How did we get to a situation where truth and facts appear to be disposable entities and opposing viewpoints are clung onto with aggressive and closed-minded hostility? Politicians have always lied and humanity for millennia have fought over the ‘we’re right and you’re wrong’ scenario, especially in religious conflicts. But those tendencies have magnified to a pathological degree in recent times.
‘The late US senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan used to say: “You’re entitled to your own opinion, but you’re not entitled to your own facts.” But that distinction seems to have broken down. Now people regard facts as very much like opinions: you can discard the ones you don’t like.’ [URL: goo.gl/2Ox0Zy]
Part of it can be ascribed to the emergence of the internet which gave free rein and a free platform to vicious trolls and conspiracy theorists, letting loose an underbelly of anger and wild fantasy. Plus admittedly more beneficial things.
The WWW was launched on 6 August 1991 with a highly-strung Uranus Neptune North Node in Capricorn trine Mars in Virgo, sextile Pluto in Scorpio. Uranus Neptune can be inspired leading to advances in social thinking, science and art, but what the combination can lack is common sense. With no Earth grounding and thus no limits, it can rise to magnificent achievements; or it can foster irrational fanatical thinking, so extreme that it misleads. Uranus Neptune is impervious to rational discussion since it clings onto its vision/ideas even when faced with evidence to the contrary. Mars Pluto Uranus in aspect can be transcendentally enraged, brutal, explosive, especially with an immoveable Fixed Pluto on the midpoint.
The downside of Neptune can be destructive as well as oddly powerful and almost impossible to argue with.
The tendency to shut out opposing views is only likely to worsen as Saturn Pluto draws closer. In the 20th Century Saturn Pluto was around through the birth and rise of fascism first in Italy on a Saturn Pluto conjunction in Cancer; and then the rise of Hitler on the back of the Saturn Pluto opposition in 1932 which also saw the early BNP spawned in the UK which was later reformed on the Saturn Pluto conjunction in the early 1980s. Saturn Pluto comes round reasonably regularly in hard aspect so its function won’t be to precipitate radical shifts, but it will consolidate what other influences have initiated.
Fascism which went hand in hand with an obsession for nationalist identity had/has a peculiar mindset based on delusional narcissism. There is a false idealization of the self, a delusional grandiosity which seeks to sweep away the past and forge a future entirely of its own creation. It’s a group delusion where those who do not think as the group does are excluded, harassed, killed or declared insane. It entertains no doubt or uncertainty and distorts the views of opponents to render them less intelligible and credible. They have to be discredited because no separation of view is possible from the accepted one. They are smeared, denigrated, caricatured and then deleted from mind. It’s us or them, black or white, no room for middle ground. Or for complex thinking which can appreciate there is good and bad in the same situation or person.
Keeping an open mind and admitting to mistaken opinions as new information comes to light is no easy matter, harder for some temperaments than others. It’s more difficult in an atmosphere where the ‘true believers’ rain bile on the heads of anyone who dares disagree and dismiss any new facts as fakes, false flags and the like – and never EVER admit they were wrong, even way down the line after events have conclusively trounced them. But all the more important, as Michelle Obama, said not to stoop to their level but stand firm for truth and real facts and, even more importantly, decency. And if there’s one thing Saturn Pluto is helpful for, it’s grit and perseverance in the face of repression and suppression.
Roll on Jupiter Saturn in Aquarius in 2021.
In this situation (US politics) both sides are blind. Both sides denounce the other as wrong, as putting forth false information, and as having fascistic views. Remember the uranus in the WWW start is also conjunct Neptune. Planet of illusion, delusion. When Michelle Obama says “we won’t stoop to their level”, suggesting those who disagree with her are bereft of sense and reason, those on the other side are thinking the same thing -about her.
I am always pleading for balance. To remember empathy, and that those who disagree with you (especially those who voted for Hillary, denouncing Trump voters) are not senseless monsters seeking destruction.
Wholly dismissing any group of people, leads to their dehumanization. When you remove a person’s humanity, you can do anything to them -they aren’t human! Horrific events occur when you think you are right, the others are absolutely wrong, aren’t sensible and may not even be people.
Blind.
Did you read Michelle Obama’s speech? Useful to see the context.
The Obama’s advice to their daughters: “How we urge them to ignore those who question their father’s citizenship or faith. How we insist that this hateful language they hear form public figures on TV does not represent the true spirit of this country. How we explain that when someone is cruel or acts like a bully you don’t stoop to their level.
I feel it so personally, and I’m sure that many of you do too, particularly the women. The shameful comments about our bodies. The disrespect of our ambitions and intellect. The belief that you can do anything you want to a woman.
It is cruel. It’s frightening. And the truth is, it hurts. It hurts. It’s like that sick, sinking feeling you get when you’re walking down the street minding your own business and some guy yells out vulgar words about your body. Or when you see that guy at work that stands just a little too close, stares a little too long, and makes you feel uncomfortable in your own skin.
It’s that feeling of terror and violation that too many women have felt when someone has grabbed them, or forced himself on them and they’ve said no but he didn’t listen —something that we know happens on college campuses and countless other places every single day. It reminds us of stories we heard from our mothers and grandmothers about how, back in their day, the boss could say and do whatever he pleased to the women in the office, and even though they worked so hard, jumped over every hurdle to prove themselves, it was never enough.
We thought all of that was ancient history, didn’t we? And so many have worked for so many years to end this kind of violence and abuse and disrespect, but here we are, in 2016, and we’re hearing these exact same things every day on the campaign trail. We are drowning in it. And all of us are doing what women have always done: We’re trying to keep our heads above water, just trying to get through it, trying to pretend like this doesn’t really bother us maybe because we think that admitting how much it hurts makes us as women look weak.
Maybe we’re afraid to be that vulnerable. Maybe we’ve grown accustomed to swallowing these emotions and staying quiet, because we’ve seen that people often won’t take our word over his. Or maybe we don’t want to believe that there are still people out there who think so little of us as women. Too many are treating this as just another day’s headline, as if our outrage is overblown or unwarranted, as if this is normal, just politics as usual.”
Can you explain to me why anyone would think her bereft of reason on the basis of the above?
“Madeira”, Your post is a mass of contradictions. You dissed Michelle Obama with gusto, then make a plea for balance and empathy. You say “wholly dismissing any group of people leads to their dehumanization”, then you “especially” point to Hillary voters who you say “denounce” Trump. Since you didn’t say who these Hillary voters are, you implied all of them.
After singling out Ms. Obama and Ms. Clinton, you lead us right into a dehumanizing maze that has the phrases “they aren’t human!” and “aren’t sensible and may not even be people”. Psy-op, but you aren’t even good at it.
As it says in the Bible, remove the mote from your own eye.
ElenaJ, I hope you live a long life, so you will see the day when Obama is acknowledged as the exceptionally fine President that our nation didn’t even deserve. Or, at least, that you didn’t deserve.
“There is a false idealization of the self, a delusional grandiosity which seeks to sweep away the past and forge a future entirely of its own creation. It’s a group delusion where those who do not think as the group does are excluded, harassed, killed or declared insane. It entertains no doubt or uncertainty and distorts the views of opponents to render them less intelligible and credible. They have to be discredited because no separation of view is possible from the accepted one. They are smeared, denigrated, caricatured and then deleted from mind. It’s us or them, black or white, no room for middle ground. Or for complex thinking which can appreciate there is good and bad in the same situation or person.”
Perfectly describes the Obama regime.!
More to point, it accurately describes any paternal/militant regime, across many times and many countries.
What makes you feel Drompf is a shining star, exempt from the description?
larryc, if ElenaJ does answer your question, it will be the perfect example of what Marjorie delineated in her original post.
Add ElenaJ’s Obama comment for an additional fillip of Uranus/Neptune, with possibility of a Mars/Pluto/Uranus retort from her.