Black Moon Lilith represents the wild feminine that does not want to be tamed and in mythology was cast out of paradise. It ‘represents the untame-able, feral spirit of those who’ve been exiled from dominant social structures. The outsiders, the outcasts, and the marginalized who flourish in our culture’s figurative underground. The people who refuse to sand down their sharper edges or submit to systems of supremacy — even when that defiance comes at a cost. Lilith is at home in the stories that have been silenced, the redacted parts of the text, and the facets of life that we suppress. Lilith is as ungovernable as the dirt, the shadows, and the wild Earth itself.’
What is confusing (!) is that Black Moon is not a planet and can mean several things. It is a symbolic, bodiless point in our skies.
It is best identified in a personal chart via the free calculator which gives four different placings.
https://astrostyle.com/cosmic-calculators/lilith-sign
It gives the Mean and the True Lilith which can be at different degrees as well as the Asteroid Lilith and Waldemath Dark Moon.
Marilyn Monroe is most often mentioned in relation to Lilith – 1 June 1926 9.30 am Los Angeles, California – though I am not sure she represents the anti-patriarchal streak associated with the concept.
Her True Lilith Black Moon is conjunct her Ascendant and the Asteroid Lilith is in her 10th. (That curious four pronged fork on my software).
Germaine Greer has her True Lilith in her 1st and Mean Lilith in her 12th also in Aquarius. But neither Betty Friedan or Gloria Steinem have much of note.
It all seems too confused to be a point (whichever) I would use as a guide. But all comments welcome.
My understanding of BML is that she will not submit to male authority. She was Adam’s first wife, and did not want to lie under him, so she left and flew away. Eve was his second wife.
I was also told when looking at BML, you also need to look at Selene – which is the white moon and is protection from on high, and they need to be considered together.
https://cafeastrology.com/black-moon-lilith-selena-sedna-ephemeris.html
https://www.mollymccord.online/blog/energies-and-expressions-of-black-moon-lilith-and-white-moon-selena
Fascinating! a little late to this covo but feel compelled to share. I have both mean and true BML conjunct my Mercury-Saturn conjunction with my Scorpio ASC. Queer man here, came out in highschool with a speech on gay liberation in speech class in 1970 or 71 in a small and very homophobic working class Sicilian New. I’ve always been an admirer of strong women who battled the patriarchy and strong women who were not constrained by social mores who were in charge of their sexual expression even though they got labeled cruely. In college, in my feminist studies I read a book, Women and Madness, and it opened my mind to how the repression of women leads to repressed rage which leads to depression and other mental illnesses. I’m all for the dismantling of patriarchal domination and I guess I have been all my life. Additionally, homeless and marginally sane folks seem to flock to me. I don’t necessarily give them money but I’ve almost always treated them respectfully. I avoid them if they are in the grips of a psychotic episode, otherwise I guess I feel a kind of bond with them because they are outcasts.
Black moon Lilith mean and true both conjunct moon in the 10th house of my tropical chart Waldemath is in the first house and asteroid Lilith is in Virgo in the fifth house. Would love to know how to channel the rage.
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, aka AOC, has Sun-BML in Libra opp Eris in Aries,
both square Jupiter-Chiron which opposes Saturn-Neptune, all in her
Cardinal Grand Cross.
I have Mean Lilith on my Asc., 5 degrees and True Lilith is conj. my Venus, one degree. I’ve always been an independent type. I didn’t think I’d ever marry, but I did and was in a long-term marriage for many years till he passed. He was an independent type, too, Uranus square Sun, etc. so it worked out well. Yes, I’ve always refused “to sand down my sharper edges” (I like that) or submit to “systems of supremacy.”
Nietzsche’s opposition of Gemini Mean BML with Moon in Sag is conj the
Nodal Axis with BML conj the South Node. Thus he was born with a Lilith
legacy. This opposition makes a T-square with a Venus-Chiron conjunction in
Virgo. All of the feminine indicators—Moon, Venus & BML—are in this
challenging T-square pattern, suggesting an active feminine side within himself, leading him to question personal, social and religious values.
Women played a key role in his life. When he ,was a young boy, his father
and brother died, leaving him in a household with his mother, grandmother,
two aunts, and a younger sister, with whom he had a complex reationship.
His adult relationships with women were difficult.
His earthy BML opposed his Scorpio Sun forming a T-square with his
Neptune. contributed to his genius and sensitivity, but also his sense of
being misunderstood, loosening his grip on reality, and leading to his
eventual psychotic breakdown.
Warning to all men who dishonor Lilith. John Babbitt’s wife sliced off half his
penis in a fit of revenge after he drunkenly raped her. Babbit’s True BML in
Aries is conj his Sun-Saturn in Aries. The night of the incident, June 23, 1993, Mean BML was on the degree of Babbitt’s Chiron in Pisces actiivating
the archetype of the Wounded Healer. In that year of 1993, the Uranus-Neptune conjunction 19-21 Cappy was square Babbitt’s True BML.
Hi Martha,
Thank you for these two fascinating posts re: BML, they were both very insightful in helping me better understand the many complexities of BML’s placement in my own chart. She’s not to be trifled with 😉
Lilith plays an important role in my chart. It is in the 12th conjunct Saturn in Scorpio square my Moon-Pluto conjunction in Leo. It is currently activated by the exact opposition of transiting Uranus. I have always been comfortable with strong and authentic women, who exert power without social prominence. Their great influence in my life is hidden. This seems to intensify at this point.
I forgot to mention Lilith at 23 Scorpio in my 12th is in a water grand trine witha Jupiyer-Uranus conjunction at 25 Cancer in my 8th and Mars iat 27 Pisces in 3rd near IC conjunct transiting Neptune and NN.
My Sun is also almost exactly sextile Lilith. It is a comfortable easy-going relationship.
Thanks for this Marjorie, and for opening up a discussion here. Personally, I stick with ‘mean’ Lilith for BML, since it aligns with astronomy in locating the lunar apogee. True Lilith does not connect with astronomy. The Waldemath Dark Moon was a 19th century theory about the Moon having an invisible companion Moon – something that we can almost certainly discount now. I like an asteroid now and then (!), but generally don’t count asteroid Lilith either, unless it is found sending one of those coincidental messages the Cosmos seems to enjoy now and then.
The Lunar apogee is interesting, since the Moon is furthest from us here on Earth then. For me, that goes along with thoughts about how we can interpret retrograde planets, which are paradoxically closer to us when Rx. Quite a see-saw. If Lilith is imagined as a feminine archetype/goddess figure escaping Earth/convention/society at the apogee, or is an energy who’s been banished far from “polite society”, the apogee might make symbolic sense. What if the Moon just carried on moving further away? Disaster! So Lilith must be brought back again, even if she’s someone we’re embarrassed or afraid to acknowledge.
As for our current interpretation of Lilith, I feel we have a way to go. It certainly seems a sensitive point, and it’s meaning and manifestation can be “wild” in some way in the context of our society. The famous Burney relief is often named as Lilith, although it could easily be Ishtar or Inanna – all having ancient Mesopotamian roots. The winged figure has bird’s legs below the knee, stands on a pair of lions, and is flanked by two giant owls said to symbolise darkness, desolation, death and mystery. The lions, I believe, symbolise the Sun (they were once painted white) which Lilith seems to have conquered in the image – referencing an eclipse possibly? She was originally painted scarlet, which links her with Kali, and the idea of energy, power, and the blood of life itself.
Here in Western culture our female archetypal figures tend to play supporting or maternal roles. But historically, this wasn’t always the case. Goddesses weren’t always the Great Mother either, and a number presided over war, fate, and death, as well as life and love. Great, destructive rage can be attributed to some female deities and mythic figures too. I suspect our Lilith imaginings may also connect with the wild Maenads, twice-born Dionysus, and maybe even the winged Sirens with their beautiful voices and destructive powers. Much to ponder.
‘In the name of the Lord of salvations. Designated is this bowl for the sealing of the house of this Geyonai bar Mamai, that there flee from him the evil Lilith, in the name of “Yahweh El has scattered”…..Naked are you sent forth, nor are you clad, with your hair dishevelled and let fly behind your backs.’ ~ Incantation bowl from Persia.
‘ You are bound and sealed, all you demons and devils and Liliths, by that hard and strong, mighty and powerful bond with which are tied….The evil Lilith, who causes the hearts of men to go astray and appears in the dream of the night and in the vision of the day, who burns and casts down with nightmare, attacks and kills children, boys and girls— she is conquered and sealed away from the house and from the threshold of Bahram Gushnasp….by the talisman of Metatron…Vanquished are the black arts and mighty spells, vanquished the bewitching women, they, their witchery and their spells, their curses and their invocations, and kept away from the four walls of the house of BahramGushnasp…’ ~ Incantation bowl, Persia.
The Babylonian Lilith, depicted as a bat-winged, wrathful demoness, naked with long untamed black hair who comes to the beds of men at night in order to drain them of their vital fluids, who steals the life force of infants in their cribs who takes the lives of children seems to me to embody typical patriarchal fears of uncontrolled, uncontrollable female sexuality. These incantation bowls that were believed to ward off malignant female spirits were so popular in ancient Babylonia, their manufacture and use spread widely throughout the ancient world.
It has occurred to me that sleep paralysis could also explain the experience of the ‘night hag’ – there’s a very good documentary on this called ‘The Nightmare’ (2015) worth streaming online. Time wise, it takes 8 years and ten months for this point to travel the entire circuit of the Zodiac. Currently BML is in the final decan of Libra, but it will enter Scorpio in late March this year, just as Neptune ingresses into Aries, and will make a square with Pluto in Aquarius. It wouldn’t surprise me, given the current political climate if we see an upsurge in female anger, as women’s rights will inevitably be eroded under the regime.
I guess our understanding of this lunar point is still a work in progress. I am sure that future generations of astrologers will add to our understanding.
Thanks VF. Very interesting re the 8 years and 10 month cycle of BML. Reminded me of Venus, which has an 8 year cycle:
“When plotted geocentrically – from an Earth-centered perspective – there is a highly noticeable rhythm in the motion of Venus. After eight years, it returns to the same place in our sky on about the same date. This is known as the eight-year cycle of Venus, and stems from the fact that 13 Venusian orbits (13 x 224.8 days) very nearly equals eight Earth years. As a matter of fact, the cycle was known to, and of great interest to, ancient peoples such as the Maya. Today, many know it as the pentagram or petals of Venus.” EarthSky.org
Agree absolutely about fears of female sexuality – and perhaps female fertility too. Every woman certainly knows when she is pregnant and gives birth. Men do not know if they have fathered a baby in quite the same way at all. Indeed, modern DNA tests are revealing that many people have a biological father who is not the same man as the man they knew as Dad.
Yes, the movements of Venus are fascinating. Briefly, Google AI says: ‘when viewed from Earth over an eight-year period, the planet Venus appears to trace a pattern in the sky that resembles a pentagram, due to its orbital relationship with the Earth and Sun, where it completes roughly 13 orbits for every 8 Earth orbits, creating a repeating pattern of “loops” that form the five points of a pentagram.’
As you say, this was knowm to ancient societies. In fact Venus’s Pentagram makes an appearance in the 14th century, “Gawain and the Green Knight’ as a symbol of the Virgin Mary. emblazoned on the Knightly protagonist’s shield. In the Middle Ages, Venus’s Pentagram was Christianised to represent the 5 wounds of Christ, the 5 joys of Mary as well as the five knightly virtues: generosity, friendship, chastity, chivalry, and piety, essentially signifying his moral character and adherence to the chivalric code.
The mathematics and patterns of our cosmos are quite mind blowing.
VF and Jane-
What gripping insights you’ve both shared on Lilith’s energy! Thank you for offering up some deeper observations to ponder on all the ways she weaves her web 😉
My own takeaway based on the input of yourselves and what little research I’ve done as well is that she represents a combination of Uranus and Pluto energy: Uranus in that she demands equality and fairness and Pluto in that if she doesn’t receive what she believes is rightfully hers then she uses her sexuality to exact vengeance. In my own chart she appears in the 8th H in Cancer and is on the apex of a t-square with my 5th H Merc Venus CJ in Aries opp 11th H NN in Libra. A lot of righteous anger….
All in 7h with asc leo and all planets…society didn’t ostracise me ,I did myself…contrarily they always supported but having a narcisst family which chases me like rabid dogs…loneliness was only way to save myself and society from their constant rioting…
Well, that’s about my lilith and thus, it entities only those who r brave enough to shut down those dogs..
Sorry for the language but I couldn’t find another word …shadow doesn’t hurt
My black moon Lilith is in the 12th house in Cancer, conjunct the Ascendant and my Moon, which is opposite Saturn in the 6th. I live out the experience and feelings of rejection, of not being seen or cared for, and also, unfortunately, not allowing anyone to get close to me. I read once that this placement indicates a rejection of nurturing and motherhood, and therefore the person will meet that in life until they come to terms with these issues. I can definitely vouch for this, it’s a living thing for me. I find I can’t summon the growth that’s required to meet this placement.
Hi Marjorie,
Thank you for researching this. It offers a lot of fascinating insights that I wouldn’t have understood otherwise in relation to my own chart.
That said, can I ask you to expand on how BML’s positions in the Tradwives post is manifesting? If BML is so outspoken and anti-patriarchal, how does Estee Williams Pluto CJ BML support her Tradwife lifestyle? And the same for Hannah Neeleman’s anger issues (Venus opp BML) and Alena Pettitt (Pluto S Node opp BML)? Or are all these women’s BML placements showing us where they rebel or resist feminism? I’m a bit confused…
To be honest I am struggling. I don’t really work much with BML – and it may be the anti-patriarchal meaning attached to it is wrong. The Tradwife influencers are anyway not a good example of yer actual trad wife since they are out their raking in a mint.
Maybe as more comments come in with personal examples of how it works it’ll help. But having several different placings all under the Black Moon banner does not help.
OK, that’s fair. Thanks for your reply.
I think it ( the various Liliths) may be similar to Eris, the dwarf planet discovered in 2006?. Named after the goddess of discord in the Greek pantheon, with it’s flagrant disregard for playing the game and the resulting scapegoating and punishment for it.
In a way, Tradwives are behaving in an Eris/BML way, the expectations and stereotypes for women culturally in the West are not very trad wife at all, a younger generation giving the middle finger to the previous generations cultural norms maybe. I cannot see anything anti patriarchal about it though.
I have my mean lunar BML in Pisces (25°) conjunct my natal Mars (20°) and Sun (18°) in the second house. I am a gay artist, married to a man. I have deep passions that have both haunted, tormented and pleased me all of my life. My true BML is in Aries (7°) in my third house. Impacts of Lilith were powerful before I finally got to know her. I lusted sexually as a five year old boy and ever since. My art evokes sexually forbidden and political themes. My North Node is in Aries and I changed my name at 50 or so because I needed a change in my self-perception and identity. My initials used to be PG&E – Pacific Gas & Electric; I hated that identity. I am fulfilled after having spent the better part of my a life satiating my sexuality (always with consent). I have covered the gamut from living in a nude Hawaiian commune, exploring multi-partner sex and creating art that is both outsider and traditional. My only regret is getting too old to keep up the hunting for more.
I have True Lilith conjunct my Asc in Leo. Mean Lilith is conjunct the cusp of my 1st and 2nd house.
The main way it manifests for me is via a sexual taboo. It’s not problematic, illegal or exploitative – thank God.
It is more random and inconspicuous, but very, very strong. My romantic life (Leo) will most likely always revolve around it.
As you can imagine, I can relate directly to Lilith’s outcast, taboo, banished, untameable, feral themes.
That’s all I’m saying lol.
It all piles up in my 12th house with Leo on the cusp. Black Moon Lilith as well as the asteroid Lilith, my North Node, Uranus, Part of Fortune as well as asteroid Psyche all within 1 degree apart. I was what is called a ‘glass child’, with a sibling who I deeply loved, but who was challenging for my parents and likely on the autistic spectrum. So I was good at minimising my needs and escaping into the realms of imagination. And that’s what I feel when looking at all those Liliths in the 12th in Leo. I see a fairly hefty slice of my childhood spent in the sanctuary of my room with all my books, paints, drawings, resords, radio, music and dancing, but invisible to everyone else. And I also remember the inner rage, the pushed down feelings of being overlooked and wondering where on earth all my rage came from, and even whether I was entitled to that rage. Does everyone’s Lilith placement bring up such painful memories, I wonder?
I read your response to Pluto in 12h and this one…feel lot related to you. Had almost similar childhood…, there r those who have same unhealed wounds which won’t heal this lifetime as childhood doesn’t return
I was waiting for this. Thank you.
I suppose I can say I am a Lilith prototype: my Scoprio Moon is sandwiched between the mean and true Liliths less then one degree from both all in Scorpio. BML and Moon are on the cusp of the 7th house, true Lilith is in the 8th. (I use Placidus.) They gather only negative aspects from Leo Mars (less than 1 degree) and Mercury. It is intense, never budging, always ready to fight for good purposes, familiar with death and ability to deep inner transformation.
I suspect this constellation will cause my end too.
I am not everyone’s cup of tea, as I can rarely put make up on my words. The positives: strength, deep thinking, healing abilities and ready to take on any challenges. In intense emotional situations I have dreamt happenings that later came true. I nearly drowned in water twice, once because of pneumonia. I have done things that ethically were right, but legally not. As my Lilith is Moon connected, it is important to say, that I had the best mother, and we have a tragic story together.
It felt liberating writing all this down here.
Mean lilith in Scorpio at midpoint of Mars Pluto opposition end of April that you was talking about over weekend.
Re Marilyn, when did Pluto transit over her lilith?
Did that bring out her Marilyn persona.
??