Can you sidestep fate? Is the course of events in our life predetermined? The imponderable question for astrologers.
In Greek mythology, the Moirai or Fates, were three sisters – the spinner, the allotter and the inevitable. Freewill was not an ancient concept. But the modern mind rejects a pre-ordained ‘destiny’ as a concept. In so far as it is considered at all, the general view is that individuals make their own choices.
Below is a collection of random thoughts.
Modern astrology takes an intermediate position. The birth chart, for reasons that are not understood, lays down the temperament, talents, family dynamics and the likely path that lies ahead. Following Carl Jung’s theory – that of which we are unconscious meets us on the outside as if it were fate – psychological astrology says that with more self-awareness, there is greater freedom of decision and the ability to direct events (or avoid troublesome ones.)
Though this raises other unanswerable questions. Can anyone become so enlightened they only live out the positive aspects of their chart, thereby ducking fate/negative events altogether? Nope. Some have inter-generational family issues that can take several lifetimes to work out.
Why are some individuals temperamentally inclined (or elbowed by events) into becoming more conscious, while others live a life stubbornly unaware that there are choices – and remain blown around by the celestial winds of their deeper unconscious.
Is it fair to blame people for attracting negative events? What could have been done differently?
Astrologers do have tools at their disposal to suss out in advance what is likely to happen within limits since predictions are about possibilities and not set in concrete.
As an example:
Years ago I was invited onto a cruise starting in Greece and heading for Turkey, Israel, Egypt. Since my (can-be-ominous) Pluto Midheaven line runs through Greece I was marginally anxious but on checking my transits nothing potentially dangerous flagged up. In the event we were in Egypt two days before the Luxor Massacre in the Valley of the Kings in Egypt which killed 62 tourists. The Tel Aviv visit was overshadowed by heavy security presence since it was the anniversary of Rabin’s death. I returned unscathed though blinking slightly. The risk was there but did not affect me directly. Had my transits indicated accidents and danger as well as the astrocartography I would probably not have gone.
But most people do not have the tools or the time – and anyway I have always insisted that astrology should not be the sole decision maker otherwise you end up a neurotic wreck double checking every minutiae.
A more tragic example is the actress Natasha Richardson, killed in March 2009 after falling when skiing in Canada and banging her head. She was born 11 May 1963 5pm London and had an 8th house Taurus Sun on the focal point of a T square to a can-be accident prone Mars in Leo opposition Saturn – with Saturn in her sporting 5th house. Relocated to Mont Tromblant, Quebec to where the accident happened her Mars opposition Saturn was brought into sharp relief, with Mars sitting on the Ascendant opposition Saturn on her Descendant in the 7th. That might have flagged up a worry especially since it was magnified up by a destructive tr Pluto square her Solar Arc Mars. Plus a jolting SA MC conjunct her Uranus and an explosive (though minor) tr Mars opposition her Uranus. So tricky place and tricky aspects proved calamitous.
Tragedies happen and it is ghoulish as well as distasteful to suggest they could have been avoided. And yet and yet, there are indicators.
The other approach is to say that a lifestyle has to be chosen to fit the chart. A high-pressure, high-risk chart needs to walk a path that lives out the individual’s temperament. Marie Colvin, the war correspondent, and Christine Lagarde, of the IMF/EU Central Bank, both with Mars Saturn in Scorpio square Pluto chose to live out those truly difficult energies. Admittedly Marie Colvin was assassinated in her late fifties in Syria. But had either of them attempted to stay a suburban housewife existence their lives would have been riven throughout with disputes and hostility.
Bruno Bettelheim, the child psychiatrist, worked at one point with a violent boy patient, who after a good deal of therapy did moderate his behaviour. As an adult he worked in the New York stock market. Bettelheim said he regretted that his former patient had chosen such a conflict-ridden job. Yet it suited his temperament. His Mars may have been turned in more constructive directions but it still existed at an elevated level. He was never going to turn into a nine-to-five automaton or a softie. He needed thrills, excitement and adrenaline-rushes.
Jung again: Freewill is the ability to choose to do what we must – puts it a different way. You are who you are. Accept it and get on with it.
Another personal story. When I left London to live in France in October 2001, it was an insane leap if I look back on it. Furniture, cats and me. Only later did I reflect it had happened on transiting Saturn in Gemini opposition Pluto = bleak, deprived, hardship, war – which was colliding with my Gemini Moon Uranus and squared my Virgo Sun. The astrology in advance would have seemed scary and deeply depressing. In the event it turned into a great and crazy adventure. Reflecting on the astrology what seems important to ask was what would have happened if I had stayed. Then I suspect the full discouraging weight of Saturn Pluto would have landed on me.
It indicates that the choices you make even with difficult influences can turn positive. Well I say choices but I am not sure everyone (most) would have made that ’choice’ and I can hardly claim credit for it. Having a super-charged Uranus was handed to me at birth with all its concomitant problems but it made the move possible.
Fate and freewill – a riddle within a riddle. Choices matter. But is freedom of choice (or self-awareness) a given to all temperaments, never mind to individuals born into certain environments? My experience would say not.
No great conclusions except that life ain’t fair. Some are luckier than others. Comments welcome.
“Relocated to Montreal to where the accident happened her Mars opposition Saturn was brought into sharp relief, with Mars sitting on the Ascendant opposition Saturn on her Descendant in the 7th. That might have flagged up a worry especially since it was magnified up by a destructive tr Pluto square her Solar Arc Mars. Plus a jolting SA MC conjunct her Uranus and an explosive (though minor) tr Mars opposition her Uranus. So tricky place and tricky aspects proved calamitous.”
I’m puzzled by your commentary concerning Natasha Richardson’s death, Marjorie. Natasha Richardson died at the ski resort at Mont-Tremblant, Quebec, a location which AstroSeek.com lists at 46N13 74W35, but you have located her death to the nearest major city, Montreal, which is located at 45N31 73W45. (To get these coordinates, I entered my birthday in AstroSeek’s Synastry Chart Calculator, but entered Mont-Tremblant and Montreal instead of my actual birthplace and exited the calculator upon obtaining the coordinate for each location.)
Would the differences in latitude and longitude between Mont-Tremblant and Montreal not affect any calculations pertaining to astrological circumstances at the time of Natasha Richardson’s accident and death?
By the way, alpine skiers should always wear helmets: Ms. Richardson was not wearing one at the time of her death.
https://horoscopes.astro-seek.com/synastry-chart-online-calculator
Does not make any difference. Have replaced the relocation chart.
The 10th House governs one’s fate…..Example: Richard Nixon, Pluto in 10th
My life has always been 3 steps forward and 2 steps back and either leaping to the side or being pushed, often against my wishes. In other words the best laid of my plans have either never come to fruition or have led down to different paths and thus different choices. And what you have now matters more than the past or the unknown future. So no point worrying about it.
I’m reading along and loving this particular post of Marjorie’s. Then, of course, I go to comments- love Hugh’s, Virgoflake’s, CallieS’, Jane’s (as usual above my comprehension:)) then…CATHY boom. Cathy, you nailed it. Mic drop!
I rather like the old Anglo Saxon concept of “wyrd” to describe how free will and fate intertwine. It is best translated as “that which becomes” or “that which happens”. It emphasised the interconnected nature of existence in which individual actions and decisions form part of a wider process that we might describe as destiny. In this imagining human free will plays a part in the final outcome just as in chaos theory small events can radically impact how major patterns unfold. For me it is a reminder that we can influence what happens in the future even if we can not dictate it.
As opposed to ‘kismet’ which is a fatalistic concept of destiny. From the Turkish, derived from the Arabic ‘qisma’, meaning “portion” or “lot”. Its illustrated beautifully in the ancient Mesopotamian tale: ‘The Appointment in Samara’.
‘There was a merchant in Bagdad who sent his servant to market to buy provisions and in a little while the servant came back, white and trembling, and said, Master, just now when I was in the marketplace I was jostled by a woman in the crowd and when I turned I saw it was Death that jostled me. She looked at me and made a threatening gesture, now, lend me your horse, and I will ride away from this city and avoid my fate. I will go to Samarra and there Death will not find me. The merchant lent him his horse, and the servant mounted it, and he dug his spurs in its flanks and as fast as the horse could gallop he went. Then the merchant went down to the marketplace and he saw me standing in the crowd and he came to me and said, Why did you make a threating getsture to my servant when you saw him this morning? That was not a threatening gesture, I said, it was only a start of surprise. I was astonished to see him in Bagdad, for I had an appointment with him tonight in Samarra.’
The speaker is death.
This made me laugh, laugh. Thank uoi
Great story, thanks for sharing!
I agree with free will. My brother and I had terrible, violent dysfunctional childhoods plus I have had some really tough times in my life. But I have learned from them and they have made me stronger, more determined, a survivor as well as lived an unconventional life – society’s conventions and rules be damned.
I have always lived my life as I see fit and find it easier to put all those hard memories in a place where they can’t hurt me or make me afraid whereas they have affected my brother in many ways throughout his life.
Only when Zohan Mamdani’s relocated chart from Uganda to Astoria, New York,
make sense for his prominent rise to Mayor. Read the article below to see how
the changes in his relocated chart strength his fate.
https://www.neptunecafe.com/nsc111025
Each of us is an actor, handed a script at birth. There is a beginning, middle and end; with plot points along the way, to move the action along. But no actor interprets a script in exactly same way. All that is certain, is the ending.
We can all only speak from our own experiences. I have found over the course of my life that I do better when I shut off my conscious side and just let things happen. I call it getting out of my way. It stops me digging myself in a deeper hole and allows whatever change is needed to happen. It’s not without pain (Saturn is often involved) but it works. I am not sure what you would call that – is it just following fate or is it free will in that I am being true to myself?
I think human are born with an instinct or gut feeling to protect ourselves. When something goes very wrong in life, and when I reflect there is always a small chance window where I could have made a different choice and not get into the mess. I like to believe I am born blessed (4 Sag planets + south node) that I don’t encounter the very horrible things in life. Yet with a natal Mars Opposite Pluto conjunct Saturn which has been deem brutal and also considered to have some character learn from young to survive, I think life has not been too bad on me. But on the other hand, I don’t really read generic horoscope nowadays to prevent some self fulfilling prophecy. But yet I think there is a psychology part to astrology to understand the seasons of life, trends and all. The past few years I am just using astrology to understand the Uranus transit 12th House and Conjunct Chiron setting off the whole rectangle (fire + air, Mars Pluto Saturn, Neptune, NN) in my chart. I am sure it sounds conflicting. But hope it help someone.
I just don’t know how it works and have an open mind about the warp and weft of our lives and how astrology reflects that. But as a teenager I did experience male violence and on the day I was subjected to the worst incident, there was an exact Mars/Saturn conjunction on my North Node and BML in my 12th house. This has always troubled me as it indicates a karmic moment.
May I ask, please, why are you troubled by a karmic moment?
Thanks Marjorie, the endless knot of fate and freewill is fascinating. I think it’s interesting that there were three Greek Fates, and that their power prevailed over both immortals and human beings. Even the gods and goddesses couldn’t avoid their whims and decisions – suggesting that the Greeks thought fate prevailed but there were three aspects to it, weaving in and out of our lives.
Sometimes I think our DNA is a kind of fate, linking us with our ancestors in so many ways. Even there, though, we can inherit a faulty gene that is never switched on, thus escaping some serious genetic illness. Or become very unwell with something nobody realised was in the family’s genetic inheritance. The discovery of the DNA spiral was announced in 1953, a Saturn conjunct Neptune in Libra year. Certainly I’d associate Saturn with fate of some kind. And since family patterns show up clearly in astrology, the patterns of DNA and those of the planets may perhaps be connected in some way?
I tend to think we have some choice in how we approach life, but developing and understanding ourselves is hard work and not everyone chooses to do that. External circumstances differ for individuals with the same birth chart too, depending on many factors. I’ve known two people with ‘my’ chart, with different birth times but the same planets. Each of us had the same passions, but expressed them through our work or leisure time in different ways – a hobby for one of us was a career for another. Oddly, despite differing birth times, we had all got divorced around the same time during a Pluto transit to Mars and Jupiter, and a Solar Eclipse on Venus.
Karma and dharma: what you’re given and what you do with it.
Perfect! Thank you, Cathy.
There are definitely better and worse ways to deal with anything coming your way, whether it’s an impulse or an outward event. That’s where experience, wisdom, choice and beliefs become the transformative elements.
I find it upsetting though that transits are so accurate in describing happenings because I don’t know where it comes from.
I think free will sits in the tiny decisions and choices we make in any given moment. It is very likely that everything already happened in the moment of the big bang but then every single version was also there at the same time. The choices we make determine which version we live and we can switch between different versions at different moments. Whenever you think of turning points in your life and wonder where you would be now had you made a different choice that is also an exploration of a reality you didn’t choose but which still exists somewhere. The film Sliding Doors explored this idea: had the protagonist taken the train home after being fired her life would have taken one direction but because she missed the train and arrived home later her life took an entirely different course. And that happens to all of us constantly. Everything everwhere all at once, but we make the selection, either consciously or unconsciously. We are here for the ride but we do have some influence over where the journey takes us. The astrology shows what tools and resources we bring with us and provides a hint of where we have come from. As DW suggests, a map which takes time to learn how to read it. Personally I don’t believe in Karma, I don’t think the universe cares whether we learn anything or not. It’s about the relationships, in my view, and how we respond to events. But it is very interesting to read other people’s take on all of this.
Few years ago, I saw a meme online which was a daughter retorting to her mother,”i m a survivor because of you.” It was my anger reflecting but then I had no idea it would come true in my life. This year on my birthday as I spoke to my.mother alone on phone when she was alone,after years and she said,”u r lucky u survived.” I was angry at her and had same words in response though at that point, I hadn’t told her about my past month with my aunt (her sister-in-law) but then slowly in past few months, I realised both my.mother and me were subjected to same torture and were actually leading same kind of life with same kind of individuals with heavy family Saturn -Mars conjunction who couldn’t accept me and my mom’s freedom loving Jupiter and Uranus temperaments.
For years,I blamed her for accepting abuse from her in-laws thus making her children being treated similar ways but now it seems, she had no choice in past era where marriage was must for any woman and living alone,working was looked down upon. She had to accept marriage to one she instantly disliked so her siblings future in marriage prospects weren’t hampered.
Same happened with her mother so it is lineage and similar destiny of my aunt who despite having a job,had to leave her newborn kid to be brought up by her mother and same for her daughter.
Apart from destiny, Time plays important role,what was considered wrong in past is praised today so a lot depends on the time period and ofcourse, courage to stand for consequences of ones decisions and have faith in Almighty.
Thank you Marjorie, you gave me lots to think about. Decades ago I did a seminar with someone who had travelled the world to learn from gurus and other wise people.
He suggested to us that when someone tries to take something from you give it to them freely so that by using your free will to remain active in your own life you remain in charge of it instead of have life happen to you.
I see this as a use of free will- choosing your response to a life experience even when it’s a bad one. I suppose this also is something we can all do with how we interpret and live out our horoscopes?
I’m one of those people that attracts negative events. What I started recently was start a positive gratitude journal. Change my thoughts, words I say, and what I feel.
Genes, play a part or being told by an angel or some higher power after a near death experience apart from “heaven is real”. I believe we live our destiny.
“No great conclusions except that life ain’t fair. Some are luckier than others.”
I agree (this) life isn’t fair, but perhaps over many life times, it is fair?
‘Luck’ may have been earned. And luck in this life may not guarantee the same in the next.
Of course i’m refering to Karma here and I know not everyone believes in that.
I also wonder if souls somehow elect to take birth in a particular body to ‘undo’ the knots of previous actions.
I quite strongly feel that my Nodal, Saturn and Chiron aspects to family and others in my life, stem from past life connections.
Yes, the Brahmin view is that creation came into being and dissolves again only to return maybe in a different form. Even the Creator seems stuck with His creation now! The planets are the Devas, the Gods who pull us about for their amusement so there seems little free will as such but being a bit conscious does mean one has some choice as you have explained, Marjorie. Once you see what they are up to, apparently they become helpful. Mars can bring anger but consciousness of this helps me to check the anger and dissolve it in activity perhaps. In my case, i now always seem to be an observer of others living out my transits both good and bad. Saturn pushing through Pisces has left me seeing my Pisces friends dying, sick, widowed while I seem more or less physically intact at 83. I do have a strong Jupiterean chart so look on him as my guardian angel! Basically we are pretty ignorant about the whole thing. But I like the ouspensky, Shankara view as the most logical.
A fascinating article and so intersting. our astrologer has a writing talent too.
Thank you
Many physicists take the position that free will does not exist because through cause and affect everything is predetermined at the time of the big bang – every action, every thought and every seemingly random event. Personally I think our lives only make sense if we have a certain amount of free will. Life is an endless series of ethical choices that give our lives some meaning and direction. Otherwise we would just be a part of a meaningless machine. Our charts provide with a kind of karmic road map that is not always easy to read.