Shamima Begum, the London-born daughter of Bangladeshi immigrant parents who went to Syria in 2015 as an ISIS bride, produced and lost three babies in ISIS and refugee camps and was stripped of her UK citizenship, has been has now been given leave to return to the UK and appeal. The Justices said: “Fairness and justice must, on the facts of this case, outweigh the national security concerns.” The Home Office has said it is a disappointing decision and will appeal the judgment, and stay its effects pending any onward appeal.
Born 25 August 1999, she is a Sun Virgo inconjunct Neptune in Aquarius, with a very Fixed, obstinate and enduring temperament. Her Saturn in Taurus is in a can-be-autocratic square to Uranus Moon in Aquarius, opposition an obsessive, can-be-vengeful Mars in Scorpio, with Mercury, Venus and North Node in Leo. Her Neptune is in a head-in-the-louds, guru-chasing square to Jupiter.
Not an easy personality – self-willed, uber-determined – and her Fixed planets collide with the UK chart with its array of Saturn in Leo, Mars in Taurus, Venus in Aquarius and Neptune in Scorpio. Her remarks when she was first interviewed after the defeat of ISIS did not help, giving the impression she wasn’t contrite for her actions or associations.
She doesn’t look too confident ahead with Neptunian Solar Arcs and transits for the next two years plus a raft of tr Uranus disruptive hard aspects to her Fixed planets on till mid decade. She’s evidently sanguine about the appeal not working. If it fails she has the option of going to Bangladesh though she has never lived there or staying in a refugee camp.
The key for me is that she is not sorry and virtually justified the Manchester bombing which killed 22 people including many children who were enjoying an Ariana Grande concert.She is very fixed and likely to remain so and never likely to be remoseful or likely to change.I hope her bid fails as would seem likely according to Marjorie’s forecast .Her father is in Bangladesh ,perhaps she can join him
Well said Jessica.
Often, the human rights of the perpetuators are considered a priority over the human rights of the victims.
In this case, if she is allowed back, not only will the criminals of the past be allowed in, the criminals of the future have to be allowed in as well.
She may or may not be a risk to public safety, but others who will be let in may be.
Most people who support her being let back have right intentions in mind. Appreciate it. But, they have to carefully think about the perverse and unintended consequences putting their emotions aside.
I totally agree Sounh. The wider picture really needs to be taken into consideration here.
Not the just human rights of the perpetrators, the human rights of us all once precedents are set.
I’m not sure I understand the link between a groomed British teenager and “criminals of the past and future being let in”? Who do you mean? She was born and raised in Britain.
We also cannot try someone based on a media interview from a refugee camp. All sorts of reasons for her to be in a dissociative state, as well as being conscious of who there was watching her.
This is not to say she is innocent. She should face court.
Exactly. What will be deemed as acceptable for revoking British citizenship next? Shoplifting….voting for Corbyn…what will the baying mob call for next?
Begum was radicalised in the UK – she should face justice in the UK. Her father’s country of origin really has nothing to do with it.
Hmm. It’s not so much I think she’s a monster – more that of the ten billion things there are to worry about in the universe, her plight comes pretty far down the list. Large sums of money will be spent on her arguing a point of principle. Others a good deal more deserving who have as much if not more principle and fairness on their side will be ignored.
It’s not so much you personally thinking she’s a monster, Marjorie, sorry if I came across like that. Rather that I think politicians and certain sections of the media will find it very easy to spin it that way. I don’t think she is a product of a failure in Bangledeshi culture or religion per se, but rather global digital culture that unwittingly let extremism run unchecked. Yes, I think we do have to deal with it instead of blaming other places and things.
I guess this is further up my list than yours, but I think I see it differently. I think it has much wider consequences for society. Consequences for children and their perceived ability to consent to life changing decisions and how much responsibility we expect from them. I think it has huge consequences for anyone with dual citizenship, questions like:
Do we now have an effective system of two tiers of British citizenship – one that can be revoked and one that can’t? How will we view these two groups? Will one be seen as more “pure” British than the other?
How many British people will become dual nationals because of brexit?
What future offences against the state will be deemed to warrant taking away British citizenship? Are they in danger of being politcally motivated/populist decisions?
If you think those questions are far-fetched, think about how crazy the world has become in the last decade. This is exactly why we have courts and why human rights are always important. With every case we have to think about the wider consequences for society and the future. As for the large sums of money involved, perhaps this is one of many things that the Home Secretary at the time should have thought about instead of short term political motives.
My worry is that people are unhoused and hungry in London, despite their absolute right to be helped. Charity begins at home And in a time of extreme crisis worldwide, priorities change. It will also be public news for months and because of the history of this woman is not high on the list of fairness when others are so desperately poor.She will have infamy, free legal counsel, a world stage? That cant be right…..
Absolutely, I am from London myself and lived in many deprived areas there and still visit them. I also grew up in the 80’s with a Catholic grandmother whose standard response to everything was “There are children starving in Africa”, this was wheeled out whether someone had stolen your crisps or you’d broken your arms 😉
I think the argument is based on relative privation, or “appeal to worse problems”. Poverty in London is a separate problem that is a whole other debate.
I am worried that our rights can be chipped away by politicians by tapping into our resentments and fears, historically it hasn’t gone too well has it? Concerns about rights are then easily dismissed with “There are people hungry out there/there are worse problems…”
Tara, I had two Catholic grannies who said the same!!!! They appeared instantly in my mind, head on, with their stern faces……nothing changes…..but does personal reinstatement of one person who was fully engaged with the life she went to, now (due to changing her mind) take priority over the others in worse, daily plight? Of course its only a point of view, but I think politicians are creating a situation to deflect from the brain-dead leadership of the country…..any focus is better than that.
Maggy, I suspected I wasn’t alone with the Catholic granny thing 😀
I’d like to answer your point, but I don’t want to risk repeating myself and this thread has had enough of me. The shambolic legal aid system is another separate matter. I’ve just read this blog post by the Secret Barrister which I completely agree with:
https://thesecretbarrister.com/2019/04/15/shamima-begum-may-not-deserve-your-sympathy-but-she-is-entitled-to-legal-aid/
Another interesting blog post on human rights:
https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/humanrights/2014/06/08/rights-exceptions-and-the-spirit-of-human-rights/
Wow, she has some fixed chart there. She’s not likely to give up this fight easily.
I think this judgement is the correct one. She was 15 years old, legally a minor. From the start, I believed the initial ruling to deprive her of her citizenship stood on very shaky ground.
She didn’t just go to Syria as an ISIS bride, she went as a child that had been groomed online. The online grooming of children isn’t just about sexual abuse, some children have been coerced into suicide, others extreme organisations like this.
The way that children access and experience online life has drastically changed in 25 years. The contrast with my early internet access (and I was already older in my late teens) was a world away from now. Firstly, no personal devices, the one PC with monitor in a communal area. No hanging around for ages online – you were blocking the phone landline and being charged by the minute (so bill payer is watching everyone!). Shared email addresses, even at the large clothing company HQ I worked for in the 90’s had one company email address. We would gather round the PC like it was a television. People would hear when you started the modem.
The internet was a shared real life communal experience. Now real life is a shared internet, social media experience (look at people watching concerts through their phones)
I think unlimited broadband played its part during Neptune in Aquarius/Uranus in Pisces, but the smart phone also really accelerated this, between 2008 when Pluto went into Capricorn and 2010 grand cross. It’s probably easier to politically spin this girl as a monster than take responsibility – your move Saturn in Aquarius