A Tony Blair intervention usually evokes an exasperated sigh from the electorate who wish he’d bury himself somewhere far away. But for once his grandstanding on Brexit has been welcomed by everyone apart from Theresa May who accused him of “undermining” the Brexit talks by calling for another referendum and saying his comments were an “insult to the office he once held.” He spat back. “What is irresponsible is to try to steamroller MPs into accepting a deal they genuinely think is a bad one with the threat that if they do not fall into line, the government will have the country crash out without a deal.”
Given that many on her own side including John Major and other Cabinet members have been chipping in their tuppence worth over different scenarios it’s not clear why she erupted over Blair. Especially since Brussels made it perfectly clear there will be no further negotiations.
As an aside, mainstream commentators have been getting more and more blunt about her state of mind.
Matthew Parris, Times: “At what point does tenacity become rigidity become mulishness become a frozen panic? Does she hear? Does she see? Does she know? Is there anyone at home?” “Colleagues are getting the creeps. They fear she’s flying us on into the night as flight MH370 from Kuala Lumpur flew on, essentially pilotless, the aircraft’s captain … elsewhere.”
John Crace, Guardian: “Even someone as semi-detached as the Maybot has a breaking point. She is well beyond the point where a simple reboot via the control-alt-delete keys can restore her to her factory settings. She is now experiencing such a total systems overload that she couldn’t begin to pass the Turing test.”
Back to the Blair-May combo. Both are excessively stubborn. He with a Sun and Jupiter in Taurus plus an Aquarius Moon and Pluto in Leo; she with her Thatcherite Saturn in Scorpio square Pluto Venus in Leo. Her downbeat Saturn opposes his exuberant Jupiter Mars, for a clash of personalities.
Their relationship chart is a sight to behold with a mutually unsupportive (ego-clash) composite Mars opposition Neptune in a disruptive, needs-space, on-differing-agendas square to Sun, Uranus Jupiter. With a hostile-dislike Mars trine Pluto. It’ll erupt into real fury from the March 29 2019 exit date onwards. She won’t be around (cross fingers) in No 10 for too much longer, but wherever she is will be buried under a tsunami of blame for her mishandling of the entire farrago.
Not that I’m arguing for a second referendum – my heart sinks at yet more agony, and it might well turn out much the same result – but preparations should have been made for fall back alternatives.
I’m not sure about all this ‘undemocratic’ argument. Democracy is voting in one party or another on a simple majority. And if three or four years later it turns out to have been a mistake, then the national mind gets changed and the other lot are voted in.
It’s arguable that the undemocratic thing is to hold an irrevocable referendum at all. Especially in this instance given possible outside interference in campaigning, over- spends, misinformation etc.
I have a friend who thinks we ought to stay in and then weaponise heavyweight journalists to mount an effective assault on the malpractices of the EU. Part of voter gripe about the EU is that our limp politicians grumble but have no real impact on the way things are run.
And it’s not just an EU problem – it’s one of the reasons Trump got voted in – a sense that USA politics had become sclerotic and needed a sharp boot. Wrong solution but same problem.
I very much doubt whether the EU is going to travel down the homogenising route with loss of national identities and more centralisation. It seems more likely – after a major economic pounding over the next several years – that they’ll either move towards a two-speed EU of north and south/east; or ultimately shift back to the original notion of a trading bloc which makes sense.
I do agree that about the EU and where countries feel thier loss of national identities,I feel this will be the EU’s undoing and its malpractice.
Spot on Marjorie. Also, I wonder about all the 16-20 year olds, who are full adult passport holders and EU citizens, who are about to have their citizenship revoked without their consent. What is the democratic plan for them?
OK, I can tell my opinion is going to be really popular, but I’ll just leave it here anyway 🙂
Even an “unregistered sociopath” can be right about some things, there is nothing illogical about agreeing with Tony Blair on one issue just because it’s Tony Blair. It just seems bonkers to me to have it all hang on the whim of one random day in June 2016, where the electorate tried their best on the little they were given to go on. Yes it will be a drag, but honestly, so what? It’s permanent and we owe it to the 70% of young people who voted remain and all those who worked towards peace in Northern Ireland. This affects their future far more than ours and I think we are letting them down terribly if we don’t do everything we can to have a final, informed decision on this just because it’s a bit of a drag or some us have become divided and a bit tribal about it.
Remaining in the EU may be fraught with problems, but you could argue that the problems are far less than leaving. I think the possible future shape of the EU is not a reason to leave now, so many other events could influence that including what’s going on in France right now. Cross those bridges when you come to them. One thing for sure is that we will have no influence over the shape of the EU outside it.
Titus,
Thank you!
“As for Blair the unregistered sociopath I wouldn’t recommend burying him without a stake through the heart just to make sure he is grounded for good.”
Most sensible comment ever made in relation to Tony Blair!
If the referendum had been won by a larger majority, and the campaign not fraught with lies and misinformation then a second referendum might be un democratic. It is a risk, but it is becoming obvious that leaving the EU will cause harm to the economy and to the country so something needs to be done to break the deadlock and to protect jobs here and in the EU.
Surely in a democratic society there are no ifs and buts when a vote takes place. Unless stipulated otherwise i.e. a qualifying margin is incorporated into the terms and conditions of the vote, then majority wins – even if that majority is one person. That’s what democracy is – rule by majority decision. People I know who voted out are all highly educated people who thought about it all carefully and voted according to their conscience. I’m talking doctors, lawyers and accountants here. I get a bit fed up hearing the “lies and misinformation” argument. It makes it sound like all remainers view leavers as incapable of coming to their own conclusions, and all of them are idiots or worse. In addition, Hugh Fowler is quite right in that staying would also produce uncomfortable consequences. If you follow astrology, the aspects would be the same even if the vote had gone the other way. So what makes you so sure things would be better?
Sarah,
I am not arguing your point except to say this: Highly educated people like doctors, lawyers and accountants aren’t necessarily worldly, wise, or critical thinkers. Their education is limited to their field of practice and aren’t necessarily transferable to other areas of life. Further, being educated in a specialized field should not be taken for granted that they are critical thinkers. Many are good or maybe excellent in their specialize field but useless in other areas or life or humanity. An example, many engineers are of the conservative bent.
On the night of the US election in 2016, a doctor friend of my husband texted him to say that ” this is a great night for doctors.” My husband has since refused to speak to him because of his ignorance. And I am sure, that doctor friend of my husband thought that his vote was well thought out and he voted his conscience.
Janet I take your point, although would like to say in this instance these people were involved with global companies so well aware, probably more so than many others, of possible consequences. However that aside my point was that it seems to me many remainers dismiss the leavers out of hand as people incapable of coming to the right conclusion. I would argue that what they really mean is really is people who don’t agree with them. And so a second referendum gets mooted. I believe this is totally undemocratic. Discourse is part of the democratic system without doubt, but the final decision rests on a majority decision vote. Which happened. Democracy does not mean having a second go at it if you didn’t like the first time decision. What kind of precedent would that set? I’m sorry I really don’t agree with this and I would also like to add here, that I am an expat living in Europe and have been out of the UK for almost 20 years. As I have been out of the UK for over 15 years I was not allowed to vote in the referendum. So all this too-ing and fro-ing will effect my life without doubt and yet I had no say a tall. However I firmly believe in democracy, and a majority vote, and if Brexit is the way it’s going to be, then so be it.
Sarah,
I hear you. Your point is valid and therefore I had no argument with it. I merely wanted to point out that having a “title” does not mean that one is a critical thinker/intelligent/wise or bigotry free. The “title” simply means that you are skilled in that particular training.
interesting point about the astrology and the aspects being the same if the vote had been remain. I know many people who voted out and they stand firm.I am more likely to vote out if we had the vote again and most people I know are brexiteers. I know lots of people who voted remain are fuming that vote is being ignored.But that is in my world. For me its about MP’s hiding behind EU laws and thier impotence and deafness.MP’s will want to remain as the EU is thier biggest excuse for thier apathy toward thier voters.What if we get a vote and its higher next time? What then?
My apologies, the logic in this piece is somewhat muddled. I am just so irritated with May’s ‘my way is the only way’ that it was heartening to see Tony Blair whacking back, even if I dislike him for multifarious reasons. And I don’t think another referendum is a good idea. Not because it would be undemocratic. Voters went in blind and deluded to the 2016 ref, copiously lied to by Leavers about how easy-peasy it would all be. No one laid out in detail what the implications would be.
But this far down the road, for the reasons Hugh gives below and with the Brussels technocrats having made themselves even more unlikeable than before, I suspect the result would be much the same.
There’s nothing in May’s astrology to suggest she’s on anything but a lose lose lose path for 2019/2020. Her deal is effectively staying in the EU on worse terms than before and I can’t see it getting through Westminster. So if we’re leaving properly whether in 2019 or 2021, would someone please make some preparations.
I am a remainer through and through but the concept of another referendum sends shivers up my spine. We live in a democracy and our politicians need to respect that? Also surely another referendum would set a dangerous precedent in a country with an unwritten constitution? Also surely it would have to be another two referenda (ums).
Tony Blair and the labour party and all MP’s need to have a Referendum reminder.
By constituency. 406 Leave 242 remain
BY voting area 263 Leave 119 remain
By party. Labour 84 remain 148 Leave
Tory 80 remain 247 leave.
By MP 400 Remain 248 Leave The Problem –
MPs simply not in tune with the electorate and out to thwart their decision.I dont belive in MP’s but we should believe in democracy
I am a Brexiteer looking for a no-deal Brexit that is sure to put the frighteners on the global corporations as the see their market share and stock prices dwindle. Add to this potion Trumps threat to impose a stiff import tariff on German car imports things are not looking too good for the Fatherland a few months hence. As for Blair the unregistered sociopath I wouldn’t recommend burying him without a stake through the heart just to make sure he is grounded for good.
Titus,
Brilliant, “…I wouldn’t recommend burying him without a stake through the heart….”
The slight problem for both Conservative and Labour Parties is that they committed to honouring the 2016 Referendum result in their 2017 General Election manifestos. In addition the government has invoked article 50 and Parliament passed an EU Withdrawal Bill in 2018 setting a date to Leave. To now go back to the people again in yet another Referendum because they cant cope with the consequences suggests very much that the British Parliament is not up to the job of governing the UK. This particularly applies to the Conservative Party who will be seen to have invoked a Referendum twice in the space of less than 4 years if they do it again while the current government is in power. In my opinion that would lead to political death at the ballot box come another General Election.
One other point to consider is that Remaining in the EU is as fraught with problems as Leaving as the Washington post pointed out today. In particular the question of what type of EU do those hoping to reverse the 2016 Referendum result want. The EU Commission want political and monetary union which means a common currency, adoption of the stability and growth pact, and ultimately tax and benefit convergance. Those aims all have potential consequences for the UK every bit as uncomfortable as Brexit yet are barely mentioned by the likes of Tony Blair or John Major.