NATO – Turkey could block Sweden

16 thoughts on “NATO – Turkey could block Sweden”

1. Why is 24 august 1949 the chosen chart? The North Atlantic Treaty was signed on april 4th 1949 at 4.30 pm.
   24 august is the day the treaty became effective.

   But what are the aspects that supports the august chart as the right one to describe the current situation?

   • Valid point. I have asked the question about the Union of Scotland/England/Wales 1801 Chart, as it started January, yet it must have been signed and sealed before then and Parliament did not sit at the time of the Chart. It is an interesting debate for Astrologers.

   • It is not an exact analogy but think of conception and birth. The August 1949 chart is when it first put a foot on the ground.

2. Some comentators here in NL see the hand of Russia in all these provocations. Also a warning for future applicants to secure agreement with all parties before announcing intentions. Question is whether Erdogan is with NATO or with Putin? At the moment he is clearly just for himself and his forthcoming election. Vis a vis NATO maybe the veto rule will come under scrutiny. Too many times held hostage to politcal posturing that stands in the way of decisive action, including over Ukraine.
   I just saw the Norma Percy documentary Putin vs the West. Shocking to see just how badly NATO and the West have been played by him. Well worth watching if you are at all interested in discovering how we ended up precisely where we are now.

   • Yes, SuHu, ‘Putin vs the West’ was illuminating, and riveting. Also, it was quite startling to see a younger Putin, by only a very few years, looking and acting so differently. While NATO and the West have been played by him, as you say, I’d argue there’s another layer of self-deception on the part of some in the West. For various reasons (some financial), everyone was keen to keep things on some kind of even keel. So they ignored warning signs. Something similar happened during the 1930’s.

     • Yes Jane, you are probably right. No one wants to be the first to stick their head above the parapet, let sleeping dogs lie. His game plan was the long one while the West just thinks as far as the next vote in Parliament, as made clear by Putin’s mockery of Cameron.
       When I look at him I see Capricorn rising but have found no rectified chart which supports this. I don’t have the in-depth knowledge to do it but maybe something for one of you experts here to play around with. I would be curious to know if the shoe fits.

       • Interesting. I am never sure about rectification, and wonder what Marjorie thinks? Nowadays, his face is so rounded, it looks like Cancer rising! But the earlier footage in that documentary reveals a much livelier person, someone who doesn’t seem to miss anything, and even some kind of sense of humour too. He appears to have been engulfed in some kind of malaise now.

         Re the long game, yes you’re absolutely right. This is also China’s strategy. I don’t know why it is ignored or dismissed by the West, or at least seemingly so. Was it always the case? Have Saturn’s cycles been sidelined in Western culture? Jupiter prevailed over Saturn in later myths (or Cronus and Zeus). A shorter astrological cycle, a shorter attention span? Just playing with ideas.

3. Marjorie, what does the astrology indicate for Turkey’s government, given the election in May? The population can’t be that happy what with massive inflation, fires without planes to put them out, etc.

4. Will be ok.Erdogans arm will be twisted hard one way or another.Take care.

5. “Sweden could count on bilateral security guarantees from the likes of the US and UK even without membership and has Finland as a buffer state to Russia.”

   Some grim humour here, but we are kind of fed up being a “buffer” for Sweden after being that for all but 110 years since the late 13th century. That said, geopolitically, it doesn’t make sense for Finland to join NATO and Sweden not, even for Turkey. In case of a Russian attack (which they really won’t do any more than they would nuke London, in the near future), vital logistic routes from Europe to Finland still mainly pass through Sweden, either through Southern Sweden and Gulf of Bothnia or through Northern Sweden. In case Finland was in NATO, was attacked, Article 5 was evoked, and Turkey was to send troops, they would be put on grave danger in case there wasn’t an evacuation route through Sweden. So Erdogan is essentially playing with lives of Turkish troops here.

   Erdogan is playing some sort of “divide and rule” game with Sweden and Finland, and thus far, rather unsuccessfully. This could, of course, change after Finland has Parliamentary Elections coming in April 2nd, with Center Right Coalition Party likely victorious albeit being led by a weak looking man. But since Finland doesn’t do “Bloc Politics”, they will likely form Government rather readily with Social Democrats, given populist Finns Party still have leaving the EU as an objective and don’t want ANY immigration to Finland – Coalition Party backers in industry knowing we need foreign workforce. And they will see joining NATO as the first priority.

   So yes, I’m confident Finland will be in NATO coming July. I would also give a good chance on Turkey being eventually either kicked off or leaving, and Sweden joining.

   • Good,but take it easy.Finland is great country.Gueśs Sweden and Finland will always help one another even if we are very different mentally.Sweden helped Finland during Winterwar.
     So many Finnish children were sent to Sweden. during the war with Russia
     .They still live here.Many,many.
     We can laugh at one other,still.With your dialect,s
     and so on.But you are a tough nation.Will always be.Be sure of that.Courages People.

     https://islam.fandom.com/wiki/Prophet_Muhammad_(%EF%B7%BA)
     Who was he? Psychical person or not.
     We don’t really know.Non what so ever.
     Do we really know Jesus? Oh,No.
     We can’t stick to history, anymore.
     No what religion we might have .
     Reality.

   • Turkey has been a member since 1952, has NATO’s second largest army and is host to the Allied Land Command HQ. Incirlik and Konya airbases have been used in several NATO military operations since inception. Also I would see 0% chance of Erdogan risking even 1 soldier in defense of Finland. Turkey’s membership relies on its strategic strength through its geography as the inflection point between east and west, and key shipping routes. Learning a little something of the history and operations of NATO would be useful

6. Thanks Marjorie, you are brilliant with current events! The situation is complicated by Islamophobia,which is rampant in the EU… Until this is tackled I see little progress. How can we trace the development of Islamophobia astrologically?

7. Marjorie,Thank you so very much.
   A lot to think about.
   I do really hope Paludan won’t get permission to demonstrate any where else ,but Denmark in where he belongs.
   He will burn the Koran every Friday in Denmark, untill Sweden will be ratified fully in Nato.
   Sandbox.He is living a dangerous Life,this little boy.

   • @Leo, I’d say Turkish Government really doesn’t give a damn about Paluden burning Korans – although I’m quite relieved there is a law in Finland police could intervene seeing this as against “peace of religion”. They are doing this out of spite for Swedish Governments of the past 80 years – no matter Left or Right – sitting on that high horse of moral superiority preaching everybody on their values. And they they want to teach Swedes a lesson.

     This is, I’d say, supported by the fact they have not expressed any issues at all with the current Center-Left Finnish Government, and particularly Foreign Minister Pekka Haavisto, who is a long time Human Rights advocate and openly gay, and negotiated an airlift of Finnish origin children and their mothers – some widows of fighters – from Al-Holy with Iraqi Kurd Regional Government, as well as Turkey. I think this might be, more than anything, sign of a different approach Finnish diplomacy since the Cold War, based on pragmatism, but above all listening to concerns different parties might have.

     I hope, though, that this will be solved in the best way for all, which would definitely be strong powers in NATO – US, UK, I’d say France (which has a long history of allying with Sweden) wrestle Erdogans arm.

   • @Leo, yes, Sweden didn’t help Finland during WWII. Or that Turkey would have an objective reason to refuse Swedish entry to NATO.

     I’m just pointing out a MAJOR blind spot Swedish politicians and diplomats, regardless of party affiliation, of at least seemingly talking down to people rather than talking with people. As Finnish Foreign Policy Analyst Minna Ålander tweeted (she is one of the people I stay there for) yesterday after PM Kristersson’s presser where he said he was flying to the US to further discuss help in NATO process as well as meet UN leadership to initiate the dialogue with the Muslim World:

     “Going to the UN GenSec for help to clear Sweden’s good name is prob the most Swedish thing ever to do though. (no criticism, just appreciating this Very Swedish Flex)”

     While Ålander does not intend this as a critism, Finnish approach – especially that of our current President -, would no doubt be calling leaders of major Muslim majority countries, such as Indonesia, directly.