Ructions in the UK Labour Party are threatening to pull it apart with resignations from prominent members over Jeremy Corbyn’s shambolic defence against accusations of anti-Semitism. And considerable unease about the far left taking over constituency parties, threatening to de-select MPs who don’t toe their line. The grassroots largely support Corbyn while the Parliamentary Labour Party is less enamoured. Though there’s no real heart for forming a breakaway party.
The two Labour Party charts – 27 February 1900 and 12 February 1906 – are both considerably stressed over this year and next. The 1906 chart has tr Saturn in hard aspect to Uranus in Capricorn opposition Neptune in Cancer square Mars in Aries till late this year; as well as a couple of Neptune sinkers till after New Year; and more upsets in 2019 and disappointments. It won’t be back on a high till 2022/23 when tr Pluto trines the Jupiter.
The 1900 chart is being undermined by tr Neptune opposition Pluto till early 2019 and up against major frustrations and anger from 2018 till late 2020. Though it’ll start an upswing in 2020/21.
Assuming the earlier chart is the party itself and the 1906 is the Parliamentary Party, then the relationship between them will stay at boiling point till 2020 at least, so no sign of a détente.
Jeremy Corbyn’s relationship to both is highly controlling so will be difficult to split without a good deal of bitterness and rancor. But tr Saturn is doing its best to widen the gulf in 2019, so he could leave.
His leadership chart is at aggravation-screeching point this December to mid February 2019; and then from late March looks perilously unstable as tr Pluto starts to square the Uranus, on and off till late 2020. So somewhere along the way he’ll almost certainly be walking the plank.
It’s crazy given the lamentable state of the government that the opposition is in an even worse mess.
Oh wow, what was interesting astrology has now been subverted by the labour camp. Ho hum, you would do better to push for a new leader Gregory, you know one who can govern for all of his country, not just the activist left wing. You know it is not often we get great astrology analysis for free online of this calibre.
Dear Delia,
Thank you for taking the time to reply to this current thread.
‘You know it is not often we get great astrology analysis for free online of this calibre.’ I agree with you and long may the good works of this site continue. But good as it is, that does not mean that there is not room for comment or debate.
In order to respond to your other comments, I need to add some background.
I work in Risk Management, Compliance and Global Planning. This is in the Oil, Gas and Power Industry.
Part of my job is Contingency Planning and trying to map out the future.
One of the unconventional, non-business tools that I use to scan the economic environment, is to read and follow some astrology writers. To get a useful alternative to the ‘hard data’ and performance indices that I usually work with. To try and get an alternative feel for the future and not to just rely upon number-crunching and analytical forecasting tools.
Hence the reason why I read and follow Marjorie Orr and a number of other highly rated astrologers, here and around the world.
My industry and firms like mine are going to have to take some hard decisions in the coming weeks and months which may require us to partly or wholly move to Europe. We may have to let a lot of our people go in the UK. Make them unemployed or move them on to a different type of business contract. This will impact upon them and their families for quite some considerable time.
That will not be easy, but may have to be done. We are a business and have to make a profit and answer to our shareholders.
My concern, as a businessman and employer is that Jeremy Corbyn and the Labour Party seem to be the only party currently putting out policy ideas and initiatives, while his opponents spend their time attacking him.
No one seems to be coming up with any coherent alternatives and effectively questioning him or challenging him on policy. Putting him on the spot and giving him a run for his money.
Whether they are good ones or not he seems to have policies, which don’t seem to be challenged, countered or explored.
The Conservative Party seem to be gripped by an internal civil war, with many hostile to their own party leader Theresa May. The Liberal Democrats seem to be asleep.
The mainstream media in the UK don’t seem to be doing their job and just assume that Jeremy Corbyn will just implode and disappear. Politics and life do not always work that way. People come on the scene for a reason and until that reason is fully addressed they don’t go away.
We in business and in my line of work, need to know, and have to know what is the likelihood of Mrs. Theresa May or her successor, surviving or winning a future election. We also have to calculate what is the possibility and risk of the Opposition Party winning and how this will directly impact upon our business. Continuity v Adaptation.
The same scenario occurred in the US in 2016, and no one gave Donald J Trump a prayer. People assumed that it was a done deal with Hillary Clinton. But he had a message and she did not. He got his vote out. Hers stayed at home. He is now the 45th US President of America, she is not.
The latest polls, depending on which one you believe give both parties a lead, but as a decision-maker, I have to take very seriously the possibility that Labour might win, if there is to be a General Election within the next eighteen months. Which I believe is possible. Perhaps as early as October 2018 and maybe by May 2019 after the UK exit in March of next year.
I cannot make contingency plans based on the fact that many people do not like him because of his alleged personal beliefs. The current polls do not suggest that this is impacting upon him. This may change, we shall see. But on current trends, it is not beyond the realms of possibility that he may form a minority government, a coalition government or secure a tiny majority.
The political reality will be that if Jeremy Corbyn were to win, his government would become very similar to that of Harold Wilson’s Labour Governments of 1964-66 and 1966-1970. Politics and events makes all politicians bend irrespective of their viewpoint. He will move to the centre because he will have to and thus abandon some of his cherished policies and disappoint some of his ardent supporters.That is political life.
However, the parallels that I see in the UK with the US, is that the UK may find itself with an unexpected new leader, if they do not focus, concentrate and take him seriously.
I recently spoke to an astrologer, last week who explained to me the importance of the star Regulus. Some of you may be familiar with this star. I am not.
As I understand it, this star can be a kingmaker. She also pointed out to me that Donald Trump has the planet Mars conjunct this star and Jeremy Corbyn has Saturn conjoined to it.
What this means, astrologically, perhaps one of you can reply and tell me. I would be curious to know. If someone has some insight upon this star, I would like to hear it. I want to know whether this will have any bearing on his future prospects or not. So if you know about this star I would like to know more, as it sounds quite an important player in the field of astrology.
However, as a decision-maker, at the back of my mind is the possibility that he could replicate Donald J Trump’s political success in the US. I am not saying that he will, I don’t know, but until and unless people start to address the positives and negatives of all the political contenders and give a clear assessment, one has to expect the unexpected.
We in business will continue and thrive, because there is always a business solution or political model we can adapt to or modify to our advantage. So he poses no existential threat to our long-term business, because the nature of business is to adapt or die. This we will do. We just need to have an accurate probability assessment of all the main political players. That is all we need, the rest is just background noise and political froth.
So, Delia, please do not judge a book by its cover and assume that I am a political subversive with an axe to grind. I am a businessman who wishes to create wealth and maintain added value. For myself, my staff and my shareholders. Knowing who is going to win or succeed helps me in my calculations.
I want good government, irrespective of whichever party is in power. I want some degree of stability and certainty and that comes from knowing and understanding the competing policies and not being bombarded with dogma and mantra. We in business always work with the Government of the Day, whomever that may be.
I also do not want to see a lot of good people and colleagues lose their jobs and livelihoods because of lazy research and slip-shod analysis. So I repeat myself, I want to be able to make sound long-term judgements based on facts and fair analysis.
I think that astrology can be just as useful a tool in the planning mix, as reading a spreadsheet or a Balance Sheet. That is why I and some of my staff take the time to read many of these sites, to get a feel and general mood for the times. To accurately assess the political temperature.
I don’t know these people and I don’t have to like either Jeremy Corbyn or Theresa May; but I have to understand their polices and their possible impact upon my industry and my staff. So help me to help them, by just being ‘fair and balanced,’ to borrow a phrase from the US Fox News Network.
Once again, thank you for taking the time to reply. You have given me an unexpected opportunity to broaden the debate and put my views in context.
Thank you Delia for giving me that opportunity.
Gregory, Ms. Orr is a businesswoman and has astrological services you can purchase that will answer your specific questions. She is not a fortune teller or psychic.
Hillary Clinton received 4 million more votes than Trump. Her supporters came out in a huuuge mass that equaled all of Trump’s votes plus millions and millions more. If you want Jeremy to have Trump’s success, you need to contact Putin in Russia.
Gregory, This year on Gaza – UNRWA 23 June 2018
Gaza bloodbath May 16 2018
Gaza deaths – March 30 2018.
All of these are findable on the search function.
Masses from the years before back to the late 2000s with a running commentary on the Gaza war so called – Israeli all-out attack.
Spare me the contempt Gregory. I never understand – well I do, it’s just an irritation – why all adulatory political fan clubs always insist that astrological predictions are slanted to fit my preferences when they don’t fit with their expectations.
Moi, hawkish right-wing? No one has ever accused me of that before. I’ve written ad nauseam in outrage over the treatment of the Palestinians. Israel from square one walked itself up a cul-de-sac from which there is no return – and were allowed to do so by an indifferent and craven international response. And various Israeli leaders have obscenely used the Holocaust as a manipulative defence when any criticism was/is raised.
Ditto the treatment of Roman Catholics in Ireland though I have no love for the Vatican. From personal preference I’d prefer to see a united Ireland and let them get on with it.
All that whataboutery (lovely expression) when any criticism is raised about the can-do-no-wrong idol which points to wrong doings elsewhere rather makes the point.
Sure I dislike communism – what choked me off most about it was when the wall fell down it turned out all the saintly leaders had been living it up in their palatial weekend dashas while the poor serfs had been slogging away upholding what they thought was the Marxist ideal. And Putin continuing on from his KGB days is running a gangster capitalist state.
Anyways we’ll leave Corbyn till the party conference and beyond. Next year will be wobbly, like it or not.
Dear Marjorie,
Thank you for your recent post.
I enjoyed reading it.
One thing that I do not have for you is contempt.
You are very good at what you do and are very skilled at weaving an effective, plausible political narrative with astrological analysis. Your skilled background in journalism shows in your writings. I applaud you for that.
That is why I reply on a regular basis. To try and counter some of this skilled artistry and sophistication.
‘Moi, hawkish right-wing? No one has ever accused me of that before.’
I have never, to date seen or read any of your pro-Palestinian outrage pieces. Could you please reproduce them? I would like to read them.
Likewise, I would like you to reproduce your articles about Israeli indifference. Again, I would like to read them.
Can you do this please?
As for next year being wobbly, I suspect 2019 will be wobbly for a lot of politicians of all stripes. All that I ask from you is to highlight the good along with the bad for all politicians.
Once again, thank you for taking the time to reply. I enjoy the fact that you are prepared to fight your corner. That is what healthy debate is all about.
I look forward to the next instalment of your Jeremy Corbyn astrological analysis, along with that of Theresa May, Sir Vince Cable and Nigel Farage, who seems to be making some form of political comeback, via Brexit.
Once again, thank you for your reply.
Gregory, I have learnt a lot from Marjorie, including some pieces on the plight of the Palestinians which I might have otherwise missed. Not everyone fits into a neat left/right box. I do think Corbyn gets a hard time from the media and I don’t think he’s racist, but that doesn’t stop me questioning if he could have done more to stamp out the anti-Semitic lunatic fringe, no matter how tiny, because it’s totally unacceptable. Less about left/right and being hawkish or not, more about balance, nuance and high standards for public office.
Marjorie, I suppose Corbyn represents hope for a lot of people and they cling to it. Maybe the same with the Indy Ref and Trump as well. Of course, he’ll let them down because he’s only human. We’re here because media and politicians failed to see the glass wall Carole Cadwalladr wrote about. David Cameron and Ed Miliband kicked all this off, two professional politicians who didn’t have a clue what was going on. Cameron’s only other job was as a TV PR bloke and he couldn’t even judge the demographics right before promising a referendum. Understanding demography and popular sentiment was the one transferable skill he should have had!
These days everyone is frustrated with each other, that they don’t see what they see or “get it”. It sometimes looks like class war or some sort of battle of education v’s experience, when both are valuable. I’m not sure if that dichotomy falls neatly either side of the glass wall, but we definitely have a problem with gross inequality that needs to be addressed. A spell living on a council estate should be mandatory for anyone wanting to because a government minister as much as an education at Eton and Oxbridge seems to be now.
Centrism plus capitalism on the Tory side sold off all the assets, including social housing stock. Centrism plus capitalism on the Labour side let borrowing get out of control and pushed house prices out of control. Decades of centrism and capitalism, under both banners, has produced gross inequality where people are now paying out more than 50% of their shrinking wages in ever increasing rents. “At least we’re not like Venezuela or putting up with stiking coal miners and power cuts like the 1970’s” isn’t much comfort to someone working extremely long hours and still not able to fully feed their kids. If we can’t come up with a better solution for inequality, there will always be others who will come along and politcally exploit it.
I
The people’s disillusionment with government and mainstream politics has been fomenting for many years now. Both the Iraqi war and the financial crisis of 2008 were events in which ordinary people suffered while the perpetrators remained untouched and unaccountable. Plus we now have in the UK at least the wholesale privatisation of previously state run institutions such as prisons, schools, even elderly care and children’s homes, institutions run ‘on the cheap’ in order to save money, yet make money for the private corporations that run them. It is reminiscent of the inter-war years of the 20s and 30s with financial instability rife, austerity and the traumatic effects of the war on the collective. It should come as no surprise that mavericks such as Jeremy Corbyn or Nigel Farage represent hope for certain people. We see this lurch to a more radical or extreme politics during such times, particularly when a country is polarised to such an extent as ours is under Brexit. I don’t judge people for supporting men like Corbyn or Farage, but I see them as figures who have emerged from the bedrock of disillusionment and lack of faith and sheer desperation that so many people feel as a result of government failure to value the lives and contributions of ordinary people who feel unrepresented, voiceless and powerless. Agree with a lot of your points, tara.
I disagree with Corbyn on many things, chief among them his weak opposition of Brexit and I’m not sure about him as PM either. However, I’m not as convinced as most of you that he’s racist (I stand to be corrected with evidence). I think he’s made some terrible errors of judgement that he needs to be honest about. Good judgement, when to be part of the action and when not, this is the forte of the Cardinal signs, which he lacks apart from Neptune – says it all really. I imagine having Neptune as the only Cardinal sign could cause confusion about how one’s actions are interpreted, not ideal for a politician, though on the flip side after years of media trained, party whipped drones I can see how this may make him seem like a breath of fresh air to many.
I do wish more analysis of the political part being played in the UK Brexit crisis was focused upon the recent history of Northern Ireland.
Specifically, the failure to create civic equality by the peaceful protests of the now largely forgotten cross community Northern Irish Civil Rights Association (NICRA). Just as the heinous iniquities against the Irish of the one party British partition unionist rule were being highlighted by these civil protests, the ultra unionist reactionary establishment of the DUP under Ian Paisley from 1971 and subsequent to the deaths incurred by Bloody Sunday British state violence, a new violence based wing of the IRA under Gerry Adams, served to destroy NICRA and any possibility of peaceful political reform.
As the intransigent ideologies of both of these British home grown Troubles engendered extreme sectarian political parties are now playing a central role in destroying the United Kingdom from within, I find it extraordinary that there has been no real investigative astrology or journalism on this issue.
A Not unimportant fact, is that the hardcore leadership within the DUP, now holding the balance of power in the Brexit UK polity, as Christian fundamentalist extremists, have always been extreme Zionist supporters, seeing themselves as fellow traveller British Israelites, and therein also descended of the ancient tribe of Judah.
Agree the DUP is beyond bizarre and repellent in this day and age. Not sure what kind of astro-analysis you have in mind. In one sense the Northern Ireland troubles were peculiar to Irish history with the old style Catholic-Protestant split still alive and kicking which it isn’t on the UK mainland. Having been dragged up protestant I have a peculiar loathing for the Ian Paisley mindset and the DUP. They remind me of the Dutch Reform Church in apartheid-era South SAfrica mixed in with nutjob US evangelicals. The Vatican grip is loosening fast with scandals that just keep on rolling. Even the Republic is kicking over the old RC stranglehold. But a century’s worth of blood feuding runs deep. And against the DUP, reason and common sense meet a brickwall of self-righteous stupidity. Might as well argue with Trump or Pence.
I just can’t work out the mechanism for him going. Only the membership can force him out and most of them joined in the last couple of years specifically to support him. This type are not traditional labour party members and they believe Corbyn can do no wrong.
To be honest neither can I. But usually on a term chart when Pluto meets Uranus its fall-off-perch time
Not being in The UK, it eludes me how this happened, to begin with? It almost seems like cult of personality. It’s beyond me how this can happen in a major party in a Western Democracy, with a working base organization. I guess some of this could be because Tony Blair destroyed that already for Labour. “Traditional” Labour base left field work circa 2002.
That said, Corbyn’s bad months seem to coincide with Brexit. I suppose that Working Class / Lower Middle Class who may not be happy with either party at the moment, but who are “definitely not Torys” will become more aware on how Brexit will affect them by December. And they might question Corbyn for being essentially a Brexiter, and not pushing May Government hard enough here.
Solaia if you have time to read it, this article about is one that I found very insightful. It is a few years old now, from the time that he was first elected leader, but it does a great job of conveying the feelings and spirit leading up to it. I like the “glass walls” metaphor.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/aug/09/blair-corbyn-islington-north-london-labour
it happened because Ed Miliband changed the leadership election rules from the unions, members and MPs each having an equal say, to the leader only being voted for by the members, from candidates with the support of at least 15% of MPs. At the same time he said anyone could join for £3.
Corbyn didn’t have the support of 15% of MPs but some foolishly lent him their vote so there could be a “wider range of candidates”. Then there was organised wide scale entryism from the hard left and Corbyn won. Saying that, I think a lot of the traditional members found it refreshing to hear the authentic voice of the left to begin with.
Corbyn does not have the support of most of his parliamentary colleagues but the rule changes mean that he can lose a vote of no confidence, stand again and be re-elected by the membership. This has already happened once. Effectively, he cannot be made to go unless the membership become disillusioned. The EU seems to be the one issue capable of causing such a rift.
Dear Marjorie,
Thank you for yet another interesting piece on Jeremy Corbyn. That ‘somewhere along the way he’ll almost certainly be walking the plank’.
The current polls suggest that despite the continual and continued attack by the mainstream, right-wing media, Labour is still hovering around 37 – 40%. This support cannot all be Corbynistas backing their man, surely?
Recent research undertaken by the UK Media suggests also that a minimum of about 5% of the Conservative base will not vote for the ‘Chequers Compromise,’ under any circumstances and that is on top of the 6% who have jumped ship and fled to UKIP. This Conservative ‘hardcore’, who hate ‘Chequers’, will sit on their hands and not vote for any other party. They will stay at home and do something else, instead.
Given that their party is currently running roughly neck-and-neck with Labour and they seem pretty determined to oppose ‘Chequers’, will this be enough to swing the vote Labour’s way? Will their ‘Chequers’ opposition vote outweigh those in Labour who will not vote because of the anti-semitism row?
Is the EU more of an existential issue to British Conservatives than the anti-semtisim row? Because this is what it really boils down to at the next General Election: Brexit v Anti-Semitism. Which is more important to the nation as a whole? Their future role and direction in the world; or the role and relationship of British Jewry within the United Kingdom?
Will it be Jeremy Corbyn before Theresa May, or will she likely face a possible putsch this month during her party conference, or soon after March 29 2019? While Jeremy may still be watching and waiting on the sidelines, with the right-wing media, the Blairites and Gordon Brown still snapping at his heels?
Assuming that she does go suddenly, the same research suggests that Boris Johnson and Jacob-Rees-Mogg are not that popular with the nation as a whole, although beloved by their Conservative grassroots. If the parliamentary Conservatives have their way, Boris’ name will not even be on the final two-person Leadership Contest ballot. This is the view of William, now Lord Hague.They will choose a team player and someone that they can work with and that they like, even if this individual proves to be unpopular with the Tory grassroots rank-and-file.
This will be happening in the midst of the British people and the Labour Conference attempting to get the Labour NEC to back a ‘People’s Vote’ on the EU and get Jeremy Corbyn to change his mind.
Heaven help his critics if he changes his mind and agrees to a second referendum. Cue political hysteria and media meltdown. Jeremy Corbyn will be again in step with the people and looking good to walk up and through Number 10 Downing Street within the year.
Don’t forget also that he wants to reduce the BBC’s TV Licence and get the Tech Firms to pay up and pay their fair share.
So a Second Vote and a reduced TV Licence Fee hardly sound like vote-losers to most people. I bet a lot of non-Corbyn supporters would welcome a cut or reduction in their annual TV Tax.
Even Arlene Foster of the Northern Ireland DUP wanted the TV Licence to be abolished.
Jeremy Corbyn’s real media problem is that he needs to denounce the Palestinians and ‘The Two State Solution’, and agree to them never having a homeland. Then he would become a media darling and beloved by all the Blairites and right-wing media.
If he stops talking about Palestine and only recognises Israel, and refuses to criticise them, then he will be given some political peace. But, alas Jeremy Corbyn is stubborn and principled. He won’t back down. Astrologically, I would say that he must have Taurus close to or on his Midheaven, because he just doesn’t seem that phased and his party’s support has not really been moved all that much.
Despite and in spite of all the venomous vitriol from the right, people still seem to support him and don’t seem that keen to disown him. Oh the perils of being such an honest man…
Rabbi Jonathan Sacks, talks about Mr Corbyn having to recant and some British Jews leaving the UK. How realistic is that?
Those who mean it will probably be in the midst of leaving, as I write this piece, or have already left. Actions, speak louder than words.
Can they go to Germany, with the current AfD doing well and the real lurch to the right currently taking place? I doubt it. Angela Merkel will not stay forever. Going to Germany will be very precarious and dangerous proposition, post-Merkel.
Go to Israel? I doubt if many of them will go. Too dangerous and unpredictable. A war could break out with heavy casualties on both sides. Some will go, but not all. Going to the United States, with all the current political uncertainties there? Again, no.
Spain or Portugal? Unless they get some special political dispensation and with the current headache and hassles of Brexit, I doubt that also.
So what is to be done?
In the end most of the British Jewry will just stay in the UK, whether Jeremy Corbyn is in office or not. There really is nowhere else for them to go.
As for leaving the Labour Party, only 15% of British Jewry voted for Ed Miliband in the 2015 General Election, suggesting that many British Jews tended to vote Conservative, anyway.
So much of this conversation is just political hot air, posturing and annoyance that Jeremy Corbyn will not give Israel a free hand and turn a blind eye to their treatment of the Palestinian people.
In the end, the real calculation will be political.
Will Theresa May or whoever follows her, be able to get out their base?
If she sticks to her word and won’t budge on ‘Chequers’, then the answer is no.
Will Jeremy Corbyn be able to get his base? Yes. Especially if he agrees to a second EU Vote. If he does, then it is political game over. There is no way that the young and the ‘Just About Managing’, will not come out and vote Labour.
If the Conservatives come out and say that they will also keep the TV Licence or agree to it’s increase, they might as well concede defeat now and call it a day.
Theresa May has a message her party and right-wing does not want to hear.
If she runs or is allowed to stand for another General Election, she will be in a similar political predicament that Hillary Clinton found herself in and faced in November 2016. The base will simply not come out and vote for her in sufficient numbers for her to win.
Boris and Jacob, on the other hand, have a message that the nation and people like centre-right Tories such as Justine Greening do not want to hear. The Scottish do not like it nor do the people of Northern Ireland. They voted to stay within the EU in June 2016. They are even prepared to leave The UK Union if necessary. Ask former First Minister of Northern Ireland, Peter Robinson
If anyone is tearing itself apart, it is the Conservative Party. Along with the country.
Just how much we will see at their annual party conference, this month. If she survives that, we will see how long she lasts after March 29, 2019. Whether a year from now she will still be the UK Prime Minister.
I wonder if her recent dancing in South Africa and Kenya was her saying to herself, ‘What the heck? I might as well enjoy myself now, because I won’t get this chance again, any time soon. If I decide to ‘come dancing’ in this part of the world again, I will have to come as a private citizen. What the heck? Let me let my hair down, enjoy myself and let the Brexit chips fall where they [Theresa]may. You only live once.’
“If he stops talking about Palestine and only recognises Israel, and refuses to criticise them, then he will be given some political peace. But, alas Jeremy Corbyn is stubborn and principled. He won’t back down. Astrologically, I would say that he must have Taurus close to or on his Midheaven, because he just doesn’t seem that phased and his party’s support has not really been moved all that much.”
I have to point out that being supportive of Two State Solution or critical of Netanyahu Government is not the issue with Corbyn, and definitely not the reason for him being called out as antisemite. Two State Solution is the mainstream solution that almost all external Governments, including many Conservative parties and Israeli, have supported since the 1990’s. In fact, radical left has been advocating on One State Solution, where Palestinians would be granted full citizenship rights in Israel. That would mean Palestinians would outnumber Jewish population. Two State Solution is largely dead at the moment due to Netanyahu Government’s aggressive settlement politics and the fools in WH being clueless and guided by certain right wing Israeli lobbies.
Even more shockingly, he seems to condone Palestinian terrorism. Most pro-Palestinian politicians in Europe have extremely uneasy relationship to Hezbollah and Hamas leaderships, prefering Fatah as their counterpart, because these organizations have still extensive terrorist operations in Lebanon. Corbyn called these people his “friends”. Also, most people would be hesitant to commemorate Black September members who were part of Munich massacre in any positive way (Ammar Campa-Najjar, suddenly with a chance to bring California 50th District to Democrats, would know, since he was attacked on his grandfather’s he never met involvement in all that), but Corbyn took part to a wrath laying on their graves.
And, these aren’t things that happened in the 1980’s, either, but just a couple of years ago. As such, I can say he definitely comes across as much more anti-Israeli than most Palestinian advocates in Europe these days.
It’s not just Corbyn’s anti-Semitism which in his case is taken to ludicrous almost Illuminati lengths – the focus of his hatred of capitalism of which the Jewish money men are seen as the driving force. It’s his v old fashioned ‘useful idiot’ pro-Russia stance which would make him a real security risk. I doubt he’s changed his mind much about anything since his twenties. And neither of the above will wash any more. Not that his fans take much of this on board.
I have a real problem with the hardcore of his supporters. They remind me of the Trump equivalents who, with uncritical zeal regard their Great Leader as infallible. I have every sympathy with the plight of the Palestinian people, but would never share a platform with those who advocate violence as a solution.
Solaia,
Thank you for your response and reply. Jeremy Corbyn does not condone Palestinian terrorism. There is no evidence to suggest that. He supports a Palestinian State. If you have this evidence of terrorism, you need to provide it so we can see it and analyse its contents, clearly.
There is evidence though to suggest that Benjamin Netanyahu does not want a Palestinian State. There is also evidence of him supporting people prepared to use violence to achieve that aim.
The current Israeli PM pays regular homage to people like Menachem Begin, former Likud Prime Minister, but in a former incarnation, leader of The Irgun. They were a right-wing Zionist militia group, responsible for the King David Hotel attack in Jerusalem, on July 22, 1946. 91 people died, including 28 British citizens.
Yitzhak Shamir was a leader of the Zionist paramilitary group Lehi, before going on to also become an Israeli Prime Minister.
Jeremy Corbyn’s track record has been anti-Apartheid, pro a unified Ireland and pro a Palestinian State.
If people object to that, fair enough, but to equate that with anti-semitism, is just a ploy to limit or close down freedom of speech.
No country is above criticism, no matter their history or past. Israel is not the only country and the Jews are not the only people on earth with an awful undeserved past. Quoting the numbers who suffered does not make other people’s suffering less important, because their numbers do not equate with the Holocaust.
If you do not agree with his policies, fair enough, come up with an alternative view, but don’t hide behind unproven and unsubstantiated mantra. If you have have hard evidence, produce it and let us see it.
As for Marjorie’s comment about ‘his so-called hatred of capitalism,’ this is just lazy journalism and pseudo-astrology. Many people are tired and reject the continual greed and weak economic and political solutions offered by people like Tony Blair, Gordon Brown and the current Conservative Government.
As I mentioned before, people are tired of being given a poor but expensive service by Network Rail. Tired of Water Companies imposing hose-pipe water bans, but not fixing the leaking pipes in their roads. Preferring to pay their shareholders first. Tired of utilities finding ever new and inventive ways of raising money, but not the quality of the services. Carillion comes to mind. British Gas raising their prices in the middle of a blazing heatwave. BT raising their charges. The BBC demanding a TV Licence and spending vast sums of it on a duplication of staff with similar ‘cookie-cutter’ skills.
Rather than using the tired and well-worn trope of Corbyn being: ‘an old fashioned useful idiot,’ pro-Russia stance which would make him a real security risk,’ come up with a viable economic alternative to his policies.
As for being a security risk, most of the spies came from Cambridge. Burgess, Philby, MacLean and Blunt. Likewise, if anyone is pro-Russia and is a ‘useful idiot,’ you have obviously forgotten about Donald J Trump, who seems incapable of talking his way out of his current conundrum and political predicament.
If you think free-market, trickle-down economics is the way forward, have the courage of your convictions and say so and admit that you do not like Jeremy Corbyn’s economic model. If you are an economic Thatcherite, that is fine, also. There are many people who still support the late Margaret Thatcher. That is their right. Everyone does not have to agree. But don’t hide behind slogans and mantra. Come forward with an alternative to his worldview.
Jeremy Corbyn has a message and his base get it. Theresa May doesn’t and Boris Johnson has just reminded her of that today in The Daily Telegraph.
Until you address that fundamental issue of having a message, all the smearing of Jeremy Corbyn dressed up as anti-semitism or economic dogma will not cut it. People will simply tune out and continue as before. They won’t believe you and will end up quoting Trump’s ‘fake news’ at you.
The reality is that some of what Jeremy Corbyn is saying has a resonance with people who do not follow politics closely. Look to the US, the same thing. Hillary had no message and Trump did, whether you agree with building the wall or not.
If the Blairites have a message, let’s hear it. Go form your own party and let’s hear what you have to say. If it is Iraq and Public-Private Funding, then forget about. It has not worked and people will not vote for Tory-lite. Get yourself a policy, sell it to the people and wait for the results. But don’t use lazy journalism and mantra as a substitute for a lack of fresh ideas and vision. You are better than that.
A touch ingenuous Gregory. Corbyn is a Marxist so sans question he hates capitalism – which undoubtedly has its flaws but socialism a la USSR, Venezuela etc hasn’t exactly helped the poor downtrodden masses much either.
My psych-ey take on him is he thinks in black and white terms. He’s not good at complex thinking. The enemy of his enemy becomes his friend. Hates Tories, the Brit mess up in NIreland, UK Security Services and Israel’s undoubtedly appalling behaviour towards the Palestinians. So he gives absolute allegiance to any who stand against those things. Never seems to strike him that in certain instances there is good and bad on both sides, or at least a need for caution in supporting those who have turned to violence out of frustration (or those who found a convenient cause to live out their aggression).
Ye ancient Cambridge spies for Russia came out of the anti-fascist 1930s and on. Refusing to believe Putin is manipulating western elections and bumping off dissidents is blind naïvety.
It’s that Mars in Taurus square Pluto of his – do-or-die-determined, giving in means annihilation.
Dear Marjorie,
Thank you for taking the time to reply to my post.
I still do not agree with you, Marjorie.
Jeremy Corbyn hates injustice, as many people do, but unlike many, he is prepared to stand up for what he believes in and has been consistent over many years. That is why he is the bane of many people’s lives, on the political right.
Is he right about everything? Is anyone right about everything?
But he stands up for what he believes in and this is what drives people from the right mad. If only he could agree with what we on the right agree with. What an asset he would be then.
I suspect that Jeremy Corbyn is to the political right is what Margaret Thatcher was to the political left.
‘My psych-ey take on him is he thinks in black and white terms. He’s not good at complex thinking.’ I suspect that Margaret Thatcher, too, had similar issues. Especially her dislike for the Left and suggesting that ‘…There was no such thing as society…’
‘Corbyn is a Marxist so sans question he hates capitalism’. This is not a fact, this is your opinion. Asserting it without facts, does not make it any more true.
I accept that you may be a Conservative and appear to be on the hawkish wing of the party, but I would not then assert that you hate Socialism or Liberalism and then proclaim it as a fact.
Jeremy Corbyn wants to improve the lives of many who have been by-passed by the Blair/Brown/Cameron/May years in government. Tara’s earlier piece on the ‘Glass Walls’ is very apt and useful as a guide to Jeremy Corbyn’s potential appeal.
If however, people do not agree with Jeremy Corbyn’s worldview, challenge it with an alternative economic argument, but do not hide behind ‘anti-semitism’ or the ‘Venezuelan downtrodden masses.’ Do not use this and yet say nothing about the actions of the current Israeli Prime Minister and turn a blind eye to Yemen.
This is what drives the average person to distraction. The selective use of facts and events to support a particular narrative. Report everything fairly and neutrally, then people would be prepared to consider your criticisms of Jeremy Corbyn or whomever, in a more reflective light.
People want to know what you can do for them in their everyday lives, In a practical sense.
If nationalisation or reducing the TV Licence means that people have an extra few pounds in their pocket, they are prepared to consider it, whether or not it can be effective in reality or not. If it is not realistic in practice, then focus on its flaws and force him and his party to address those issues and force him to change, through force of argument. Not mantra and dogma from the right.
If you continue to attack him, as you do, from the right, irrespective of what he does, or says, then the only solution for him, is to respond in black and white, as you allude. To hunker down and prepare for the long struggle. Since you on the right will not give an inch, his supporters on the left will do likewise. Leading to an unhelpful political stalemate.
With regards to ‘The enemy of his enemy becomes his friend,’ argument, no serious attempt had been made by the right and the centre in the past and to some extent, in the present, to seriously challenge or address some of these issues that you have mentioned. This has left a political vacuum for many to fill with their own alternative theories and views.
If the issue of Palestine, as an example, is so important, than these issues should be aired across the political spectrum, but they are not. Instead, the UK sells arms to Israel and the political elite and UK Media quietly turn a blind eye to it. It brings in profits and maintains jobs for many people in the UK. Far easier to wring one’s hands and to talk about anti-semitism and nebulous issues such as Venezuela, than pursue political objectivity and balance.
Likewise with Russia, another political straw man. Vladimir Putin is a threat, and yet the UK takes Russian money and allows them to buy UK property in prime sites and locations. Russia is a threat and yet the UK sees no problem in sending the England football team to the very heart of the country, in the hope of winning the football World Cup 2018.
There were just endless media people from the UK milling around in Russia hoping that England would come away with sporting glory.
No mention or fear of Novichok or Polonium 10 for them.
No mention or hint of pulling out of the Semi-Finals against Croatia, because of the death of a UK national, the weekend before the match.
No. England had a chance of sporting greatness. Salisbury could wait.
At least the US Government had more consistency in 1980, calling for a boycott of the Moscow Games in response to the invasion of Afghanistan in 1979. No such principled stand from the UK in 2018.
With regard to the ‘Ye ancient Cambridge spies for Russia came out of the anti-fascist 1930s ‘ argument. These were Cambridge educated individuals, from privileged middle-class backgrounds who saw through the apparent hypocrisy of their class and sought impractical solutions by embracing Stalin. The very same repressive Stalin that Churchill worked with and met at Yalta in 1945.
The Cambridge Spies were still a security risk and proved to be so, by their actions. Anthony Blunt actually worked for the MI5 from 1939, only losing his Knighthood in 1979.
There is no current evidence to suggest that Jeremy Corbyn is planning to share UK secrets with a foreign power, nor that he has done so in his current capacity as a Privy Councillor.
The Daily Mail newspaper story that he might have been a Czech spy in the 1960’s, simply confirmed that ‘Fake News’ was alive and well and featured regularly in the right-wing press. The Cambridge Spies were a reality and a fact.
With regards to the 1930’s, and the UK, the majority of anti-semitism was coming from the right. The Daily Mail and The Daily Express in the 1930’s were very hostile. If you watch ‘Foyle’s War’ Episode 2 – The White Feather, with the character actor Charles Dance appearing in it, as a Mosley-type figure, it suggested an open hostility and hatred of British Jewry.
This was why the earlier Balfour Declaration of 2 November 1917 caused such a stir. The UK political Establishment tended to be pro-Arab.
Finally, you mention, ‘It’s that Mars in Taurus square Pluto of his – do-or-die-determined, giving in means annihilation.’ Given the way he is treated by the media and the right-wing, is he actually wrong in his assessment and subsequent actions?
So in conclusion, to use a footballing metaphor, play the ball and not the man.
If you do not like Jeremy Corbyn and think he is unappealing, challenge his policies, provide your own and convince the middle ground and his supporters that you have the stronger argument.
No politician or political party have a monopoly on wisdom.
Show us and him that you are right and that he is wrong with reasoned, fact-based argument. Not with visceral appeal and spurious assertions. Specious argument masquerading as fact.
If the Right’s answer to Jeremy Corbyn is Benjamin Netanyahu and Dame Margaret Hodge, then this is an argument they will never win. If the Right’s answer to Brexit is Jacob Rees-Mogg and Boris Johnson, the people will continue to demand a second referendum, ad infinitum.
Whether Jeremy Corbyn wins or not, he has left a marker as to what an alternative looks like. It is not Tony Blair. People dislike that man with a vengeance because of Iraq. In fact, many people wonder why he has never faced any official, legal questions over Iraq. Whatever Tony Blair says will always be wrong. Because of Iraq.
If you want to dislodge Jeremy Corbyn, siding with people like Dame Margaret Hodge is a fool’s errand. Benjamin Netanyahu inserting himself into UK domestic politics, recently, only increases Jeremy Corbyn’s popularity with the young and dispossessed.
Fight him with alternative arguments which have appeal. Don’t stoop to skulduggery and disinformation. Don’t let your visceral dislike of the man cloud your astrological judgement. Talk about the good and the bad and let us reflect upon your words and reach our own conclusion.
I look forward to your next posts on the subject, in light of the upcoming annual party political conferences scheduled for later this month. It will be interesting to see how you approach and tackle them, both politically and astrologically.
“The current polls suggest that despite the continual and continued attack by the mainstream, right-wing media, Labour is still hovering around 37 – 40%. This support cannot all be Corbynistas backing their man, surely?”
The other way of looking at this statement is, given how badly Brexit is going, why is Labour still tied with the Conservatives in the opinion polls and not at least 10-20% ahead.
Personally, I do not see myself ever voting for Labour under Corbyn. I have voted Labour in the past, but I cannot bring myself to vote for a “leader” who wants to dismember the state that he wants to be leader of (you have mentioned support for a united Ireland and he is alleged to support Scottish independence), reduce the military (I think it is far too small already), get rid of the nuclear weapons (along with the military reduction, madness). Ironically, given that I am no fan of the Conservatives, I am forced to vote Conservative to keep Corbyn out of No 10.
A politicians job is to reconcile different varying views. A politician who is a purist in his thoughts (that applies to Trump and Corbyn) has failed at reconciling such viewpoints. In this sense, Reagan was an exemplary politician. He could get most Democrats to vote for him while still having very defined principles.
It does not help that Corbyn’s position on Brexit is about as clear as mud. Even if he comes out in favour of one position, it is not clear that (a) his heart is in it and (b) that it will last till the end of the week.
As for the profits of the privatised companies providing services, I have lived in a socialist country (outside Europe) where all infrastructure was nationalised and the service was cheap, but extremely shite/poor. Do the privatised companies need to be more strictly regulated? Absolutely. Do the services need to be nationalised. Not on your nelly.
Dear Unmystic Mom,
Thank you for your post.
‘The other way of looking at this statement is, given how badly Brexit is going, why is Labour still tied with the Conservatives in the opinion polls and not at least 10-20% ahead.’
They are not ahead because of the continuous attacks on Jeremy Corbyn and the Labour Party from the right-wing media. Once impartiality rules came into force in June 2017, Labour was able to close the gap.
A similar situation will occur at the next General Election.
The issue will be which is more important to the British people currently? Brexit or the issue of anti-semitism? Also other domestic issues will come into play, so a much broader political canvas will be drawn.
Many Conservatives are hostile to Theresa May, over Brexit, so the next election will be just as tight and may result in a similar outcome. She and her party are not guaranteed victory. That is what the current polls continue to suggest.
This is likely whether she is there or not.
Jeremy Corbyn does not need to do anything on Brexit, since it is the Conservatives that are in government and their job to manage Brexit and UK exit from the EU.
His job is to ensure that what has been agreed in June 2016 is honoured and protected. Thus far he is trying to do so.
‘Reagan was an exemplary politician.’ You have obviously forgotten about the Iran-Contra Scandal and Oliver North. In this regard, Reagan was very much a political an ideological purist.