Well there’s a surprise – the EU digging in their heels. Actually it’s not. What was more of a surprise were the emollient words coming from the EU before the Salzburg Summit raising false hopes which didn’t fit with any of the UK politicians’ charts.
Theresa May looks poleaxed and devastated despite her customary stalwart utterances. She has tr Pluto square her Sun/Neptune midpoint this month and next over the Party Conference – Ebertin describes that as ‘a tragic deception or illusion.’ With perhaps a jolting shock from Solar Arc Uranus conjunct her Sun.
Her Government chart is also in convulsions from a nervous crisis with tr Uranus conjunct the Sun/Neptune now till mid October; with a bad-tempered setback in the first half of October over the conference with tr Saturn square the Mars.
Theresa May is pretty much all downhill over coming months till late 2019 – hopes dashed, undermined, frustrated, powerless. If she goes, I’d hazard a guess at April 2019 onwards, just after either a hard Brexit or a mushy fudge to extend the agony for another two years. Dominic Raab, her negotiator, looks even more squelched than she does until late 2019.
Olly Robbins, the senior civil servant, who seems to be the senior hand on the wheel, is being battered every which way through October, November and early 2019 with tr Uranus conjunct his Sun and opposition his Pluto. But seems in better shape than the two above – golden pension pot to fall back on and a glittering City job, no doubt.
Philip May, who as chief PM domestic support might give a clue, is looking totally crushed this November and December as is his lady wife and Raab. So either the whole thing is shot or they trail miserably on, praying for a miracle.
Her relationship with Donald Tusk, President of the European Council, who’s been fairly aggressive and contemptuous, is mutually upsupportive at best and being kicked around like a football through this autumn and on till mid 2019.
Yanis Varoufakis was right in his advice not to negotiate at all with the EU – waste of time. Though it would undoubtedly have helped if the Brexiteers had understood let alone explained the complexities and costs of backing out of 40 years of agreements.
As to the nation chart, I’m none to wiser than I was the last time.
Tr Saturn is conjunct the UK and EU Sun 21st to 28 December this year, which certainly looks downbeat and could indicate a breakdown of talks.
On 29 March 2019 tr Saturn will oppose the UK 10th house Moon exactly and conjunct the EU Secondary Progressed Mars also exactly. So it could come to a hard split with the UK feeling isolated; and the EU irritable since they won’t get their money and various continental businesses including German will be tearing their hair at the disruption.
The EU certainly looks in financial meltdown with Solar Arc Pluto conjunct their 2nd house Neptune, exact in 8 months’ time, though in effect beforehand.
On the UK chart as well on 29 March 2019 tr Uranus is square the Jupiter for a moment of relief – though whether that means freedom or a deal isn’t obvious. Solar Arc Pluto is within less than a degree of being conjunct the UK Ascendant (taking back control). Politicians are certainly massively unpopular with Solar Arc Moon exactly opposition the 11th house Saturn (legislature and future plans) which is hardly a surprise given how hapless the entire bunch have been across the spectrum. But there aren’t the catastrophic economic upheavals you might expect to see with the chaos of a hard Brexit until 2021. Though the Bank of England will be on disaster-watch.
It was always going to go down to the wire and over. But with TMay being intransigent and anyway stuck with an unsolvable conundrum vis a vis Northern Ireland, it’s difficult to see where an agreement could come from.
Thank you for great analysis and a very interesting thread of comments. That’s interesting about the 1927 UK, it makes perfect sense. I shall paste in my astro journal notes (mostly a personal case study in to retrogrades as much as anything) in case anyone is interested…
Tending to focus mainly on the EU chart, as it’s the EU that’s the one changing by losing a member (that’s not to say that it will be the most affected economically or otherwise). Although Theresa May does have that striking Mars retrograde in Pisces opposite the rest of her chart, currently getting another crashing wave from transiting Neptune. It made her go off in an unexpected direction last time with a snap election, what path will she go off on now?
When Brexit came along in 2016, Mars stationed direct at 23 Scorpio, which of course is conjunct the EU Mars/Pluto, opposite the Moon and square the Mercury/Saturn – so you can see that they were going to take a hit of misdirected, vengeful anger, especially with fixed star Agena, which can be passionate and vengeful. Theresa May, with her natal Mars retrograde, then became Prime Minister, firstly after Dave and the Brexit men all ran away and then as the last one standing, rather than as a result of winning a direct battle.
With the latter half of 2018 a long relay of several planetary retrogrades with overlapping shadow periods, the progress and direction of the negotiations have seemed chaotic and well…stationary! The transiting Mars retrograde in Aquarius, unusually low and very bright in the sky, tied into a lunar eclipse. There is a great photo of Theresa May, in a red jacket, looking in a different direction to the collective backs of the group of male suits. Mars retrograde in Aquarius and squaring Uranus at one point speaks of a backlash from the group, with Jupiter also transiting that point of 23 Scorpio bringing confidence to that EU Moon, Mer/Sat and Mars/Pluto.
Mars will remain in the shadow period until 8th October, when it will square Venus retrograde and the EU Sun, with Venus stationing retrograde at 10 Scorpio. What a time for final negotiations, will we perhaps see some change of direction at the 11th hour? On 30th October, just before Venus leaves Scorpio, she opposes transiting Uranus and squares the NN, further indicating a sudden change of direction. The lunar eclipse in the new year at is at 0 Leo.
Something also seems to kick off mid-November, firstly with Mercury stationing retrograde on the 15th, indicating a going back to the drawing board. On 16th November, with the Sun having just left that point of 23 Scorpio, Venus stations direct in diplomatic Libra on the fortunate stars of Arcturus and Spica and in orb of the EU Jupiter. At the same time, Jupiter ingresses to its happier position in Sagittarius and Venus trines Mars. Uranus also backs into Aries, perhaps signifying a brief respite from the group stubbornness (Taurus) and the NN leaves fiery Leo for Cancer. Phew! A busy week indeed.
They’ll be plenty of hitches, glitches, reviews and short trips to neighbours until 6th December when Mercury stations direct. When it comes out of the shadow on Christmas Day hopefully we should all finally know where we are headed.
Had a look at the 1927 chart but too brain dead today to sort it out. Dates that arguably make more sense don’t always produce a chart that works best with influences and events. Though they usually have some similarities to earlier charts. I’ll back check against major events tomorrow to see.
Had to get up on too little sleep this morning to drive miles to La Prefecture to start the tedious process of getting a carte de sejour because of Brexit, dammit. French bureaucracy is mind-bending so much dragging out of old papers to prove this that and the other now obligatoire before the next rendezvous. From a selfish pov I’d put David Cameron on the rack and TMay with him who seems to have thrown ex-pats to the wolves quite blithely without a second thought. And we didn’t even get to vote on the dratted referendum which would have swung it.
I haven’t looked at the 1927 chart too deeply either and I would definitely go with your greater judgement on this. On first glance, it looked a little more flexible than the 1801 suggests and this fits my own experience working with British and European teams. You’re right about the similarities, Uranus remains angular (which explains a lot).
I hope getting your paperwork goes smoothly, it must be really stressful. I’ve had to register my children as “foreign births” to keep them EU citizens (thanks dad), even though we were all born in England. Madness, don’t even get me started! But what do we expect from a party who’d starve the disabled without a second thought for their own precious ideology? We’ve all been thrown to the wolves to save the Conservative party, I hope they never recover from this.
Thank you both Marjorie and Hugh for a very interesting analysis.
I see that Hugh uses the 1927 chart for the UK (with NI rather than Ireland). Given that the biggest sticking point is the Irish border, can I request Marjorie to look at Anglo-Irish relations in the short term? Is there anything that particularly sticks out on either the 1801 (UK of GB&I) or the 1927 (UK of GB&NI) charts? Is a reunified Ireland a possibility? Alternatively, will Ireland loosen its ties with the EU and form closer ties with the UK?
As an aside, I was reading your old Pluto in Capricorn article and that now seems prescient and spot-on, with Steve Bannon trying to create a nationalist front across Europe for the European Parliament elections.
“The Pluto Ingress of 2008 … Set for Brussels, the midheaven moves on 5 degrees which will catch the tr Saturn square later this year, but not get the tr Neptune opposition MC until 2019.It’s still financial though less markedly so; but with an even more restive domestic population since Uranus is within a degree conjunct the IC.”
Witty, cynical and perceptive piece by Janet Daley In Telegraph. Some lovely bon mots. ‘The British have always thought they were doing politics while the French and Germans were actually doing theology. For the EU, Brexit is not just a mistake, or a setback, or an economic dilemma. It is a heresy. ‘
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/09/22/eu-religion-britain-against-federalist-fanatics/
I had felt for a long time that the EU is closer to a religion/faith than either a political or an economic entity. Look at the “single market” or the “four freedoms” or just “freedom of movement” being held as a dogmatic article of faith, no questioning allowed.
Indeed, at times, I felt that the EU Commission was almost as dogmatic (though not as bad on the ground) as the Taliban or Al-Qaeda fanatics. No compromise is no way of doing politics. Politics is the art of the possible, not of principles, which is incidentally exactly why Jeremy Corbyn is so unsuited for politics. Politics requires bending, which he is incapable of.
I am reminded of the Aesop fable of the mighty oak and the lowly grass. It is the mighty and unbending oak that crashes during a storm, while the grass bends and survives. If the forthcoming storm is as bad as what you and Hugh suggest, I doubt that the EU will exist five years from now.
Thanks Hugh, for a very good analysis.
I voted to remain, but even I have to agree it would be folly to vote again. Too much rancour and bitterness has occurred.” We are where we are and it is what is “
The 1 November 1993 Chart for when Maastricht came into effect set for midnight London says it all. Pluto Mars conjunct at 24° Scorpio in the twelfth (hidden power, force) in opposition to the Moon (the common people) in Taurus.
Apologies Marjorie I see you have already pointed that out. That Maastricht 1st November 1993 set up is a powerhouse chart . Its weakness is it has no planets in mutable signs. It will be generally unmovable. It can initiate radical change on others (Uranus in Capricorn) but not handle change itself. That not may be a useful attribute once that Saturn Pluto synod really takes hold. Moreover it has a Uranus opposition hitting that Mars Pluto coming up in the early 2020s
How do you get 12th house Mars Pluto? Or is my software having a bad day?
Apologies Marjorie you are correct and I need my eyes testing. The Mars Pluto conjunction are in the 4th House of that Maastricht chart set at London for midnight
I am a historian not a trained astrologer so I tend to rely on Astrodienst and its ephemeris when I look at these matters but their charts are quite small and I am quite short sighted.
Just as an addendum I note that the Pluto Mars Conjunction at 24° Scorpio in that EU Chart is also square the UK Moon (the Common People) at 24 ° Leo in the 1927 UK Chart set to midnight London. So that resonance is particularly strong in Britain.
Know what you mean. These charts even on my PC need binocular vision It’s a horrible chart Maastricht and the UK interface is equally as nasty – with a composite Fixed Saturn opposition Uranus (= autocratic, on both sides) square Mars so riven with dislike and given to bad-tempered eruptions. But again only swampy Neptune transits affecting it which don’t quite look like a terminal separation to me.
Absolutely agree with the final point. From a historical perspective neither side can really escape from the other no matter how much they pretend otherwise. A lot of the tension here goes back to the two World Wars which left a complicated political, cultural and emotional legacy for continental Europe. The EEC and is successors is an attempt to come to terms with that troubled history. The UK is different in that its difficult legacy is the loss of the British Empire not the two World Wars. Only some of the European powers such as France, Spain, Holland, Belgium, Portugal and Germany for a brief period share that type of experience and none to the same extent and for as long with the possible exception of France and the Iberian countries. This is at the heart of the disconnect in the relationship as both sides instinctively see the world slightly differently and the ones that understand the UK best have often been in conflict with it as nation states.
A 4th House Pluto is actually more interesting in the EU Maastricht Chart because it is traditionally a difficult placement particularly with Mars conjunct. Problems in coming to terms with the past comes to mind which in the European continents case is not difficult to understand given what happened there in the 20th century. I some ways it seems the EU wants to blot out what went before rather than face it which may explain a lot
What difference do you think it will make apart from extending the agony even if the result is reversed ?
The astrology is the same regardless of the outcome and as I mentioned in the earlier post the EU 1993 Maastricht chart suggests the EU is not the sort of creature to let bygones be bygones. They will demand just as heavy price from Remainers as Leavers. After all David Cameron who wanted to Remain used to regularly get treated with the same contempt as Theresa May at EU summits and that was before he called the Referendum for party political reasons.
Regardless of outcome I think the world events triggered by the upcoming Saturn Pluto Conjunction in January 2020 will dwarf what is going on now. The door is about to close on one historical era and open on a another appropriately in the month of Janus the god of beginnings, endings, gatekeepers, passages, transitions and of course doorways.
The catastrophe of 2021 you mention, is it related to Brexit? When will the recovery be?
Given that Marjorie has predicted a recession (or a financial catastrophe) in the UK and in the EU (specifically Germany) at about the same time (2021) as a potential constitutional crisis in the US (late 2020 – 2021), I would say that the catastrophe will be global and not just related to Brexit.
Another astrologer that I also read has commented that this coming financial crisis (which she also predicts) will alter our understanding of money, specifically currencies. We have gone from gold to Bretton Woods to floating in the past hundred years and it is possible that that may change. Whether it changes to a world currency (a world-wide Euro) or cryptocurrencies (uncontrolled by any government), who knows?
Recovery is not forecast till 2024/5. Given that the central banks have got record low interest rates and QE has pumped billions into the markets, there will be very few tools that monetary authorities will have to fight the next recession. It will likely have to be tax-and-spend, which is also coincidentally when the Labour party’s charts show an improvement.
(Marjorie, am I reading correctly across your various posts?)
Will do a retread on Pluto in Capricorn later today. You could almost write the history of economic and currency theory on its occurrences from 11th Century onwards. It’s around 2008 till 2024 and we haven’t seen yet the massive correction that should have happened after the initial crash.
An excellent summary. The astrology for 2020 into 2021 is tough for the entire planet not just the UK. In retrospect I suspect Brexit may be regarded historically as two old bald men arguing over who has the comb. Personally I think that the root of the fracture in the EU and UK relationship can be traced back to that chart of 1st January 1973 when the UK joined the EEC. Membership of that body was foisted on the people by Parliament without any attempt at a Referendum. This was not the case in Ireland and Denmark who both joined at the same time or in Norway who would also have joined the EEC in 1973 if its people had not voted No in their referendum. Just another of the long list of disastrous policy decisions made by Ted Heath in the 1970s. In retrospect De Gaulle who constantly vetoed British membership of the EEC looks as though he may have been right.
Incidentally the Uranus a 22° Libra in that 1973 chart is in opposition to the Aries Sun of the 1927 UK Chart which created the current United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. No surprise that both will be hit by the approaching Saturn Pluto Conjunction in 2019 which will be increasingly squaring the angles of both charts in 2019.
In my view it makes little difference if Britain Leaves or Remains now as either outcome looks as though it will threaten the constitution of the country constitutionally. The EU is not a cuddly bunny as events in Greece and these negotiations show. It has lots of Scorpio traits in my belief (Maastricht Treaty 1 November 1993) so will seek to exact revenge either way even if it end up stinging itself to death in the process. Given what has gone on it would probably be better for the UK to Leave as those who think things are returning to the staus quo ante if we Remain seriously need tgeir heads examined.
With regard to British politics both parties should hang their heads in shame at their shambolic performance. Surprisingly, TM gets a pass from me though I think as a Libra she was deluded that this was a matter that was really open to negotiation. Her.mistake was trying to be reasonable in a world that is increasingly full of madmen.
Thanks Hugh, And the 1957 EEC chart has a 12th house Pluto square Mars which suggests ruthless power-play and dirty dealings behind the scenes and vengefulness. Not much give in that never mind a Fixed Grand Cross.
Heavens I haven’t looked at that Maastricht Treaty in a while. Mars Pluto in Scorpio in the 4th opposition a Taurus Moon square Saturn in Aquarius – don’t get much more controlling and brutal than that.
Thank you for background here, Hugh! It’s obvious Britain didn’t join EU under good skies, and the economy of all this was grim. However, I think a lot of frankly irrational animosity British Public has towards EU is caused by never truly addressed trauma of losing The Empire. When you think about it, most British Colonies in Africa had only gained Independence 10-13 years before Britain joined EEC. One could argue joining EEC was an afterthought of losing those colonies. Going from a Nation that ruled half the Globe to a Nation that had to negociate would have been hard.
Not sure your average middling Brit has much sense of history or regret about the lost Empire. Though I suppose older politicians and ancient Englanders might.
The anti-Eu sentiment was in part stoked by the right-wing papers who highlighted the EU’s egregious over-spending – Common Agricultural Policy etc and gravy-train MEPs and grossly expensive bureaucracy – without bothering to point out the benefits of no trade barriers and some sensible legislation.
What was also not highlighted was how often other EU countries blithely ignored supposedly-mandatory legislation if it didn’t suit them, in some cases just paying the fine and going merrily their own way thereafter. Whereas the UK tended to feel they had to toe the line.
The deciding factor – apart from the lying Brexiteers saying it would be easy-peasy – was immigration, for a UK already overloaded, courtesy of the Blair-idiots, by immigrants from Commonwealth countries. And the right-wing press then ramped up the rhetoric about a tsunami of Polish plumbers and Rumanian workers flooding in. In fact I’ve used both and they were magnificent – hard working, could turn their hand to many skills.
The real killer for the UK in my view for the 20th Century was World War 11, which effectively bankrupted the country in the effort to free the occupied continent and fend off Hitler.
The truth is the UK is not a good team player and as Janet Daley’s piece pointed out never bought into the theology of the EEC, which was a necessary article of faith to maintain the Franco-German axis.
What are the chances for a People’s Vote??? If and when will it happen???
Any idea of what is in store for Keir stamer and labour at the same time?