr Saturn just off the square to her singleton Mars, now exactly square her intense Mercury/Pluto midpoint, then within a few days it will conjunct her Mars/Jupiter further dampening her enthusiasm. Tr Saturn then wends across a series of depressing squares to her Sun/Venus, Jupiter and her Sun/Pluto through this month into December.
It will go to a Supreme Court appeal which is likely to be December at the earliest.
She looks in full crisis mode next February with tr Pluto square her Sun/Neptune and tr Uranus square her Mars/Saturn – surrounded by confusion and finding that one deception or delusion is unravelling; and under great nervous pressure due to an unexpected shock. It needn’t all be down to Brexit negotiations. Her Term chart also looks seriously rattled at the same time.
Possibilities are an extended debate which would drag the uncertainty out further or an early election to give her a more workable majority. In either case she will have to reveal her Brexit plans which she has been noticeably reluctant to do to date – if they exist.
Hope she doesn’t call an early election, Marjorie. Referendums and elections have been dominating the political climate since 2014. Scottish Referendum 2014, General Election 2015, EU Referendum 2016, Party Leader elections throughout 2016, possibility of another General Election 2017 and we might as well have a 2nd Scottish Referendum in 2018 so that we have a political upheaval yearly.They are all preceded by canvassing , arguing and endless media coverage. Goodness knows where they find the time to actually run the country and all at a cost to the taxpayer of £250 million pounds which is, no doubt, small fry these days but I could think of better ways to spend a quarter of a billion pounds. It feels chaotic
Greta, Know what you mean. My heart sinks especially in these febrile times. Mob-hysteria takes over and it is not just unpleasant (and v expensive) – it’s all heat and less light. And it’s truly difficult to see what an election would solve. Especially now that Jeremy Corbyn is beginning to sound like the voice of sanity. I must say (being a selfish and to some extent idealistic internationalist Remainer) that immediately afterwards given the EU technocrats responses I began to warm to the idea of being out of the chaotic and arrogant EU. I just don’t think people have been given any idea of the cost or complexity of leaving. If it had been put in clearer terms – leave and you get less immigration but its going to cost in lower tax revenues, as the City of London shrinks (and therefore less funds for benefits & NHS); companies like Nissan and the rest of the car industry etc are going to have to be bribed to stay to keep up employment and that’ll cost billions, the price of food and other household necessities will soar with the plummeting pound etc etc. And it’ll take forever to negotiate new trade deals elsewhere. So OK in 10 or 15 years it might be viable, but did voters have any idea of what they were going to have to live through before they got there? I don’t think so.
No one seriously thinks now that Brexit won’t happen and maybe it is a brave new step to a better future, but there needs to be transparency. Theresa May’s frankly pathological secrecy hasn’t remotely helped. She’s going to have to come clean about what she sees as the end result and the costs thereof which would help pacify all but the wildest anti-Brexiteers.
And don’t get me started on the US electoral system. They need to tear up the rule book and start again. They’ll totter out of this obscenely expensive mess bruised and battered, probably be facing a stalemate government if Hillary gets in, and legal cases galore no matter which gets in. Then in the blink of an eye everyone’s eyes turn to 2020. And it all starts up again.
I thought the Fixed-term Parliaments Act would help us see ahead, hasn’t quite worked out has it? If anything, that was when the chaos started. Oh well, nice try Nick Clegg 🙂 It’s almost funny in hindsight that he also kicked off the first referendum, about electoral reform (AV).
Theresa May seems to be trying to use the same tactic of evasion and non-commitment that made her PM in the first place. She was always quite neutral on the EU until the Abu Qatada episode, wasn’t she? It would probably devastate her if we had all this economic risk without being able to get out of the ECHR, that’s where her heart is.
Hmmm, that could be an interesting request, Marjorie…what DOES the 2020 american presidential election hold for us?
Thanks!
Ask me again in 2018. Can’t bear the thought of what comes next never mind what lies ahead. 2020 election has the triple conjunction of Saturn Pluto Jupiter in Capricorn in place and heaven only knows what that will bring – and bouncing off the USA Mercury opposition Pluto, so v intense indeed.
Wow…
My God Tara I do believe you have offered a fine example of “pomposity, arrogance, definitely lacking in humility”.
Laughable if it weren’t so rude!
What an awful site this is to allow such arrogance.
Oh do get a grip. Everyone is in a perfectly foul temper at the moment and the initial comment wasn’t exactly calming. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and it does get back to the astrology eventually. Though you need to understand the context into which the astrology fits which is why comments are helpful in teasing out differing points of view.
Frankly the DMail and other papers’ slating of the judges was appalling and got everyone over heated. Not that I’m always in favour of M’ludship’s judgements but in this instance they didn’t really have much choice given what they were asked.
Yes please do get a grip. Astrology should not be used as an excuse to spout pomposity, arrogance and sheer lack of humility. I am not interested in your politics but I do expect professionalism. Sadly, that is clearly lacking on this site. No foul temper on my part just offence at the sheer arrogance shown. I wish you well but will no longer visit this site.
Tara -pointless continuing this arguement. You haven’t understood a word I said. People vote for a political party – not a Prime Minister! Did I mention Gove and Boris anywhere?? Elitists are elitists whoever they are. As for your final paragraph – says it all! Or rather – says it all about you and your own brand of elitism. I did not ask for your help by the way. I was simply commenting on the main headline on this site – wow! How dare
I ??????
I don’t think anyone has accused me of having my own brand of elitism before, thanks for the laugh Hattie 🙂 My final paragraph had no political opinion, rather pondering two charts and how the themes of Regulus may or may not show up with them. God knows what you thought it meant. I’m afraid that if you ask a question in a public place, you should be prepared for a response, where did I say that you aren’t allowed to comment? Have a good evening.
Oddly enough judges are very wary of getting dragged into political minefields which was why the two most senior insisted they sit on this one. And it’s a straightforward matter of law – an English Civil War was fought on the primacy of parliament.
From a letter in today’s Times: ‘Ministers are accountable to parliament and the courts for the way they use their public powers. They are fully entitled to seek to take the UK out of the EU but they are not entitled to act like medieval kings.’
Other countries have referendum and then blithely re-run them. I’m not sure why this one has become the immutable tablet of stone that the Fox/Davis screamers think – or indeed Theresa May. I really can’t work out what she’s doing or thinking of doing. She’s very slippery on her past record. Hedges her bets in all directions and then slides out from under.
I doubt Westminster would vote against it given the popular vote, though the Lords will probably kick up hell and there are some wise old birds in there.
It’s all Cameron’s fault – may he be cursed to eternity – no threshold e.g 55% or whatever with a turnout minimum as well, and a simple yes/no for an issue this complex and this important? People were consummately lied to on the run up by the Brexiters who made it sound so easy-peasy. A chunk would now not vote to leave. The pound is down 17% since June. The real cost effects haven’t really started to bite yet, but they will. And it’s the poor who will pay for what was a knee jerk Little Englander (with delusions of becoming a power house again) emotional knee-jerk vote.
There’s a very funny cartoon in today’s Times of Theresa May finger wagging a bewigged judge saying: “The British People want British Parliamentary sovereignty and British law applied by British judges in British courts – BUT NOT YET!”
Everywhere you look there’s a nasty sink hole politically.
Thanks Marjorie, totally agree especially about Cameron, probably our worst ever PM. Yes, I suppose this could have set a precedent of a PM or political party choosing to bypass parliament and instead phrasing things in populist terms for a referendum whenever it suited them. It’s quite chilling when you think about it.
Tara – I believe in democracy. The court decision yesterday was nothing to do with ‘selecting the right experts to look into these things on our behalf.’ Parliament has already acted on our behalf by voting to go ahead with the referendum. It will now decide whether or not to trigger article 50. (Unless the government wins their appeal which I think is unlikely) After graciously allowing the public the referendum, they could now vote not to trigger article 50 (it is quite possible) despite the referendum result. If that isn’t sidelining the people and treating them with little regard then I don’t know what is. I agree with you re. the mistrust etc. but is it any wonder?? Who knows if any of this is in our best interests or not. All I know is that it is not for one or two ‘elitists’ to skew the wishes of the voting public in the guise of ‘process’ rather than ‘politics’ Whatever went on during the referendum campaign (from all angles) the voters had their say and it is insulting for anyone to suggest that they were not capable of making their own decision. As mentioned I voted to remain but I will not accept that those who voted to leave are stupid halfwits who didn’t ‘understand’ what they were voting for.
Utterly offensive!
They didn’t decide to make Theresa May the Prime Minister though, did they? I think they should be more offended by that (or you on their behalf, as you’ve decided). Aren’t Boris and Gove elitists too? They didn’t allow the referendum through any good grace towards us, they pushed it to save their own party. If you can’t see the irony and flaws in all this, then I’m afraid I can’t help you. Power always needs regulation, no matter who wields it.
Which thankfully brings me back to astrology, as I have been thinking about this need for regulation, balance over polarity and the fixed star Regulus. I think it’s interesting that it conjunct Trump’s ascendant and May’s Moon/Pluto. Any thoughts Marjorie?
Regulus is about high honour and success, though as ever carries with it the seeds of its own downfall. Bernadette Brady stresses that it is the need for revenge which is usually Regulus’s undoing. My impression of it is it brings pomposity, arrogance, definitely lacking in humility.
Thanks Marjorie. I didn’t realise Churchill and Thatcher had it conjunct the moon as well, with Churchill also having a Mars/Jupiter conjunction, which Regulus is said to have a flavour of. He certainly had military glory followed by a fall with a later election defeat. Thatcher sought glory through the Falklands War, her downfall coming later. Thankfully Regulus on the ascendant, as Trump has, seems more “showbizzy” than political, more likely to be a swaggering pop star or into reality TV.
Amazing! ‘It is not unreasonable that elected members should have their say and not be sidelined’ So it is very reasonable that the voting public i.e. THE PEOPLE are sidelined instead Marjorie?? Elected members had their say when they voted for a referendum and now the majority of the people (although not a large majority) have had their say. I say this as someone who voted to remain but I cannot understand how the people of this country whio voted to leave the EU can be so shamefully ignored. It’s a travesty and a disgrace. Democracy? What demoncracy???
There is a difference between Populism and Democracy, which do you believe in? Would it be OK to make major economic decisions like some sort of X-Factor final, Boaty Mc Boatface style? Or should we select the right experts to look into these things on our behalf? If you believe the sovereignty of parliament should not be undermined by the EU, do you also believe that it should also not be hijacked by lies and a political party trying to save it’s own skin? For all the turmoil in the US at the moment, at least they have a system of what they call “checks and balances”, aren’t they a democracy?
It is difficult at the moment because there is a deep mistrust of both the big business elite and the professional elite, people feel that politics on the right represents the former, with the left representing the latter. What came out in the referendum was a primal scream of frustration.
Its is all very Pluto in Capricorn, the times we live in. Something was due to die and be reborn, it was the Conservative party, but it was prevented with this referendum which projected it onto another institution (EU). Conversely, the Labour party has been nearly torn apart with a referendum of sorts (opening the leadership vote almost to the whole public). Bottom line, was it all really in our best interests?