Movie buffs are puzzled about why the billion-grossing movie Joker in 2019 has turned into a 2024 damp squib sequel for Joker: Folie a Deux. Not that the critics loved the earlier version about the murderous clown afflicted with mental illness with its potential to inspire acts of real-life violence and criticism of its brutal nihilism. This one appears to have cut across ‘the tastes of the core audience of Joker fanboys, including the embittered incel quotient whose preoccupations it channelled’ and ended up pleasing no one.
This one may lose $200 million though star Joaquin Phoenix and the director/producer Todd Philip both on $20 million and Lady Gaga on $12 million won’t go without.
Principal photography started on 10 December 2022 with a tricky Sagittarius Sun opposition Mars square Neptune which tr Saturn has been impacting negatively this year. Tr Neptune is also now conjunct the Jupiter, bringing disappointment to high hopes.
Todd Philip, the director, co-writer and producer, of both Jokers is also a Sun Sagittarius in his case square Pluto in final degree Virgo, both of which are catching the undermining tr Neptune hard aspects at the moment. He will get a lift over the coming year with his Solar Arc Pluto conjunct his Jupiter so it may not condemn his career for ever.
Joaquin Phoenix, 28 October 1974 Rio Colorado, Argentina, has a frustrating, infuriated, trapped tr Pluto square his Mars in Scorpio now and moving on to square his Venus and Sun in Scorpio over the next three years, so he will be under great pressure.
Lady Gaga, 28 March 1986 9.53am New York, has her Aries Sun and possibly Solar Arc Midheaven both in Aries catching the recent Solar Eclipse and the one next spring for a crisis of direction. And won’t appreciate tr Saturn Neptune square her Mars by mid 2025 but overall won’t be dismayed for too long.
None of which matters a jot except I wonder if it signals a shift in the culture where a mentally ill, murderous anti-hero no longer fits the mood of the moment.
Thanks Marjorie. Not so marvellous Marvel (franchise). I found what might be called a ‘birthday’ for The Joker character, when he first appeared in a Batman story. 25th April, 1940. What’s intriguing about this is how it connects with the chart for Principal Photography you’ve posted here. It also makes connections with the other charts here, so I think it might work.
Joker’s Mercury, 10 Aries, is conjunct PP’s 12 Aries Chiron – with the Solar Eclipses in Libra and Aries also there.
Joker’s Mars,15 Gemini (appropriate tricksy Mars!) is conjunct PP’s Mars.
Joker’s Neptune, 23 Virgo, opposes PP’s 22 Pisces Neptune. Joker’s BML at 25 Pisces is also relevant.
Joker’s Chiron, 15 Cancer, is conjunct PP’s 16 Cancer Moon
Joker’s Uranus, 21 Taurus, squares PP’s Saturn in Aquarius
Joker’s Pluto, 0 Leo, is conjunct PP’s BML for all manner of undercurrents and the current Pluto entry into Aquarius to consider.
I also think it’s interesting that the original Marvel Comics (aka Timely Comics) was creating its first comic in 1939, with a comic from August 31 1939 released that autumn – when the Second World War was beginning in Europe. The idea of ‘superheroes’ and ‘super-villains’ then carries that Saturn/Pluto square of the time, with the Nodes in August at 0 Scorpio/Taurus adding some pressure. Tr Pluto in Aquarius may upend/challenge the whole franchise or archetypal idea in some way.
Joaquin in some trouble now, as he also quit a different movie very close to start shooting, and could be sued for much money from producers. He will be less employed. Chiron return = no fun.
Audiences have grown very weary of the Marvel franchise and I think this film is just a symptom of its stagnation and decline. The founding chart for Marvel Studios (7 August 1996, Burbank Calif) has a Cardinal Grand Cross of Saturn 7 Aries conjunct South Node, Mars 8 Cancer, Chiron 11 and South Node 10 of Libra, so hit by this Autumn’s eclipse and Jupiter 8 Capricorn as well as a Yod on Venus at 0 Cancer with Uranus 2 Aqua and Pluto 0 Sagittarius making up the legs, so these early degrees in the Chart and the previously mentioned configurations are all to be challenged by transit Pluto in Aquarius and transit Saturn and Neptune in Aries in the near future along with its Saturn Return in Aries.
That should be North Node 10 Libra, so hit by October eclipse.
A millennial, who liked the 2019 Joker, told me he wasn’t interested in seeing this one because it’s a musical – and he didn’t think others would want to see it either.
Apparently realizing that this is an issue the director and Gaga have tried to deny or downplay the ‘musical’ label.
Easy to imagine the Sun Sagittarius director being emboldened with the first Joker success and a ‘great idea’ for a second movie. Maybe he should have run it by a focus group or first tried it on Broadway (ala Sweeney Todd).
I think the movie failed because it was sad and dark. People need inspiration and escapism right now. The other Joker movie had him emerge a hero. This movie had no uplifting message. The singing was novel but really not necessary in a Marvel movie to such an extent.
People do. Many of the hit movies made during the Great Depression were pure fantasy and escapism and the industry was innovative and groundbreaking during that period.
Producers and whatnot have played joker, spiderman, batman, fast and furious to Death!!!!
Joker 2 has a strong 24th Harmonic. Factor 24=2X2X2X3….so this
harmonic contains Harmonic 2, Joker, aka Arthur, and female, Lee.
Harmonis 3 adds charm, determination, verbal but can be cold, deceitful.
The plot is basically about a love relationship, Venus-Mars.
Neptune, film, is heavily aspected while Pluto gives obsession.
Arthur, Joker, suffers from identity disorder, or dual personality disorder.
https://ibb.co/jT0HcBP
Here is the rising star and star parans for Joker 2.
Antares rising…to be driven by passion & obsession.
Pollux rises as Jupiter culminates….loving the pursuit of the unusual idea
or mental addiction.
Antares culminates as Saturn rises…Black vs white. A life full of the
struggle with polarities.
Acumen on the IC as Jupiter is setting…A person who sets themselves at
risk in response to their social conscience.
Denebola on the IC as Moon rises….in interest in different lifestyles.
Al Rescha on the IC as Mercury rises….to take an idea from one world
and use them in another.
Thanks for this. I knew the film would tank.
Why did the original, purportedly stand-alone first film even need a sequel?
Why was the sequel a faux musical?
Why was Gaga cast as Harley Quinn? She’s not an especially intuitive actress.
Why not give her a standalone Harley reboot film if they wanted her so badly??
A lot of movie fans still do not understand it. It defies logic.
Poorly conceived and poorly told.
The original was so good,
a sequel was unnecessary.
Sheer greed was the motive.
It deserved to fail.