The 12th like the 8th house is not well understood or well written about in traditional astrology – dismal pointers to prisons, hospitals, forced seclusion used to be the norm.
Below random thoughts from various posts over the years show a different picture.
Michael Gauquelin’s statistical research of successful people found that the 12th along with the 9th houses were the peak zones of intensity and not the 1st and 10th as tradition would assume. He proposed a new system of astrology which was to reverse the ordering of the houses so that the ‘First House’ actually starts at the Ascendant and then runs *clockwise* towards the Midheaven. And there’s a thought for you.
However Gauquelin only worked with ‘successful’ charts not the charts of ordinary people. Most astrologers know people who never really live out their 12th house planets or indeed their chart’s potential to the full. The 12th house temperament may be more to do with ‘faith’ than other placings – not just in a religious/spiritual belief but a faith in themselves. Where that faith is lacking then people just get lost in their Piscean/12th house inner world.
It can be very protective having an inner world to retreat to with 12th house planets but it can also lead to delusion or failure to reality check with the world outside. GW Bush with a Cancer Sun and Saturn in his 12th evidently said recently he didn’t listen to advice but only ever checked with his inner convictions or something along those lines. And Tony Blair, Sun Taurus in 12th, also sailed along on the same lines oblivious to anything the world had to reflect back to him. So you need to be in touch with your unconscious and be conscious of it, not driven by it compulsively.
I’ve always understand the 12th house Sun to be the unavailable father, perhaps through the pregnancy as well as after. GWB certainly had an inaccessible father and Blair’s was unwell for most of his childhood.
What the 12th house can do is lead to a tricky relationship with the ego. The ego being the outer defense and the vehicle through which the inner identity is lived out. Often 12th house Suns don’t get the ego satisfaction that some other placings might give. And a strong ego is the gift at least in part of a good role model father. Being too ego-centred and selfishly ambitious backfires on 12th house Suns.
Evidently Dane Rudhyar said that the twelfth house is the one house that represents not just the unconscious, but the essential person who does not take his identity from relationships or family, career or friends. One significant trait he thought of the persons born with Sun in the 12th is that they are not easily influenced by other people and will stay committed to their own convictions. If early childhood experiences have squashed the person’s self-confidence, they will withdraw inside themself and become introverted or shy.
That makes sense since it is thought that the 12th house does represent to some degree what happened during the mother’s pregnancy. A 12th house Sun suggests a personality formed early in utero, with less input from the mother so better able to stand on their own two feet outside conventional norms. The mark of a success is usually someone who stands out from the crowd and can think out of the box.
Planets in the 12th house often point to what was going on pre-natally. Understanding them can be very helpful since it often explains what is ‘known’ at a subliminal level but is not really conscious. Foetuses soak in a good deal more than is realised from the atmosphere around them.
There is now a growing field of study in pre-natal psychology. Anecdotal stories from the past – of musical mothers playing a tune to a foetus which in childhood can then play it sight unseen; as well as later consequences of more traumatic events in pregnancy – are now being back up by solid research evidence. Heavy stress on the mother during pregnancy leads to the womb being flooded by stress hormones and can lead to dyslexia, stammering, emotional dysfunction and in some cases mathematical genius since the emotional right side of the brain becomes damped down.
Since this in a sense is minus-astrology – i.e. before Day Zero – it does slightly presuppose the baby picks its moment of entry. Or perhaps the universe does in the case of caesareans etc. Gauquelin found that babies who had natural births often had an astrological connection with one or both parents’ charts. Ascendant of one on Moon or Sun of other or other variations.
Years ago I did research on some freeze embryo babies and at the point the embryos were frozen there did seem to be very heavy transits to midpoints involving Saturn and Pluto. That of course is plotting back on the original birth chart so again it is a minus calculation. Doesn’t make rational sense but there might be something in it.
An astro-example from a friend now sadly gone who had Moon Mars in Scorpio in her 12th. Her mother had been left on her own at the end of World War 11 and had walked while pregnant out of Stalinist east Europe into the west. So the mother’s pregnancy must have been fearful, trapped and at an underlying level angry at the circumstances in which she found herself.
It is not always easy to get information about the events/atmosphere around a mother’s pregnancy but is worth pursuing to understand 12th house planets.
It makes a difference which planets are in the 12th which does have an isolationist tendency. Roberto Assagioli who founded Psychosynthesis had a 12th house Pluto Neptune conjunction. He said: ‘We pay attention to the higher unconscious and to the development of the transpersonal self. We try to build an elevator which will allow a person access to every level of his personality. We want to open up the terrace where you can sunbathe or look at the stars’. His stated goal for therapy was “To live as well as possible, and to look at oneself with a smile.”
John Addey, the great astrologer whom chronic illness forced into a more contemplative life with a positive outcome for astrology had Mercury in the 12th conjunct Pluto in late 11th.
But even Sun and other inner planets in the 12th do have a need for inner space. Queen Victoria who had Mercury, Sun, Moon in the 12th withdrew into seclusion for years after her husband Albert’s death. Laurence Olivier, the actor, who was another Sun Mercury in the 12th had ‘stage fright’ for about a decade where he couldn’t force himself to appear.
Liz Greene talks about the need to come to terms with the unconscious when there are 12th house planets. Being comfortable with inner space is crucial. Too external a life will run into the buffers at some point.
Another astrologer once said to me that she thought 12th house planets did not support the ego in quite the same way as other house placings. So individuals with strong 12th houses never quite got the recognition/ego-boost for what they did out of their centre which is where the element of sacrifice comes in. Life has to be lived for the sake of doing what feels right whether or not there is glory attached to it.
‘Their ego feeds off the collective’ is one way of looking at a strong 12th house.
Everyone, even the healthiest psychologically has a False Self – it’s the face put on for the outside world, allowing for a compromise with inner feelings when necessary to tell a friend/the boss/mother-in-law they look great when they don’t. It oils the wheels of practical living.
But where early mothering is badly flawed and the child has to put its True Self firmly into an inner sealed box and play nice for mother, adapting to her needs – essentially putting on a performance for her – then the False Self takes on an undue and unhealthy significance. For some the False Self really is all there is since the inner connection to the True Self has been lost.
Most high achievers and showbiz types (politicians amongst them) are still looking for that approval which wasn’t there when they were young.
Not all 12th house Sun types will be at the extreme end but I’d imagine all of them have a problem being truly themselves when out in the world – so they need to retreat from time to time into seclusion – to stop performing for others and be themselves, i.e. connect to their True Self.
But where personalities have lost all connection to their inner True Self – and possibly even think it doesn’t exist then you get a hyper-active restlessness, a desperate drive to react to the demands of the external reality, while remaining uncomfortable with themselves.
It’s where others get a sense of ‘no one at home’ because what you see with a 12th house personality isn’t actually what’s there deep inside.
What is crucial for 12th house types, who tend to have more porous psychological boundaries than most, is that they get space and peace to themselves along the way, since they’ll easily get overwhelmed by having constant people around.
Where 12th house personalities have lost the connection to their inner Self, they develop a hyper-active restlessness, a desperate drive to react to the demands of the external reality, while remaining uncomfortable with themselves.
Tracy Marks is good on the 12th house. Your Secret Self: Illuminating the Mysteries of the Twelfth House
According to Wikipedia the ‘Mars effect’and now AI
‘Gauquelin’s work was accepted by the psychologist Hans Eysenck among others but later attempts to validate the data and replicate the effect have produced uneven results, chiefly owing to disagreements over the selection and analysis of the data set.’
Does anyone have any debunk of the debunk?
Otherwise we are working on flawed data.
Mars/Pisces/12th worked as a nurse in many institutional settings.
Thanks Virgoflake. You always gave me food for thought. Hope u r well. Sibling has Pluto Moon aspect which someone here mentioned before that there is a possibility for being bipolar. I have observed the manic and depressive episode and the out of control buying spree. And sibling’s moon is in 12th House conjunct my own moon. And I realised we both have a yod with chiron taurus being the apex for Pluto Lib sextile Neptune Sag. This is once again a generation aspect.
Last part I don’t understand why the 12th House eventually still point towards the mother. My venus in 12th has a tendency to hide things I bought/bf from the mother. My venus inconjunct my moon.
Thank you, Callie. Interesting about your sibling. Moon/Pluto may be connected with compulsions or obsessiveness. The 12th house may say something about the mother’s pregnancy. Both my sibling and I had a Scorpio Moon. His was in the 1st with his Scorpio Neptune in the 12th. My mother has Neptune in the 12th too. My sister a 12th house Scorpio Sun and Venus. These astrological crossovers and repetitions are interesting in families.
Wow Marjorie – I am blown away! I have a stellium in Virgo with Sun Mercury Venus and Pluto all in the 7H – my father was a Libra. My moon is in Libra with my NN and I lost my mum at the tender age of 11. I only have Chiron in the 12H not sure what that means. But I love the connection to my father which was deep. Thank you for another amazing post and your comments. Learning so much from you and your loyal readers. Off to explore what Chiron in 12 means.
O. K., take this with an extreme grain of salt, but as I was wading through Hamaker’s book on the 12th house, wanting to know about the prenatal experience, and I was just superficially going through it, I was looking for that Jupiter in the 12th, and I got this idea from some passages that it might have meant a mother who wanted to be a doctor, or maybe medical worker, but somehow that didn’t come through in life.
But maybe I am remembering badly and misinterpreting!!
I’d heard that having Jupiter in the 12th was like having a ” get out of jail card”. Mines 0 Capricorn with my ascendant at 5 Capricorn. Jipiter sextile my sun 3 Scorpio.
Terrific post, Marjorie. Thank you!
I have Venus in my 12th house. I have always cared for my personal space, as I need more time to recharge and face the world. There are no secrets here or sexual deviations of any kind, so I don’t think 12th-house Venus is necessarily negative. My Venus trines Saturn and Mercury, so it is well placed.
My daughter’s Moon is on the 12th, in her father’s sign, Capricorn. I did not have a difficult pregnancy, but I became a mother the day I turned 42, so my kid and I have the same Sun sign.
I read that 12th house placements can also mean long-distance travel. I am not sure about it, though, but I live far away from my home country, so perhaps there is some truth to that. I migrated when Jupiter was transiting my 12th house, too
Moon in Cancer in 12th house, conjunct Black Moon Lilith, both conjunct Ascendent, Opposition Saturn in Capricorn. I feel like the Moon in the 12th makes very it hard be aware of your own needs. I am a stranger to myself, amplified by having Neptune in the 4th house. I feel like I am not a real person; my selfhood has no credibility. Very hard to create a life without a sense of self.
I love solitude, I’m deeply reclusive, and find interacting with the outside world, and reality in general very difficult. Despite my solitary nature, I would love to have friends, but I have none at all. In fact I have always been very unpopular. I still struggle with this – emotionally, life has been crushing. My mother was dutiful and hardworking but as cold and sharp as knives towards me. My father fragile, unreliable, and violent.
Interestingly, when Pluto opposed my 12th house Moon, for about a year I had strange visitations from (I presume) my ancestors, and not in a good way. I come from generational trauma of crushed women, who raged against their imposed traditional roles. An incredibly disturbing time. On the plus side, I have artistic gifts and great depth and imagination.
I rarely reply to posts on here but as difficult as your life seems to have been, I enjoyed reading your reply. It was very compelling and you have a real gift for expression. I wish you well on your journey 🙂
Thank you Ava, that’s very kind of you!
So sorry, Crabby! I never know whether to say that, thinking that it might invoke in a person feelings of inadequacy or being pitied. I wish there were a magic wand I could wave and get you rid of these circumstances and make your social life fulfilling. I was thinking about mentioning some multi-day Vedic (maybe even Buddhist as well) mantra chanting program I bumped onto yesterda, but don’t know how that might be understood…
Thanks for your concern, El Aznar, that’s really touching! And as for mantra chanting, I have been on a long healing journey, but am still willing to try new things.
For a large part of my earlier life I was a walking wound. Nowadays, however, apart from my non-existent social life, I mostly appreciate and enjoy my life. I just wanted, for this 12th house topic, to illustrate one outcome of a 12th Cancer moon in hard aspect to planets like Saturn, though the rest of my chart also plays its part.
You could Google to see what it is about – the “program is called 21 Sacred Mantras for Transformation” by Mahakatha. I bumped into it the other day, and it seemed intriguing.
I’ve noticed that the Sun is sometimes in the house that represents the father’s Sun sign. My Libra Sun is in 6th and my dad was a Virgo. My grandson’s Virgo sun is in the 11th and his father is an Aquarius. My son’s Cancer Sun in 11th and husband is Aquarian. Nephew’s Scorpio Sun in 12th and his dad was a closeted gay man who acquired AIDS years ago and he was a Pisces. Wonder if anyone else has noticed this?
That’s not true..i have leo sun in 7h or 1h if v take as above with asc and if sun in own sign so 1h then too ,my dad isn’t virgo or scorpio sun sign or pisces but he is aries which is opposite to virgo next sign.
Even if we take my sun in 12h or 6h or 8h then too aries becomes opposite to libra which isnt the case because libra is in my 12h if v take sun in own sign and asc as 1h and Iits straining as if going to past to use it’s strength in present…past expertise to use now so like reading again what one has already learned and forgotten .
Even if v take conjunction then one can’t have 2 fathers so 2 signs
I didn’t say it was true for every person on Earth. I said “sometimes”. My husband has Sun, Mercury, Venus and Moon all in Aquarius in 4th house and his parents were both Capricorns. So opposite Capricorn’s house.
Sorry if I misunderstood your post but found it difficult to read.
Sorry, i have lots of typos and I just click go since I don’t want to type again and always my phone is on least battery.
I didn’t mean to object but i tried to make it seem true, i m still trying to c of u r true since just 1 example isn’t enough so I need to do my relatives charts to check. Thanks , v all learn like this and it’s helpful at times
12th house Sun and Pluto here (whole sign, which resonates with me, but I also have Venus/Uranus and Mars behind a Scorpio AC).
Absent father – yes, absent/ill/addictive/’weaker’ males- yes, love isolation and to an extent, enjoy my own secrets – very much, self-destructive – also yes. Self-esteem is very low and I feel an experience of not being heard frequently. I would def support hospitals and places of isolation being part of the 12th, as well as service- if I do something with an end goal for my ego in mind – fail, if I pursue on behalf of another, much better result, for instance charity grants. My brother is 12th house Moon, Venus and Pluto, so we are well covered between us.
Transits e.g. oppos from 6th house, Saturn opp Sun father totally disappeared, Chiron – near death in hospital for a month, locked into a type of coma for part of it, how very textbook, I was conscious but could neither speak nor move, an extraordinary experience. Neptune and Saturn incoming for opp. now. Already Neptune is giving me a very tough time indeed health wise, and it’s 1.5 degrees off.
Progressions and solar arcs are interesting, when my brothers Solar Arc Moon crossed his AC two years ago, somewhat miraculously he started taking responsibility for himself at 47. I am in hope that when my Sun bursts through my AC in 2 years I will stop feeling like a ghost in my own life. I jest a bit, there are parts of having 12th house energy that I love, most of all, the ability to go within and find solace anytime I like. Bliss.
A few thoughts on Gordon Brown – to me a more interesting example than Tony Blair of how a predominantly 12th house has been lived and experienced. At first I thought, Gordon Brown could begin to express his 12th house and the concerns of the 12th house – after he came out from Tony Blair’s shadow and the long-term competition between them. Pushing him in to a role of economics expert (where is that shown in his chart?). Pisces is intercepted in the 12th house with Sun, Jupiter, North Node, Venus and Mars in Pisces – with Neptune in Libra on Desc cusp (Pisces likely to be projected?), Mercury in Aquarius in the 12th but on the 11th/12th cusp. He’s come into his own as a hugely compassionate man (comes across as genuine and authentic), including his role with the World Health Organisation (WHO) His father was a Church of Scotland minister. A strict upbringing, precocious academically. An Aries Ascendant. Sporty with sporting injuries. The sight of one eye couldn’t be saved after a rugby injury, and the sight in the second eye was only just saved after a tennis injury. Because of his experience with the NHS, and his gratitude, he’s a great supporter. And through his children. His daughter was very ill and died and tragically after that one of his sons developed cystic fibrosis, so Gordon Brown’s involvement with national healthcare continues. Another observation – Uranus, ruler of 12th/Aquarius is right on his IC/4th house cusp.
Two people I know with 12th house Mars: A sibling, who we can only guess is in the closet, and no one knows anything about any of his relationships. Another, an erstwhile friend with Mars in the 12th. She’s “dating” a man who refuses to meet her, it’s all a phone/internet thing, been going on for a decade. All her other “relationships” have been in the same ilk, unavailable men, someone she met in a dream, etc. And she’s very convincing when speaking of all/any of these so called entities.
:-). Maarak in Sanskrit or death giver ..12h is end of birth chart and so it’s also called hidden enemies unlike 8h which is hidden life …so 12h planets r ones when one leaves earth as in season or reason.
It’s not hidden affairs that’s 8h…i found the ghost part funny…lots of unreleased energy as v don’t reveal our hidden fears 12h
Thanks Marjorie. I’m always intrigued by the 12th house and separately, the Nodes and Jupiter Retrograde in a natal chart.
Natally, I have a tight conjunction between Jupiter and Venus in the solar twelfth house which I consider spiritually auspicious. Unfortunately, this aspect is offset by an equally tight square to uranus.
I also read, but consider this with caution, that Mars in the 12th denotes a sexual vice someone successfully hides.
And when I asked a few weeks ago, I think one lady here told me Jupiter in the 12th means you get saved from something bad in the end of are secretly protected. Something like that?
It’s always protective unless it becomes excessive and hence taken for granted. I read that it tests too and initially o thought someone mixed saturn with jupiter but it seems it does..it’s only one with no malefics yet people get so heady that it becomes a curse ….but it’s all kisses end when retrograde begins and instantly…
There may be merit to that thought of Jupiter in the 12th acting as a protector in some way (Jup 0Pis32) in the 12th, Pisces rising, Sag MH. During the course of my life I have experienced quite a few times where I have been unexpectedly rescued from dire situations, physically and financially. I also have a heavy presence of Sagittarius in my chart (Sun, Ven, Chiron), so the luck of Sagittarius also needs to be factored into the equation in my case.
Don’t know if Hugh e.g. remembers this, but on Astrodienst message board there was one lady who was a student of Hamaker’s. This lady, if I recall well, worked as a social worker at one point, and when she was on duty some youths got into a brawl, it got physical, and she intervened to break them. At the time she was pregnant, and I think one of the youths accidentally kicked her in the belly. Everything went well in the end, but her daughter was born with Mars in the 12th. An aggression suffered before birth.
Thanks so much Marjorie. Really informative.
Interesting, thank you.
I associate the 12th house with secrets, what is hidden or submerged, misfortune, plots, secret enemies – someone you do not realise is your enemy and that might be your own self, ie, “she’s her own worst enemy”.
Ar the same time, indian astrology teaches that one’s own weaknesses r ones enemy and 12h asks one to face and end them.
I have had colleagues who had mercury in 12h and it was always their speech that put them in trouble but in friendships where they liked the other person, their advice was wisest.
It has been observed that it is where ones strongest and weakest lies but it seems that the myth that it is past births house where ones expertise has come to this birth and that ego with it too so need to understand that this birth needs one to be mild and choosy when using that expertise. This isn’t just on a few 12h observations but my own too.
Nevertheless, it is hidden enemy which might not be living beings only so red light to go preventive as one grows older and learns more about ones self.
Thanks Marjorie,
I find with a 12th house Pluto that my own worst enemy is usually myself.
They want us to take our rage ,gifted by our mom’s suppressed anger during pregnancy …as our enemy because they don’t want to be atoned for their sins…high time, they learnt that rage is an energy to move the boulder they placed on our mom and now they better pay ,if not by behaving then by going mute
Pluto rage comes in aid at times when one is facing mobs to mad men and zombies….it’s Hades…don’t forget ..one who punishes evil and controls them
Mine was, but I’ve worked hard on myself. Now I’m really psychologically attuned, both to myself and especially, others. I can see enemies coming, it’s like I have a kind of radar.
Don’t forget that Pluto is the place where you feel unempowered as a child, then you grow into empowerment over time regarding the themes of that house.
Thanks…v always know less and so v fear more and get duped often.
Everything has good n bad and it’s on individual to strengthen good aspects …this one resonated. Thanks
Darkness is so intriguing
Is there a sidereal / tropical problem with some examples… I’m thinking if I change my chart to be sidereal the planets will be in different signs so Jupiter in the 12th in Sagittarius which is a very different energy to Jupiter in Capricorn.
One of my grandsons is a 12th house Sun Tau, with 12th house Tau NN closely conjunct his Tau asc and Mer R in Aries in the 12th trine 8th house Pluto R in Sag. Definitely a loner, right from when he was a very small child. He appears as a young adult to be quite content in his “loner” world, too. His Mum’s Tau Moon is closely conjunct his Sun. His Mum had pre-eclampsia during the latter stages of this pregnancy and I wonder what bearing, if any, serious medical conditions have on the unborn child.
Myself, I have Jup in Pisces in the 12th conjunct Pisces asc. Like my aforementioned grandson, I am also quite content with my own company. I am one of 8 children, all born within short periods of time near each other, but kept to myself a lot during childhood, by choice and happily!
Interesting topic, Marjorie.
I have Venus in Sagittarius in the 12th sextile Mercury in Aquarius and MC in Libra. This has many levels of meaning. As a teenager, I wrote passionate love letters and sometimes still do. I have had touching relationships with professional superiors who have helped me in my career. I have sometimes been told I had discreet charm of which I am unaware. While I have fallen in love easily, on a deeper level some of these amorous friendships have acquired a striking lifelong spiritual dimension. Also, my religious experience is attracted by female figures such as Mother Mary, Hindu deities or Tara. Finally, I had a major breakdown ten years ago and was kindly brought back by my wife, a psychiatrist and a psychologist, all female. Hospital environments have given me tender care, as well as to my father whom I was close to when he died. My mother and son also have Venus in Sagittarius at the same degree.
True. The planets r also strength giving if realised and their malefics being prevented. Signs also matter and somehow, strangely, the people v meet in crisis seem to recognise those strength of 12h sign…as if past births friends as they say one is born with same friends and enemies in this birth and till one is able to vanquish enemies , the birth cycles will keep happening so those friends r born with you to help you in need.
I had a horrid time when I was pregnant with my son. I was staying with my in laws and my mother in law is not an easy person to live with. She gave me a really hard time and I just took it all in.
I remember developing this insatiable thirst during that period due to suppression of emotions, I used to drink cups and cups of water until my stomach couldn’t have anymore. I just hate that time.
My son has Jupiter, Venus and Pluto in Sagittarius 12th house. I don’t know how to interpret that.
Mercury Venus conjunct (7 degree orb) 12th house Capricorn (Placidus). I was raised by a single mom and older sister. They were both hospitalized for mental health issues and they both passed away in nursing homes.
Those two together r extreme depression being enemies.indian astrology names Mercury as murderer of Venus and it always follows it so every chart will have them near and I have observed the indian myth that it does come true so when together in persons hidden most part of life-psychology or emotional…it can wreck havoc. .Mercury is havoc on women when retrograde even if it’s strongest rest of time. I can imagine the pain they both went since mercury retrograde periods r depressive for me too, even if all is going great there is extreme sadness and past comes to haunt etc
Rachana, thank you for your feedback. I appreciate it.
Thanks…I am asked to not reveal weakness in public but I wrote that to give u strength and give u an insight of what they were going through.
Mental illness though r no more blots but people still don’t take their revelation person seriously every, they r always considered idiots who have to be kept on leash and caged, under control. Dont say this is always used to oppress their annoyance .they r forced to accept all the humiliation of others sins who r smart enough to isolate them and blame them and gaslight world and use their dr receipts to make them scapegoat since alone, none would then ever take them seriously.
Root of mental illnesses can be hereditary but cure is certainly staying busy in life, diversion by physical work to chores is cure and children r also seen as carriers since the label of hereditary and every child, despite all issues .in end cares for his life giver..blood is thicker than water
My feeling about your son’s planets in a Sagittarius 12th house is that there may be a great deal of light and power there that is hidden? A 12th house Sagittarius is a hidden ( but also deepened) Sagittarius . It’s like the archer has shot his fiery exploratory arrow down into the depths of the unconscious, of the ocean, of the soul, perhaps to retrieve things needing the light. I’d say these placements have powerful.potential: your son might be brilliant as a therapist , for instance, especially with that deep, powerful Venus- Pluto and kingly, expansive Jupiter ( Sagittarius ‘ own sign.) Student astrologer speaking here, not professional! Just my thoughts! Hope helpful.Thanks.
Thank you Antonia. I am relieved to hear some positives of this placement .
Mr. Rogers (Fred Rogers) had a Piscean anaretic Sun, 29 degrees as well as an Aries Uranus and Jupiter in his 12th (Placidus) and with that placement was gifted with the ability to instill joy and benevolence and fellowship in his audience. In Mr. Roger’s Neighbourhood, everyone was welcome, all could find friendship and happiness. I’ve read that a 12th house Jupiter can be a blessing, giving those with this placement a kind of built-in, Jupiterian hopefulness and optimism.
Thank you Virgoflake. My son is a lovely, smiley boy. He often gets complements for always wearing a smile on his face.
I was just wishing to write this so thanks..infact completely same happened with my mother and guess , my 12h planets. Thanks, it feels nice to understand what ones parent went through when one is adult.
Stay assured, u have a powerhouse and most potent planet with your child, just that support the planets strengths and prevent its weaknesses. Phoenix
Same here…didn’t realise that suppression is emoted by thirst…thanks…my friend noticed this in me but I ignored. That’s jupiter in his 12h since I went through same few days ago…I mean the thirst
That hate part is so pluto…in all moms going through it during pregnancy and I have read 3 atleast here, with Pluto in 12h as result
This makes sense. Thank you
I also had a horrible time during my pregnancy. I hated my job and I was stressed about the birth as a have phobia and ended up with a planned cesarean. I also developed a thirst at the end of it to the point that I messed up my electrolytes and could have become really ill. My daughter has mercury, Mars , venus and Pluto in Sagittarius 12th.
She’s had a terrible life so far ridden by mental health, sexual violence addiction etc.
Joe Biden and Gordon Brown also have 12th house Suns.
In politicians a 12th house Sun seems to indicate an ability to cloak their true selves.
Biden has the easy-going Sag persona of his ascendant cloaking a ruthless Scorpio Sun.
Also, you’d never guess Blair was a stubborn Taurus. In the 1997 election especially, he came across as a silver-tonged communicator (Gemini asc). Iraq etc came as a shock to those who voted for him.
Dont all politicians hide their real intentions
Since scorpio and Taurus both r silent signs, it’s difficult to find them without birthchart and with politicians these two hidden signs due to their quiet temperaments , makes finding more difficult.
Isn’t trying to be popular by pleasing all kind of statements under garb of humanity to climate change to world- hidden Sun where one is trying to overdo ones discomfort in public but then Sun rules politicians as its royal and politics begins with royalty and politics is today’s royal court
Whoa, just made me think of new pope…and his global peace speech without dictatorship
I have venus and chiron in taurus in 12th House. (7 degree orb). My mother used to say she didn’t ate much during the pregnancy as she was angered by the older subling. I was borned small and weight was just on the dot of the normal weight. Anything lighter I might be hospitalised which might just pissed off the mother. I came to a conclusion sometime last year that my tendency to stock/ hoard food might be due to that Chiron. Hunger during the natal period and also hunger growing up. We were not poverty line poor. But mother just like to prioritised herself and forget about me and my need. It doesn’t help that I have a north node in Gemini in 1st house. (the child that don’t really need the mother sort of which eventually self fulfilled itself.) Once I am older, I learnt to take advantage of trips to supermarket to stock my food stash.
My older brother, a hyperactive child – he probably was adhd and undiagnosed – kept my mother up night after night while she was pregnant with me and she was very sleep-deprived and stressed as a result. I have Uranus/NN/BML there. So I often wonder whether my night owl tendencies stem from that. I’ve mentioned this many times, but with Pluto rising in the 12th I was a home birth with the umbilical cord wrapped around my neck and was blue. So a little brush with Hades even as I was emerging from the womb.
It does…thanks..next time my mom chides me, i know who to blame for night electricity bills
R v twins:+) so many similarities…i too troubled my mom during birth but she had a jolly old doctor to keep her cheerful…maybe I got it from him since it’s also said that 1st person who lays eyes on child, child gets his temperament and so many say my youngest brother is like me and my neighbours son is like me …by god’s grace, i was fortunate to have most domestic species maternity hospital in our kitchen garden and being oldest was there at family births
My paternal grannies all 4 and my 2nd siblings….same situation. My mother was searching for job when expecting my sister and we were new household all on own as my father left his family and everyone for my mother so there was another addition coming and roof was granny’s so daily bickerings and suddenly a family of 3 with 4th on way ,has to rely on 1 income so obviously, the 1st thing one cuts expenses is on food as bills of roof to else gain priority.
My grandmother had same issues and till date my mom and I call my father and all his siblings,”born to eat”. And they never understand y I and mom don’t have so much food and 1st thing they will check is food stocked up in relatives homes 🙂 it gets funny, now but then food for them is success barometer and life meaning achieved luxury and same with my sister so she and dad r besties
Very interesting as my 12th is Aries and therefore both transiting Neptune and Saturn are entering it this year. I don’t have any planets there (only Chiron) but last time Saturn went through I found “my self”. I never realised I could take the initiative and prioritise what I wanted to over everything else. Was also a lonely time though. I can already feel that separation and self-focus happening again.
What about that thesis Marjorie often mentions that once Saturn entered the first quadrant, it is a less successful period of one’s life?
Once Saturn crossed my ascendant I began a new phase of life. On reflection it was challenging me to definine my self, my values etc. It was a fresh start which I had begun planning when Saturn was in the middle of 12th. While I am better and more knowledgeable person for everything I’ve learned since this cycle begun, I cannot claim that it has come to fruition in any meaningful way.
Thanks tonnes…I needed this now
Hi Marjorie,
May I request that you consider doing an add-on or a part two that looks at planets that are conjunct the ascendant from the 12th H as opposed to the 1st? In particular, I would be most grateful if you could advise on how to make the most of these placements so that one doesn’t get sucked into the vortex that can come with 12th H energies. Both my sister and I have fixed rising signs with challenging conjunctions: Saturn (my sister) and Uranus (myself) each in the 12th H. As you might imagine, the “mother-wound” for us both has been severe and consequential.
I have Jupiter in the 12th conjunct my Gemini Ascendent. My mother was 43 and very ill, when she was pregnant with me. Apparently it was considered and vocalised by the Doctors, that I should be terminated. My father was very religious and said no! Therefore, my sister and I had a very ill mother during our childhood. My sister doesn’t have any planets in her twelfth house and has never let go of this, I have Jupiter and didn’t hold on to my mother’s illness; or her dying when I was a teenager. It must depend on which planet/planets are near the Ascendent, their aspects and choice. People say I am very generous, this would fit with Jupiter. Perhaps I was very generous to my Mother? My mother told me that I should have been terminated. I have never held this against her in adulthood, as she died, therefore, it would only hurt me, not her and she was ill. I think the Jupiter placement helped me a lot and the fact it is in Gemini an Air sign. Jupiter is also trine my Saturn, my Moon is in Capricorn, so it fits with an older Mother and restrictions in childhood .I was able to think it through, as my Moon in Capricorn was old and pragmatic , it tends to get younger when the child/ adult gets older. Marjorie mentioned Liz Greene, I think she was the person who stated Capricorn Moons learn to play in the sandpits when they are older!
Interesting but I have only pluto but my mom never wished me, my dad did but after all baby boy preparations and months of making nursery and reading on baby boys ..he was shocked to get a girl..that was the end.
Only one ,now I m reminded was the dr who kept telling my mom,”she’s fine. She will come out when she wishes, ” despite medical books time limit crossed to allow normal delivery
But yeah, jupiter and Pluto..one saviour and other phoenix
* the natal charts of individuals whose mothers endured stressful and difficult pregnancies
Thank you for this interesting piece, Marjorie.
Regarding what you say about how 12th house planets show up in the natal charts of individuals who endured stressful and difficult pregnancies reminded me of the chart of King James I of England. Although Mary’s pregnancy was not as far as we know physically problematic, the political intrigue and instability and the personal stresses of that turmoil and potential dangers, as well as the jealousy that her husband bore towards Mary’s secretary David Riccio who he suspected of having an affair with Mary, contributed to that strain. Darnley was behind Riccio’s murder which occurred when Mary was 6 months pregnant. Thus in James’s natal chart it is interesting to see the assassin’s signature, a Mars/Saturn conjunction in Leo squaring Venus in Taurus conjunct his Midheaven.
Thanks. Have put his chart above