Germany, USA – the pendulum swing to bigotry

Periods of rabid nationalism and institutional lunacy often follow times of national humiliation. Fascism in Germany grew out of the punitive measures meted out at Versailles in 1919 after their defeat in World War One. Russia’s present day macho chest-beating stems from the morale-crushing collapse of the old USSR empire in 1989. China emerged from a century of humiliation in the 1940s to foist the madness of Mao on the poor Chinese.

  The astrology for both Germany and Russia were similar with transiting Pluto opposition or conjunct their respective Suns as they sank to their nadir. The UK had tr Pluto conjunct its Sun in 2012/13 as it set sail down the ‘Take-Back-Control’ Brexit road .

   On the face of it the USA hasn’t faced any similar identity-crushing moments. Except for 9/11 which was a considerable dent to national pride, followed by an obviously botched Middle Eastern intervention, and then the 2007/8 sub-prime mortgage fiasco leading to the financial crash.  Tr Pluto opposition the USA Sun was around 2013/2014, during Obama’s 2nd Term which had seen the Affordable Care Act and same-sex marriage/affirmative action pushed forward (and blocked). In the November 2014 midterms Republicans secured a Senate majority and expanded their control in Congress to a level not seen since World War II.

  This is a stretch – but I wonder if having surprised themselves mightily by voting in Obama (twice), (Heaven’s to Betsy a Person of Colour) and seeing liberal legislation passed wasn’t a blow to the rednecks and other fledgling MAGA types. Their ideal USA isn’t the military power-house that Germany and Russia wanted (although it once was). But their dream country shares similarities in crushing any internal dissent of their totalitarian and xenophobic mindset; and in parallel with Nazi Germany puts a strong emphasis on racial purity.

   There are slight similarities between the Germany 1871 chart and the USA chart in that both have an afflicted Mercury with can-be-fanatical aspects, in the US case to Pluto and for Germany Uranus and Neptune. So the national temperaments are prone to fixed, obsessive ideas.

  When Hitler was made Chancellor in 1933, tr Uranus in Aries was conjunct the Germany 7th house Neptune (square the Mercury opposition Uranus) so it would be a moment of high excitement and delusion. Hitler’s leadership of the Nazi Party starting in 1921 to his death in 1945 coincided with tr Pluto moving through the Germany 10th house of career, which can be a time of ruthless power seeking. As he suicided, it exited – on a Nodal Return.

  Not sure what all this proves vis a vis the lunatics taking over the asylum in the USA.  Apart from the fact that the propensity for extreme ideologies has to be there in the first place to be triggered. But it might spark off a few other thoughts so do pitch in.

  My personal view is that religion is the source of a good deal of evil and misogyny in the world and appears to be embedded in the USA mindset, despite being exposed again and again as egregiously hypocritical, money-grubbing and fraudulently pious on matters of sexual behaviour.

Other thought is it has always struck me that the USA more than most countries needs a hated ‘other’ in order to maintain internal cohesion. If all the inhabitants are psychologically focused against – first all all the feared Commies and then the Arabs, there is less energy for domestic fighting. But once those external enemies are vanquished the anger comes home to roost and it creates aggravation on home turf. A strong need for ‘those like Us’ and revulsion against ‘those that are not Us’ is behind a good deal of the present divisiveness.

  In the next post I’ll look at the USA ahead through the next three elections for clues on when the daylight will dawn again.     

37 thoughts on “Germany, USA – the pendulum swing to bigotry

  1. Thank you, Marjorie, for this analysis.
    I wrote something about my experience with sun cancers (very rudimentary astrologically, I know): I find that while they can be very nurturing to those they see as “family,” they can be downright awful to those whom they see as “outsiders” to that definition. That seems to dovetail with your “needs a hated ‘other’” observation, as I also find cancers to be prone to insecurity, which leads it to strike out (Cold War, Iran, Afghanistan/Iraq) or shrink back into its shell (MAGA/nationalism?), even though better solutions can be found (maybe also because of its retrograde Mercury?).
    Interesting to note the close Venue/Jupiter conjunction. I wonder if that’s what gives the U.S. its glittery facade that attracts so many people to settle in the country. Would be good to know the accuracy of its “birth” time to see if the conjunction is indeed in the 10th house. Taurus on the 9th definitely seems to be in line with the U.S. worship of money on a practically religious level, as transformation through military actions (Aries on the 8th).
    In terms of religion, as it is man-made, I personally think it’s the people who use religion as rationalization for their actions that need more examination. It is also why organized religions with long histories can shift in “flavor,” depending on who’s at helm and the makeup of its constituents, which is why the version of Islam we encounter will be dependent on the culture of the country for which it is a major religion. For instance, Iraq was a place of enlightenment thanks to Muslim sultans (c 900 ad) who valued scholarship and helped to conserve Hellenistic culture.

    • There is no accurate birthtime for the US chart. There is a popular Sibley chart which puts it around 5pm in the afternoon giving it a Sag ascendant which coincides well with the 9-11 upheaval and, of course, that makes Jupiter the chart ruler.

      Even without an accurate time, it’s an interesting chart because Sun in Cancer, Neptune in Virgo, Moon in Aqua plus Mercury in Cancer are not good placements by any stretch. The flipside is Jupiter in Cancer and Saturn in Libra are exalted, while Venus in Cancer is good and Mars-Uranus in Gemini is pretty nimble.

      While the Jupiter-Sun-Venus in Cancer thinks the world of itself, the rest of us are more sceptical. The square to Saturn in Libra also highlights the tension between stated aims of liberty and freedom for all vs making sure “I’m alright Tex”.

      The Mercury in Cancer opposition Pluto in Capricorn (with Neptune in Virgo mini-grand trining) really highlights the paranoia within the country. There’s always an enemy – whether it’s the Communists out there, the Blacks in here or the Government tapping their phones.

      • Like the way you put it. Especially agree with the outer ‘other’, versus ‘the Blacks who are the inner ‘other’ (I was going to comment separately when I saw it but changed my mind and deleted).

        Anyway, ….. my take is that technically the US mindset is always ‘at war’ whether facing outward or inward ……. so to speak?! So does natal Mercury Cancer opposite Pluto Cap mean that will take a lot of work and determination to change? And they will have to want to??

      • @GnarlyDude,

        Thank you for that astrological analysis!

        I thought Mercury would also be considered badly placed in Leo (fall), Sag (detriment) and Pis (detriment & fall). Its retrograde, though, sometimes can present in traditionalist thinking–as I don’t have enough data on this, I’d like to hear other people’s input on this one.

        Maybe “The Mercury in Cancer opposition Pluto in Capricorn (with Neptune in Virgo mini-grand trining)” also point to the U.S. tendency for covert operations to gain power/maintain upper hand or control rationalized as idealism? McCarthy’s red-scare Hollywood purges, CIA-orchestrated coup in Iran and its support and proliferation of modern art (the likes of Pollock) to counter communism, for instance, or FBI’s COINTELPRO operations, which did tap the phones of Black Civil Rights leaders, groups and those who supported them (i.e. Jean Seberg, a promising actress the FBI drove to mental instability and perhaps suicide: https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/movies/story/2020-02-26/jean-seberg-real-life-kristen-stewart), the government-funded Tuskegee Experiment, which deliberately left Black Men in Alabama with syphilis untreated, use of enslaved Black women to research for advancements in gynecology–there are very good reasons behind why the Black population in America distrust COVID vaccines. In any case, this is where the house placements would come in handy.

      • @GnarlyDude,

        Thank you for that astrological analysis!

        I thought Mercury would only be considered badly placed in Leo (fall), Sag (detriment) and Pis (detriment & fall). Its retrograde, though, sometimes can present in traditionalist thinking–as I don’t have enough data on this, I’d like to hear other people’s input on this one.

        Maybe “The Mercury in Cancer opposition Pluto in Capricorn (with Neptune in Virgo mini-grand trining)” also point to the U.S. tendency for covert operations to gain power/maintain upper hand or control rationalized as idealism? McCarthy’s red-scare Hollywood purges, CIA-orchestrated coup in Iran and its support and proliferation of modern art (the likes of Pollock) to counter communism, for instance, or FBI’s COINTELPRO operations, which did tap the phones of Black Civil Rights leaders, groups and those who supported them (i.e. Jean Seberg, a promising actress the FBI drove to mental instability and perhaps suicide: https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/movies/story/2020-02-26/jean-seberg-real-life-kristen-stewart), the government-funded Tuskegee Experiment, which deliberately left Black Men in Alabama with syphilis untreated, use of enslaved Black women to research for advancements in gynecology–there are very good reasons behind why the Black population in America distrust COVID vaccines. In any case, this is where the house placements would come in handy.

        • @Walk in Another’s Shoes

          ‘In any case, this is where the house placements would come in handy.’

          Pluto Cap is in 4th and Mercury Cancer in 10th. Marjorie has commented on Pluto in 4th on a number of occasions – pretty heavy going

  2. “My personal view is that religion is the source of a good deal of evil and misogyny in the world and appears to be embedded in the USA mindset, despite being exposed again and again as egregiously hypocritical, money-grubbing and fraudulently pious on matters of sexual behaviour.”

    As you say, it is a personal view but then religious thought is intensely personal. For me religion is ultimately based on dialectical thinking (ie the understanding of opposites and the transformation of ideas, emotions, characteristics, into their opposites – thus the relationships between love and hatred, generosity and greed, wisdom and delusion etc or even such notions as ying and yang or north and south nodes etc in astrological charts as already mentioned elsewhere by other readers).

    Religion can go horribly wrong when it is too highly organised, when it is too dependent on hierarchical structures. In fact I would go so far at to say that the most fundamental religious disputes relate to the dichotomy (or dialectic) of a direct connection between a person and their God (as in Quakerism) and/or mediation by a Church or Church elders (as in Presbyterianism).

    [NB Organised religion, especially extreme protestantism such as Presbyterianism or Southern Baptism, has been widespread in the USA since it’s foundation. Given that extreme protestantism first arose in Germany and is such a dominant part of the German mindset, it is hardly surprising that German people should feel so at home in the USA.]

    The corrective to organised religion in the late 20th century was a widespread dissemination of ‘New Age’ religious practices and beliefs – though some might argue ‘New Age’ was a ‘zeitgeist’ or ‘a Weltanschauung’ (both German philosophical notions) rather than a specifically religious movement.

    So what happened to New Age thinking? Has it too transformed into it’s opposite ie into a (pseudo) organised religion with all the negatives that entails? Has the pendulum swung back to institutional dominance and control rather than personal freedom of choice? Is this perceived as the answer to a chaotic world where individualism has run riot?

    • Liz, I’m not sure I understand most of this – but you do seem to have a bee in your bonnet about Presbyterianism. I was brought up in this and found it tedious, overly rational and not remotely extremist. Compared to Roman Catholicism or Islam it was very moderate.
      New Age thinking has given way I suspect to nothing at all – a void where religious belief used to be.

      • As we have said before, you tend to think of religion in terms of (Western) institutions whereas I think of it in terms of (Eastern) personal enlightment.

        I hate the Scottish Presbyterianism founded John Knox in 1560. It gave rise to the worst religious misogyny ever seen and led directly to the Puritan witch hunts in England during the mid 17th century and in America during the late 17th century (Salem in particular). The leading American Puritans were particularly tyrannical – seeking freedom to practice their own version of religion but in doing so they virtually enslaved their own famiies and neighbours as well as the natives they converted.

        England recovered from the more extreme forms of Puritanism (but only after a Civil War) whilst the USA still seems to be in thrall.

        • I tend think of religion across the board whether Christian, Judaism, Islam, Buddhist, Hinduism or whatever.
          Eastern enlightenment gurus are as guilty of sexual and financial misbehaviour as western ones.
          And there was pressure some years back for Tibetan Buddhism to be less weighted towards the masculine since centuries of male-only monasteries were what drove it.

          • No religion starts out as misogynistic or repressive*. Religions start as personal quests for salvation or enlightment, call it what you will, by groups of disciples led by a highly developed being or beings. The organisations which subsequently form are supposed to support and encourage that quest – not control and oppress the seekers. Tibetan Buddhism in particular only works when it stays true to it’s first teacher, Padmasambhava, who exemplifies the guru principle. I won’t get started on Tantric Buddhism – there is plenty of information on the internet.

            NB *With the exception of the Presbyterian Church of Scotland, founded by John Knox who instigated the first witch hunt in the UK

            https://www.witchesofscotland.com/about

            https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jan/26/catalonia-expected-to-pardon-up-to-1000-people-accused-of-witchcraft

            I view anti abortionists as latter day witch hunters

      • Wel, marjory i was brought up in france and like most french i have a catholic background. Very light as it it part of my cultural heritage of course, but no more. I can tell you that catholicism is really nothing compared to protestant calvinism, there is no joy in calvinism . It is very much about control and money.. In my vue religion is an institution to control and keep an eye on people ( we have now internet and modern tools). It has nothing to do with god of whom is invoked. True spirituallity has nothing to do with churches, or gods , it is something personal and intimate.
        But catholics, and i know it because in the southern part of the netherlands the population is catholic, see protestants as extremely materialistics, bypocrits and sneeky.
        I have the most profund dislike of all religion and supposed pious people . But i love the” missa solemnis” by beethoven as well as ” the messiah” by handel and if there is a concert in a catholic church, i will go.

        • I wouldn’t disagree with you Aline – it is joyless- and worse tuneless! The hymns in church are dreary and unsingable. As a child on holiday we were taken to a Baptist church and it was such a joy to have hymns that were happy and had tunes.
          The Northern Ireland protestants make my hair stand on end and always seemed to me akin to the pro-apartheid Dutch Reform Church in South Africa. But the Catholic Church is hardly free of the sin of greed where money is concerned. Though I always thought there was merit in the rituals of the Roman church compared to the bleakness of calvinism, though it was not remotely punitive in the version I grew up with. Apart from one hellfire and damnation sermon from a ‘Wee Free’ minister up in north Scotland – they are fundamentalist whack jobs but from recollection we came out giggling.
          Sorry for the ramble – I abandoned all vestiges of faith in any of it long since.

          • The greed you mention has also to do with pomp. Just like royalties really, the same. To show power and impress the masses. Look st the orthodox churches. The same. And
            old synagoges are very much off the top .
            That is for the institution. But many priests were really poor and lived from charity Works of arts were given to the churche and music is wonderfull.. Only protestants don t have pomp but they came later.

          • @marjorie
            And as an add on:
            The catholic pomp did accompany for century the royal pomp.
            Protestantism in england was of course introduced by henri viii ti get his divorces.
            What about the pomp of the church of england ?

    • I wave no flags for Knox or Protestantism or indeed any other form of organised religion. But just to set the record straight – the first legislation against witchcraft was the Witchcraft Act 1541 – before the Reformation took place when England was dominated by the Catholic Church. The number of witches burnt in Europe during the seventeenth century amounted to over a thousand; in Scotland some twenty five were executed in the same period.
      Prior to that the Inquisition (Vatican) had been merrily burning alleged heretics at the stake and torturing others.
      They were deeply uncivilized times.
      I’m no expert on Knox but part of his dislike of women came from female monarchs on the throne Mary/Elizabeth and he was undoubtedly misogynist through and through. But the mediaeval Vatican was every bit as bad. And in Judaism as I understand they thank god daily they weren’t born women.

  3. It’s an extremely hard slog to read, but Hitler’s extremely rambling and brutal book does explain the mindset of resentment and vengeance you describe. Obviously it got to an enormous extreme there, in a wave he both helped to create and then rode to the top… until in his overreaching, it all crashed down.

    A much easier and nearly as informative read is any good overview of the Spiral Dynamics theory of social psychology. It say successive waves of crisis prompt social evolution, that alternately cycles between focus on self and focus on community, in gradually ever more inclusive ways. The U.S. has multiple waves of people at different levels of attitude and mindset. SD is very helpful to sort through and understand where people are coming from.

  4. The USA Chart has Venus/Mercury midpoint on its Sun in the Tenth House, squaring its Saturn in the first. It actually views itself as the leader of the World and perhaps a little superior? Therefore, if it has this attitude, then it will need an enemy to demonstrate it leadership skills. Although the stellium of cancer planets in the tenth, will also demonstrate the need to protect the country at all cost. The Sun square Saturn will mean that it is extremely important to maintain this balance of power. Jupiter/Sun conjunction will also echo the Devine right to serve themselves. Although their Mars/ Mercury midpoint is 7 degrees of cancer, it is close enough to given the need to go to War to protect themselves. Interestingly, the USA’s North Node/ Uranus midpoint is also 7 degrees of Cancer. Quick to anger and to defend. Dig deep enough and the USA is anything but progressive. It will cling ( like the cancer crab) for dear life to their power and God as their Devine protector. The country’s psyche is tenacious, hence the Gun Law, Abortion and being the big ( Jupiter the largest planet in the Universe)protector of the world. If Russia is the Bear – America is the crab which may move sideways on its own land, but threat it and it pierce you.

    • Don’t be too hard on us. We (USA) tried to be isolationist until WW2 pulled us out of it, Senate and House wanting to avoid the whole thing till forced to, then directly to the Cold War. Our ascendancy may wane, and then who is next? China? Very different mindset, and much less talk of human freedoms. Empires come and go, Spain, East Dutch Company, England/United Kingdom, Russian. USA – We’ll be around- but it may be a different capacity. Today / this past week – China repeatedly going around Japan in war boats. Japan is worried. We are otherwise occupied. It is always something. My ancestors came over in the 1600’s to get away from Religious wars in the old country – England, France, Scotland. The evangelicals in Texas are not puritans, they were based on English Anabaptists. They are today Baptists and Southern Baptists. Some of my ancestors survived the Saint Bartholomew Day Massacre (French Huguenot). That will make you paranoid.

  5. ‘Other thought is it has always struck me that the USA more than most countries needs a hated ‘other’ in order to maintain internal cohesion……. A strong need for ‘those like Us’ and revulsion against ‘those that are not Us’ is behind a good deal of the present divisiveness’

    That’s a very astute observation. I remember Nancy from Starlight mentioning that U.S. progressed Mars went retrograde in the early 2000s and I think that it is finally manifesting itself big time with all of the upheaval created by Republicans.

    • Roderick, It also works in families. RD Laing’s ‘Sanity, Madness and the Family’ is riddled with examples. If the scapegoat/hated one steps out of their assigned family role then all that dislike/anger which was projected onto them comes back home to roost amongst the other family members and causes major family upsets.

      • What I learned from being around a particular relative is their unhappiness is projected at every level.

        While they may simply seem to be racist or xenophobic, if you listen there’ll be certain politicians they hate, certain members of the Royal Family, certain celebrities who also get their ire. At work, there will be a colleague they don’t trust and point the finger at. Over a period of years, I came to learn every one of their neighbours (bar one) is apparently a terrible person. And then within the family there are certain people who are the bad egg and can do nothing right.

        America is the same. It needs an external enemy whether it’s Communists, Arabs or Al-Qaeda. But then within it, the blacks are hated. Go deeper it’s women. Even if the blacks and women could be fully subjugated and controlled, someone else would become the problem.

        If you look at Hitler – it explains why he could never be happy with taking over Germany and suppressing the Jews and instead started conquering Europe. Whenever he’d win an area, he needed somewhere new to project the unhappiness onto. Astrologically, put it down to his Cap moon which couldn’t process his feelings of hate, so projected them to try and take action and eliminate them. Add in his Aries/Taurus planets for no concept or empathy of other people. His situation was heightened by transiting Pluto-Uranus hitting everything through the 30s/40s.

        Biggest lesson I learned – when you meet a deeply unhappy person; you might as well let them wallow in a minor issue. If you fix it they’ll just come up with a new thing to be unhappy about.

  6. Re the US Marjorie, what about the effect of the Solar Eclipse due to fall over the US and Canada
    on April 8 2024?
    Thank you if you comment.

  7. This is most interesting. About twenty years ago I read about America’s relationship with its immigrant population (unfortunately can’t remember title or author) in which it was asserted that “Germans make the best Americans” in that as a group German immigrants seemed to adopt American ideals and the way of life most readily, they integrated most fully compared with other groups that tended to hang onto some vestiges at least of their ethnic culture.

    • I agree. I also read that one states is very German and that it was America’s largest demographic for a long time. Which means the American/British special partnership has never been quite true. It is the common language which is the link. Also Ireland is another country linked with America and has a massive opinion base, more important then the U.K. I believe the American Wikipedia has some information on the Germanic link. There census also bears this out. Perhaps it has to do with France and Britain having quite large bases in Canada, where the Germans were not strong.

      • This reminded me of a visit to the Ellis Island museum in New York which had thought provoking information about immigration into the US. It was moving to think of the journeys people made. Records show most early immigration was from Great Britain, Ireland, Germany and Scandinavia. Over 1 million GB citizens went to the US up to the mid 1950s which at one time was the largest group.

      • “the American/British special partnership has never been quite true”

        The American/British partnership has very little to with what you’re describing, the same is true for most U.S. foreign relations. What you are describing is largely fluff. U.S. partnerships have to do with the many links between America’s Elite apparatus of foreign policy, intelligence, and military with the same components with X country abroad.

        I will put the case of Mexico. Despite the change in demographics with the growing Latino ancestry (especially Mexican) in the U.S., Mexico barely has taken a more important role in the U.S. foreign relations landscape (one could point out the recent debacle at the Summit of the Americas, for example), and is largely reduced to America(n business) dominating its economy, and immigration problems.

      • @Helen There is a special relationship with UK. The whole thing started out as English Land Grants.

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_grant#:~:text=Colonial%20era-,English%20land%20grants,company%20founded%20to%20colonize%20Virginia.

        Virginia is named for Queen Elizabeth the First – the Virgin Queen. Maryland is name for Queen Mary. The flag of the USA is based on George Washington’s noble family colors/standard.

        Germans and Irish are important. They came in later. On all four sides of my family we were all here and early (before 1700).

    • That was because German nationalism and identity was “ruined” with the the World Wars and especially with Nazism. Many German immigrants to the U.S. in the pre-war period were not well “integrated” at all.

  8. I’d be interested in seeing how the readings for January 6th 2021 tally with the above. The Capitol attack and its aftermath set off an identity shaking depth charge I’d have thought.

    • The right-wing, not just religious, has been gaining ground for quite awhile now (over a decade), and all over the world, as you said.

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