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Saturn Pluto – a retreat to an illiberal past

 

 

Just a quick thought on the upcoming Saturn Pluto conjunction. Usually associated with deprivation and economic hardship, and major wars, it also carries a sense of repression of freedom. I wonder whether, casting its shadow before the exact aspect in 2019, is may also be connected to the present slide towards intolerance and denunciation out in twitter land and indeed on university campuses. What is puzzling amongst today’s young is their reversion to a kind of puritanism away from a liberal past. As Matt Ridley points out in today’s Times, it is similar to the shift from louche Regency into Victorian strait-laced morality; or before that the coming of Oliver Cromwell, which was a joyless and mercifully brief excursion away from decadent monarchy.

The myth that history means progress doesn’t take account of the pendulum swings from one extreme to the other. Who’d have thought all we fought for in terms of liberation would be stamped on by the young, desperate to protect their delicate sensitivities? Mildly erotic classical paintings are being hastily removed to the basement out of sight; To Kill a Mockingbird and Huckleberry Finn have been banned in the US since they make students uncomfortable. Protected spaces are undermining free speech and denying the young the opportunity to learn about – life. And the new can’t-upset-anyone movement is, in the UK, allowing Sharia Law to spread and effectively preventing many Muslim women from enjoying the same freedom that others have.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/02/12/western-feminists-refuse-confront-vile-ideology-oppresses-arab/

What this whole twitter rage-feste which attempts to destroy any alternative viewpoint suggests to me is fascism, or Stalinism which comes to much the same thing.

London analyst Christopher Bollas writes of the fascist state of mind that it “entertains no doubt or uncertainty”. Distortion of the views of opponents to render them less intelligible and credible is the first move. They have to be discredited because no separation of view is possible from the accepted one. Denigration, character assassination and caricaturing are their weapons. French analyst Janine Chasseguet-Smirgel echoes the same thought when talking of group delusions: “He who does not think as the group does is excluded, harassed, killed or declared insane.”

If all of the above is a side effect of Saturn Pluto, it means we are in for another two years of it, which is a real bore. Roll on Aquarius.

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63 thoughts on “Saturn Pluto – a retreat to an illiberal past

  1. Hello Larry C,
    You asked about generations. The “generations” I mean are not parent/children but astrological – more to do with outer planet sign positions. Someone already mentioned the Yuppy “generation” which was to do with Virgo, these were before the more serious Saturn/Uranus/Pluto in Capricorn generation. there are, amongst others, the Neptune in Aquarius “generation”, which are more emotionally detached and politically minded and the Neptune in Pisces “generation” which have the choice to use this energy positively or negatively. The positive way would be to use the energy creatively or spiritually or to opt-out, perhaps by substance misuse.
    We live in a world of polarity. Whatever planets, in whatever signs, in our birth chart we can put to good use or lesser so. Most of us do a bit of each.

  2. At the risk of setting off another firestorm – it has always struck me that one of the differences between the ‘baby boomers’ and later generations, is that the former, at least in Europe, were brought up by parents who had lived through World War 11 and grandparents through WW1. Those were tough times and for all baby boomers are supposed to have had it easy in financial terms, they were brought up in the shadow of the great wars, where priorities were different. Their elders were necessarily tougher because of their experiences.

    On a totally different subject, does anyone have any ideas about the astrology driving the transgender issue? A relatively rare disorder comparatively speaking in actual numbers of those with gender identity issues, yet it has gone viral.

    • Do you think it is as much plugged into the zeitgeist as the women issues at the moment? I personally don’t think the female issues today is to do with beating men down but for women to take equal ground and be accepted and deliberately sweeping away misogynistic wood and allowing the real, decent men to emerge (but then, I’m the Pluto in Libra generation and felt this is a long time coming) – I think the transgender issues is as much connected to the identity of equality even though it is an almost obscure core. Same with LGBT issues. I think it is all interrelated; women, transgender, LGBT – the very things a misogynistic culture despises and wants to beat back to invisibility.

      Just wondering if that which drives the women’s movement at the moment can be astrologically fitted to the transgender/LGBT community or better yet is it the shadowy underside that is part of the more masculine times we are living in? Didn’t you post some time back that the recent present and the next couple of years ahead is going to be, astrologically speaking, an ugly example of the cold, unfeeling side of masculinity? I think it is all related/a reflection to that considering the times (social media, everybody feels they have a voice) that we are living in.

    • A totally different subject, but perhaps one to create another storm…? Interesting though. I wonder whether Scorpio could be involved. We have the Neptune in Scorpio “generation”. Scorpio doesn’t really fit into the normal male/female designation of the signs. Jupiter in Scorpio travelling back and forth forming a quincunx aspect to Uranus in Aries, which itself is conjunct Eris – the planet of chaos… Just a thought (not too controversial I hope).

    • The transgender issue perhaps is the very strong Neptune in Pisces? With people identifying as non-binary, which seems like a rejection of hard, Saturnine, either/or definitions. With Pluto Saturn, things that have always been underground, or invisible to some, will be hoisted to the top of the mountain for all to see.

      Yes my war generation grandparents were very resilient, not strict though. My ’44 born father described Britain in the 1950’s as an austere place; bomb sites, long walks to school in the snow in short trousers, smogs, pear drops on ration!! However, he didn’t go to school with children from war zones like I did (Somalia mostly, in the early 90’s), or a comprehensive education like my very diverse inner city school. None of his class mates served in a war zone. He never had to get straight back on a tube train and go to work the day after a suicide bomb attack. I don’t think any group’s childhood or younger adulthood has 100% rosy influences. Right now children are being cyber-bullied, I can’t imagine how that feels.

      I think there are two factors in Britain with the “boomer” generation: Firstly, the education system of Secondary Moderns and Grammars. One group given a skills based education over broader academic concepts and critical thinking; I think brexit shows this up as does the politically motivated meddling in the current system. Secondly, more specific to the relationship with the younger generation, guilt surrounding divorce and “broken homes”, I could expand but I think the comments section here is probably long enough!

      • Thanks for the Neptune in Pisces thought – makes a lot of sense. Will start a strand on that tomorrow or when I have time. Transgender is a 1% problem; and LGBT is maybe 5-7% plus. But it seems to be consuming the centre ground. I’m always fascinated by what ideas take root out in the zeitgeist and why. Anyways for another day.

        • Intersting question, the simple answer can be assumed to be that identity is a subject for all of us. Perhaps gender identity is changing on a more wide spread scale that impacts everyone. So now, it is acceptable to talk about identity that differs from traditional expectations. Neptune allows us to be subsumed by the anything that can be everything before it forms the material structure of physical life. So I guess Neptune in Pisces would support a reimagaining of the self. The seven pluto-uranus squares (evolution and revolution) may have been the instigator, and Neptune the support mechanism.

  3. I hire a lot of young people. I find them to be brilliant and eager problem solvers. Then again I have a Moon in Capricorn so I probably am able to emotionally attune to them in a different manner than most. I fail to see many of the blanket statements made in this post or in the comments. To each his own I guess. One could wonder if the distress and criticisms conveyed are a reflection of the faults of the commenter that states them?

    • Oddly enough, you’ve done the very thing you’ve pointed out: you are criticising other people’s comments. This is the perfect capper to the whole lively, energetic discussion. Kudos, Heather.

    • “Hello, pot?”

      “Yes…”

      “This is kettle calling…you’re black!”

      I do not question the brilliance and eagerness to work hard. I thoroughly question, however, many of their underlying agendas such as self-righteousness and entitlement to the degree that outsiders are thoroughly attacked and brow-beaten, etc. They’re everywhere out here: they wear sunglasses day, night, and in all weather conditions.

      Moon in Cap doesn’t convey special attunement powers…maybe tin foil hats do the trick.

    • Amazing and just something I threw off at the end of the day. Now up to 50 comments. Though I must say I do get irritated with the ban this /ban that because it upsets us brigade.
      I’m still over busy but will turn my mind to what other social hot spots might be astrologised.

  4. The media seizes on any old guff and won’t ket the facts get in the way of a good story. For example, the removal of the Waterhouse nymph painting was never meant to be permanent, but was a decision by artist Sonia Boyce as part of her exhibition at the gallery in order to stimulate debate about how we judge images in paintings as opposed to those in photographs. But the press decided to do a totally misleading clickbait “militant millennial demands censorship” angle. I’m more concerned with the way the media tend to put their agenda first and twist the evidence to fit in with it than the alleged behaviour of an entire generation. Truth gets sacrificed on the altar of prejudice.

    As for the young, it is their role to irritate their elders, just as their elders irritated their elders before them. “The old believe everything; the middle-aged suspect everything; the young know everything” said Oscar Wilde well over a hundred years ago.

    • Thanks for the Wilde quote. Love it. Twas ever thus.

      “Whither are the manly vigor and athletic appearance of our forefathers flown? Can these be their legitimate heirs? Surely, no; a race of effeminate, self-admiring, emaciated fribbles can never have descended in a direct line from the heroes of Potiers and Agincourt… “1771

      ‘Never has youth been exposed to such dangers of both perversion and arrest as in our own land and day. Increasing urban life with its temptations, prematurities, sedentary occupations, and passive stimuli just when an active life is most needed, early emancipation and a lessening sense for both duty and discipline, the haste to know and do all befitting man’s estate before its time, the mad rush for sudden wealth and the reckless fashions set by its gilded youth–all these lack some of the regulatives they still have in older lands with more conservative conditions.’ 1904

      “The children now love luxury. They have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise.” Socrates (millenia ago).

    • It should be possible to stimulate debate without removing a painting that some people are expecting to see when they visit a gallery. Art lovers travel a long way to see the Waterhouse painting and imagine how cross they would feel with the #metoo movement if they were then denied a viewing. Removing politically unacceptable art was how the Nazis behaved . The above post is about Saturn Pluto and the repression of freedom.
      ‘Those who see ugly meanings in beautiful things are corrupt without being charming. This is a fault’ Also, Oscar Wilde.

      • I agree, but this is the kind of publicity-seeking stunt Art Galleries sometimes pull in order to get the media’s interest. Personally, I find the Waterhouse painting very beautiful.

  5. Goodness, this has stoked up a storm. No one generation is better, or worse, than another – just different. The astrological cards that we are given in our birth chart are sometimes more difficult to deal with than others. The important thing is what we do with the “cards” we are given. The houses that the planets land in give us clues to the areas of life we can use the energies we are given to get to know the outer world and, perhaps more importantly, our own personality, and how best to put them to use. Every generation has its purpose in the greater scheme of things.
    Everything that serves separation – them and us situations – does not lead to a better world. We are all unique and the opportunity we all have is to discover our unique talents and abilities and how we can use them in a positive way.

  6. Heavens, who’d have thought a stray thought would have pitched up such a reaction? Is interesting though the juxtaposition of safe spaces for snowflakes and the hair-raising/gut-churning Games of Thrones and The Walking Dead type of entertainment which is soaked up eagerly. GOT audience is mainly 18 to 29 year olds; v few amongst oldies. Walking Dead again is mainly young and tails off amongst the wrinklies.
    The internet has changed life out of all recognition. Some good results with activists being able to come together across the globe and build up a critical mass for positive change. Some not so great with ‘screamers’ now having an anything-goes outlet and at times swaying the public consciousness in negative ways. And the media has a habit of pushing pendulum swings too far one way and then going in reverse.
    I was involved in a child abuse information campaign in the 1990s and saw it first-hand. In the late 1980s, child abuse began to be reported as a serious problem. Then the general public and media got satiated. The denial lobby kicked in and got the lion’s share of the coverage and practically buried the whole problem under a tsunami of claims of false allegations. It’s taken another decade or two to swing it back. That would be my concern about #metoo. All it takes is enough high-profile cases of false allegations and it will subside again.

  7. The ‘younger generation’ are NOT ‘so precious’ – they are savvy, incredibly sophisticated in their grasp of irony and subtle humour in a way that many literally, absolutely cannot comprehend! I’m afraid far too much of this article comes from what the likes of The Telegraph and similar older commentators are cherrypicking from the ocean of social media. For every action a reaction: social media makes every single person exist in the same room, with the same authority of voice. If you explore the real virtual places teens and twentysomethings hang out, and can parse the in-jokes and self-references, you’ll find vigorous, many-leveled discussion that is well equipped to deal with the excesses of puritanical minorities and alarming right-wingers alike. They are dealing with the most profound technological invention the human race has ever had to adapt to: social media, which has become ordinary so quickly most of us haven’t realised how deeply it has already changed us. They are toughening up and getting wise to nonsense very quickly.

      • Or an old person (gasp!) or criminal, or an 8 year old, or someone from a different country or religious background, or Marine as female or as a Marine in the military. One thing not mentioned in ?’s Paean to youth and social connection is that everyone lies. The pretty instagram pics hide a load of tears. So do blogs and snapchat, tinder and facetime. Yep, they are just the Best Ever!!!! Emoji!!! Lie to you later!

  8. hmmm a lot of interesting points here, some of the very emotionally charged responses seem to forget that no single human has a monopoly on the truth.

    not me and not any of us here of any generation , that by the time Saturn conjuncts Pluto it is the long held beliefs and opinions that are ‘obviously the right ones’ for now in some people’s minds which will be challenged and torn down…not that of the ‘other-side’ if there is ever such a thing.

    on the one hand breaking free from this ‘mental conditioning’ where the media and the internet mobs want you to hold the opinions they are trying to stuff your heads with (and woe to you should you use your own mind to gather your own facts and reach your own conclusions …specially if they are different from what they are training you that your opinion ‘should’ be)…is a good thing…as nothing good comes from applying communist principles to mass thought.

    on the other hand is it a good thing? I don’t know neither do I know anyone who has travelled to the future and can report back to us and tell us. Whatever happens, best of luck to you all, and I hope it all leads to a more loving, tolerant and happy world for all living creatures in the end.

    • For all the younger (and some older) know-it-alls, I listen for a while. I glean what I can as I might need to unlearn some habits. But for the long haul, I keep my own counsel and remain off the wacko radar screens. For those who try to “tell me what I need to know and have to understand”, I let them know what a mouthful of bone and tough gristle I would be; not very tastey. They go looking for tastier prey.

      • they deserve that at times! though not all older generations are wise or younger ones dumb….i still don’t get younger people who don’t get it, that anyone older than them has lived for longer than them so saw more than them and most of the time…knows more, and has a good reason for his or her action.

        The problem isn’t moving away from liberal mindsets to puritanism with this Pluto Saturn aspect, it is that Pluto digs deep, but Saturn restricts …so digging deeper will be restricted, but both will challenge each other as neither planet is a push over.

        and for whatever reason, people seem to be self restricting themselves from digging deeper into any subject already, due to this conditioning of its better to avoid discussing this and that fact about this so called movement with a hashtag next to it, or that guy locked up there,

        as some normal people themselves have taken it upon themselves to organise web mobs (todays witch hunters i suppose) and give you a headache until you tell them they are right, as they obviously can’t be wrong as they know how to google things and use social media well and have strong opinions about everything under the sun, even if they just heard of it….because here…they just googled it.

        Anyway in lines with what I know from Chinese astrology the age of ‘social media’ has already started to wane and another industry is taking its place over the next ten years such we are in 2018 already…on the other hand this year itself should be good for science, so hopefully better fact checking practices.

  9. Just wow. “A little kindness and tolerance”, you plead. And yet this article is the epitome of intolerance with all its rather bitter Daily Mailesque sweeping generalisations. Have you actually ever spoken to anyone under 45 recently?

  10. For generational division – since this seems to be, quite frankly, the theme on this blog, there’s a tremendous negative bias for people younger born with Pluto in Libra and past -, I’ll take Saturn conunct Pluto any day over that mushy Saturn square Neptune which gave us hoardes of older generation people – especially Pluto in Leo – falling for “alternative facts” and voting for Trump and Brexit. I mean, in 2015 and 2015, I had literally dozens of educated people approaching pensionable age reposting Russian generated news from websites that had gone up sometimes literally two weeks before telling how “MSM media lies” on my newsfeeds. And no, they would not listen when I pointed out IPs or domains registered in very questionable locations. Also, I remember when Julian Assange was a hero, not to younger “joyless” generation, but to Pluto in Leo and Pluto in Virgos.

    In fact, if there’s one good thing about Saturn conjunct Pluto, it’s fake media will be taken down. Already happening with social media, should get to so called mainstream media, too.

    • There’s always an exception to every rule. And there are also different ways of playing the hand of cards you were dealt by the celestial fates. But there’s no doubt there are generational markers. Oldies tend to be more right wing though not sure about falling for Russian propaganda especially in Europe where there are clearer memories of the horrors of communism.
      Still seems to have wakened everyone up this one, surprisingly. Which really was sparked off by my irritation of the overly-sensitive young. In my university days we were out fighting against apartheid and for contraception for the unmarried and sexual liberation. And doing courses in Jacobean drama (rape, incest, murder) without keeling over.

      • The effects of Russian based “fake news” have been studied in many countries, and yes, it is the older generation falling for it, even in old Eastern Bloc. For instance, in Czech Republic, it was the older generation voting for Miloš Zeman, who is a Putin puppet in all. And if you are looking for Millenials caring for their reproductive rights, look no further than Poland. The people demostrating against proposed, stricter abortion laws are not old ladies who used abortion as contraception in their day.

        I also would like to say that #metoo campaign and what it presents has been maligned a lot in the media, which is of course mostly owned by old, white guys. I try to stay away from this conversion on Twitter, but I see a friend is constantly responding to messages from accounts that seem very “bottish” pushing crazy claims on what feminism is. I also read an article here on National Art Museum Director – who is female – being concerned about this crowd wanting to censor some older paintings depicting mythical rape scene because of #metoo. The thing is, she was referring to “some” letters received before the campaign, that quoted nudity as well. Leading feminist figures, many of who are artists who’ve infact depicted sexual violence in their works, were mystified about the claims they’d somehow be unable to read the context – that has been the point of cultural studies, for years. So, there definitely is a backlash, a d it could be cordinated to some extend.

        However, based on general trends and on my experience working and studying with people born in the late 1980’s and 1990’s, I just don’t see any “prudish” trend there. Just look at their favorite shows. “Game of Thrones” has considerable amount of sex and nudity. Even the latest “Star Trek Discovery” episode included an implied bisexual orgy. Norwegian “Skam”, depicting teenage life realistically (although in an upper middleclass environment), had also sex in it, even teenage gay sex. Teenagers and 20 somethings may not be having sex as much as they used to, but they do watch it and talk about it.

        So no, young people are not distrubed by sex, they are disturbed by power structures related to sex. And I think it was about the time, I don’t think this was fully issued by the 1960’s and 1970’s feminists, whose answer to power issues was to turn away from the sex or turn Lesbian (as if the same sex relationships didn’t have power issues). This may also be the reason so many Libra Plutos are involved: we were thought we could do anything we wanted with our lives and our bodies, but too often met A Creep, who did not respect our authonomy. And, what’s worse, people in power covering for him and not believing us. But I, for one, saw this changing with even before #metoo. Not only girls, but boys too became more sensitive to these issues. I did see some Pluto Scorpio guys at work encouraging an intern to report a boss for attempted rape. She didn’t, but basicly, these guys did what none of, let’s say, Harvey Weinstein’s employees did. They believed the intern, and potentially put their career at risk.

      • ‘Sparks’ me up, Marjorie because I am confused by the behaviour of students. They watch ‘Game of Thrones’ but need to be protected from Shakespeare; they are semi-nude and dressed in S&M clothing in Oxford City Centre but have erotic paintings removed. They have chunder charts and award themselves 3 points for getting hospitalised because they have alcohol poisoning and have vomited in the streets. I don’t see anything puritanical about their behaviour, more Great Gatsby [trigger warning] than Oliver Cromwell. A friend and I joked that a trigger warning would have been nice before we went to the theatre in Birmingham on a Saturday night, not because we were scared of watching the play but had to negotiate wasted students falling over in the streets and being picked up by paramedics. Not judging just saying perplexed.
        Paul Beatty has a character in The Sell Out rewriting American classics ‘The Perjurative Free Adventures and Intellectual & Spiritual Journey of African American Jim and his Young Protégé White Brother Huckleberry Finn as they go in search of the Lost Black Family Unit’ And that Mocking Bird wouldn’t have died if he’d had a gun.

  11. Ask my daughter! I predicted this radical right move long ago seeing the Saturn/ Pluto effect especially on those born with all the Capricorn emphasis in their charts. In someways it seems to be a natural phemenonwhich keeps the balance between severity and over liberality which has been equally stupid and harmful when wrongly applied. There are times to be merciful and times to be severe as in bringing up children. There is always the happy medium and hopefully we may see that ….meanwhile the pendulum swings far right before it can start moving back to the centre ground!

    • Swing to the far right only because of the momentum from having moved from the far left. Do we want the pendulum to remain still, in the center? Don’t think so.

    • Something sudden, unexpected and limiting, affecting the entire generation. And this is in Capricorn, which is going to favor business and governments with that trine.

      Since we’re talking pensioners, or those close to it, this may be retirement benefits or health insurance being curtailed.

      In the US, Medicare just limited the payment of physical therapy to $2500, which puts stroke victims and those who have broken a hip or had joint replacement paying out of pocket beyond that benefit amount. Articles about it say that amount could only last a couple of weeks. It’s not enough for the severely debilitated. What’s next on their hit list—cancer patients? Hospice? Nursing home benefits?

      Social Security now figures payments differently, to the detriment of that generation of upcoming retirees, especially women stayed home to mother their children. Each year of no payments into social security is now factored in as a zero in the payout formula, taking their retirement down. No minimum payment anymore, either (it used to be $350 a month).

      Pluto Uranus people had no clue this would happen as they made their choices in life, since Social Security and Medicare have been relatively stable, and hands-off politically.

          • sorry about that, no idea how it got sent. However like I was saying, as mentioned a restricting jolting influence.

            In a certain East European country, the parliament targeted the pension funds of retirees two years ago, decreasing them, to help the government budget….in the meantime the MP’s their increased their own salaries at the same time.

            I will not be su

      • Not sure if 50 counts as close to retirement – this generation will obvisouly not be as well off in retirement as the previous one. I was more specially tagging the Saturn/Mars/Pluto conjunction trine the 1960s pluto/uranus as a shorter sharp shock, so I wondered that a trine might spark off some kind of understanding and insights into the structural problems in the governmental and financial systems that seem to be creeking along. Saturn is so helpful at supporting the restructuring of things, and I wondered whether there will be some upsurge in political practoce that has a chance of gaining traction. The reason I say this is that many in GenX (65-75ish) are about to step into multiple positions of power as they head into their 50s (pluto trine pluto is a power signature for those with the right peronal planet contacts). Left-collective vs right-individual is past its sell by date so a political paradign shift would be a possible opportunity. The early 90s babies do have uranus/neptune in Capricorn so might not use the energy in the usual way. They also have a sextile to Pluto in Scorpio that could give them rare insight.

  12. No. The “poor me” babies of that generation are the ones who get more airtime these days, for whatever reason. To imply, or speak as if they are all like that is quite frankly embarrassing. To quote Jeni below me;

    “I don’t think dividing groups into very distinct young/old male/female is particularly helpful, as power abuses impact on all of these. The danger is that simplifications overide important insights.”

  13. Larryc I have been told previously that ‘May you live in interesting times’ is an old Chinese curse. It certainly sounds like it could be, but I am no expert.

  14. The tendency to be intolerant and “precious” is probably a generational thing. I did astrological reports for babies and children for quite some years and found distinct differences between certain generations. Perhaps you would look at a chart for around 1990 ~ Saturn, Uranus and Neptune were in Capricorn and Jupiter in Cancer ~ the first group would make most souls puritanical and Jupiter in Cancer can lead to a poor-me attitude to life. I wouldn’t worry too much other more promising generations have been born since.

    • “…more promising generations born since the 1990’s”?

      Generational separations are roughly 25 yrs apart, n’est pas? Batches of babies have been born since then, of course but not generations.

      • Sounds hitler-like, yes? Branding people just because of their birth situation. A slippery slope. The hitler “generation” was supposedly the shining stars in Germany and look how that worked out for the Earth.

        We should all be leary of labeling huge groups of people as better or strong, or whiny poor me.

        • I don’t believe that astrologers want to brand anyone or push anyone into any kind of preconceived mould. The Saturn/Pluto in Capricorn “generation” or group can be extremely practical, level-headed and down to earth, but can also be critical and controlling.. Those who also have Jupiter in Cancer can tend toward the poor-me, but can also be excellent cooks and parents and also be very compassionate toward others. This still makes them different to other generations ~ not better or worse ~ just different.

          • Should have added that in your first comment. To single out those specifically aspected people for criticism and then imply everyone born after that is a-ok is either weak analysis or bad astrology.

    • It is fascinating to see how ‘generational’ aspects affect temperaments – just ask school teachers!
      The late 1980s/early 1990s Saturn, Uranus, Neptune conjunction in Capricorn can throw up minor geniuses, but they all tend to be highly-strung, can-be-fanatical and on a fine mental balance.
      Saturn Pluto in Libra of the early 1980s – Prince William and wife – battened down, stubborn. Even more tenacious were the 1946/47 Saturn Pluto in Leo generation – Hillary Clinton etc – very tenacious, tough.
      The early 1950s – Saturn Neptune in Libra square Uranus – the hippy-dippy flower power batch. Not all clearly, but it was a significant mark of those ones.
      Uranus Pluto in Virgo of the mid 1960s – status-quo upsetters, on the leading edge, rebellious, chaotic.
      Not all years have strong outer planet aspects, which probably makes for calmer temperaments.

      • Interestingly, Uranus/Pluto babies of the 1960’s are mostly anything but “upsetters”. Must be the Virgo. Just look at what they did as teenagers, in the early to mid 1980’s. They were generally speaking very lame compared both people born in the late 1950’s and early 1960’s, who were into punk, and the next (my) generation, from early to mid 1970’s, who went full grunge. Of course, there were exceptions, and they became icons to the younger crowd, but just to clarify, Kurt Cobain felt he was an outsider all his life, and people in Nirvana Concerts were mostly a couple of years younger than the musicians. Now, you get a class of people born in 1975, and they would be “upsetters”, especially the spring babies.

        If you want an example, there’s this year’s Italian Sanremo Festival winner Fabrizio Moro, born April 9th 1975. His performance is telling, but I also see his lifepath following that of many people I know born around that time – some successes, but still underachieving. It’s because they are incredibly restless. It was evident to me even at school – we, the 1976 and 1977 Fixed Saturn kids were much more concentrated, in a way.

        I give it to you on 1980’s Saturn/Pluto in Libra. Again, in Sanremo, Fabrizio Moro duetted with Ermal Meta, who is a 1981 cusp Aries/Taurus. He has Saturn/Jupiter conjunct in early Libra. He came to Italy as a boy from Albania, with his mother. His father was violent both towards his mother and him. And now he is considered by many the best lyricists of his generation on a language he only started officially learning as a preteen. He had good royaltoes coming in from songs he wrote to others before becoming a soloist a couple of years ago.

        • The Young British Artists or “YBA’s” who flogged all those “every day items with a twist” art installations to Charles Saatchi were all Uranus/Pluto in Virgo, weren’t they? As were a lot of those 90’s supermodels. Yuppies – high paying jobs for what previous generations would call pen pushers. Superstar jobs – celebrity chefs, celebrity hairdressers, celebrity gardeners fueling all those cooking/property shows on television and even people like David Cameron who suddenly came to power without ever having a proper job in his life. Uranus smashes through previous limits and Pluto brings to the masses. You’re right though, a lot of these were much maligned, weren’t they? Never ignored though!

      • “…can-be-fanatical and on a fine mental balance” Reads like brittle/fragile personalities with hair-trigger reactions.

        Reminds me of living in Portland, Oregon; they’re all like that. Was there 11 yrs, not one friendship was made. Lots of enemies, however.

  15. For me, Saturn and Pluto joining up in Capricorn represents strident resistence and restriction to deep changes (unconscisouly perceived) in the structures of government and business etc. Old Saturn rules Capricorn, so it may have the upper hand in any power struggles, and Pluto has an uncanny habit of unearthing the truth. I don’t think dividing groups into very distinct young/old male/female is particularly helpful, as power abuses impact on all of these. The danger is that simplifications overide important insights. Maybe the Tower in the tarot is a suitable image, where the structures are felt to be wanting.

  16. When does it look like everything starts to look up somewhat, Marjorie? We really are in a precious spin-cycle of emotions and reactions these days which is dredging up the uglier side of our humanity. It’s annoying and a little disturbing to think we might be getting stuck. As mentioned in some of my posts before, I do believe we progress for the better but we will always have those zig-zag motions that constantly sidetrack us. This is one of those periods that have us reverting morally backwards and skidding on the toilet seat of life! Roll on to better times because this last year, in particular, has been a real bloody grind on us all.

  17. great comments. The younger generation are so precious, controlling and seem to lack any sense of humor. Their judge, jury and executioner mentality is dangerous and cruel and wrecks peoples’ lives without producing actual evidence of the crime they are accused of.
    A little kindness and tolerance and an understanding that 40 years ago life was a very different culture would go a long way. In no way am I condoning rape or any sexual crime but talk is cheap and peoples’ lives are not.

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