Two other sensationalised murders of years past are also in the news. Amanda Knox, cleared of the 2007 murder of Meredith Kercher after eight years in an Italian prison, has been voicing her objection to Stillwater, a Matt Damon film, about an American father trying to exonerate his daughter up on a murder charge in Europe. It was directly inspired by the Amanda Knox story but her character in the movie appears to implicate her indirectly in the killing. Knox says “It is the false narrative that was presented by the prosecution that has been debunked by evidence and yet is the ongoing myth that is an obstacle towards me —- being taken seriously as a person.”
The other below is Louise Woodward, the British teenage nanny found guilty of the 1997 manslaughter of a baby in her care. The evidence will be trawled over in a new three-part documentary: Villain or Victim?
Knox, born 9 July 1987 2.47 am Seattle, Washington, is a Sun, Mercury, Venus in Cancer which sit across from Neptune in the 8th, with a ratchety, complicated Moon Saturn Uranus in Sagittarius in her 7th house of relationships. She wouldn’t have a settled emotional life, for sure, with a head-in-the-clouds 8th house Neptune and low emotional self-esteem from Moon Saturn and unpredictable reactions from Moon Uranus. Plus she has a ramped-up and angry Mars in Leo square Pluto.
What told against her initially were her odd reactions at the time and some discrepancies in the timeline she offered. There’s no doubt a drifter Rudy Guede was the one responsible but the confusion in the stories and the slanted police investigation turned it into a global media bunfight with her reputation being serially slandered.
What is noteworthy astrologically is not only her evasive 8th house Neptune; but also her Mars square Pluto. Like all astrological markers aspects have opposite ways of working out, depending on whether they are lived out or left unconscious and therefore attract what they don’t own. Mars Pluto is brutal/ruthless and Doris Duke clearly lived hers out to the full. But in others, especially women, they tend to attract brutality or hostile dislike, for reasons they don’t understand, because they find it difficult to utilise the high-octane Mars Pluto energy. It can be a plus point for those who work in crises areas – war correspondents, NGOs in the Congo etc or in domestic violence shelters – having courage and a cool head when others are losing theirs. But it isn’t helpful in ordinary life.
When Meredith Kercher was killed tr Saturn was conjunct her 8th house Neptune and tr Pluto was aiming to go into her trapped 8th house. Indeed it has only just emerged from there. At the moment her Solar Arc Neptune is conjunct her Midheaven which will be contributing to her disappointment and muddle.
Louise Woodward, 24 February 1978 3am Elton, England, who was convicted of second degree murder, dropped to involuntary manslaughter on appeal, of the death of a baby in her care, which hinged on conflicting medical evidence about shaken or dropped baby syndrome. Again it caught global headlines and again attracted intense media arguments for and against.
She is a Sun, Mercury, Venus in Pisces with a 9th house far-travelled Virgo Moon. She has a notable Neptune on her Ascendant opposition a 7th house Jupiter, so confident though not always realistic. She has a controlling Pluto on her Midheaven with a deeply buried Mars in the 8th, which is square Pluto and trine her Uranus – so she will have strong reactions. But again with 8th house and Mars Pluto there’s no way of telling whether she would live them out or attract hostility to herself. When the baby died tr Pluto was just across the square to her Mars/Pluto midpoint so she would have been under pressure running into that time.
Astrology is never an indicator of guilt or innocence but it is intriguing to see the way certain similar aspects play out – inwards and outwards. What caused problems in both of the above cases was the marginally odd demeanour of both when under police questioning.
People have left so many helpful and kind suggestions, thank you, I appreciate it very much indeed!
There’s a lot of goodwill on this thread! I hope Marjorie won’t mind me suggesting a non-astrology book: Celebrate Your Self by Dorothy Corkville Briggs. It’s been great for understanding the different parts of myself that need expression and although it is “self-help” and not related to astrology, in some ways you can apply the planetary influences to the different personality traits she covers, if that’s helpful. I’ve had it for years and always refer to it when I am trying to understand some facet of myself or others – in fact, it’s by my bed right now. It’s one of the handful of self-help books that I use as my “bible”.
Crabby Old Leo, write what you know.
Thank you for your encouragement Crabby. I wanted to let you know that you are valuable, and are not here to be pushed around, shunned or disempowered. Our planetary placements are challenging, and I admire you for seeking ways to work with yours constructively, and hope that you can enjoy your ‘self’ and your life.
And I hear you now. Thank you.
Thank you for your advice, Marjorie. Sorting out the inner disorganisation is certainly challenging.
To Crabby old Leo, I hear you! I have Mars conjunct Saturn in Sagittarius ( 9th house), and I know I have an edgy and rather blunt personality at times. Not usually cruel, but let it rip when I have been pushed too far. I have to be careful with this, as like you, can alienate others, and do not like to hurt people when the ‘bitch’ is back! I had to learn about constructive ways to use this aspect, as I had to navigate my way in the world of men ( Australia-very chauvinistic) I have been a target of several men, starting with my birth family. I won’t kiss a man’s arse, have feared for my life at times, police involvement, the whole nine yards. Mental rape. Have Aries rising and South node in this house, and call upon battle skills to expose the predator, these men not highly regarded amongst decent people. Have Mercury most elevated planet in ninth house, and would love to write about unpopular topics, however don’t want to be a target; have been disempowered enough. The world is choc full of good people, none of us are here to be crushed because we are being true to ourselves. I have been able to get up off the ground, as have only regained my strength and power, knowing this.
That’s quite a journey you’ve been on – those are such powerful planetary aspects, and I think if you haven’t good role models as a child, it’s hard to know how to handle all that power, but in the end, you obviously have, kudos to you for getting through that.
Mercury in 9th – wow, in the house of publishing, I can see why you’d love to write.
I always felt terribly sorry for the Kercher family, as the whole thing turned into a three ring circus that focused entirely on the strange behaviour of Amanda Knox. I imagine that in a country where emotions are are not something ever covered up, it would appear strange that she didn’t appear at the very least upset. And it is that lack of awareness that will always have some people wondering if she wasn’t somehow involved in it.
However, the real villain or villains of the story is how the police investigation and the trial was conducted. And can somebody explain to me why the Italian Police feel the need to have two entirely separate forensic departments,?
Marjorie, could you comment on an out of sign trine. I have moon late Aquarius trining early Neptune/ Jupiter conjunct in Scorpio. I feel that my emotions are ill equipped for the dark stuff I see, with Moon ooposite Pluto early Virgo, and Cap Mercury trine Pluto.
Out of sign trines are in signs which are either square or quincunx each other which evidently makes a difference. They won’t be as smooth flowing at an internal level as a standard trine and may produce some unease and lack of self-confidence. Sorting out inner disorganization helps. In signs that are in square it may make you feel edgy since the trine means there isn’t the usual gritty motivation to fix a conflict which usually occurs with a square.
These are only subtle effects and while in early-learning astrology trines are deemed good and squares bad, there are pluses and minuses to both. Trines can be lazy, expecting results with no effort and not giving satisfaction for achievements. Squares can lead to character building since they tend to force action to overcome obstacles.
I curious what you think of out of sign squares. I have Mars in late Taurus square Pluto in early Virgo (5 degree orb). I tend to discount it as I have other closer aspects (my Mercury and Venus are conjunct Pluto, and all sextile Jupiter and Neptune) so I’ve always focused on those and other major aspects in my chart. I have not had a life of violent or criminal associations! Albeit some personal relationship struggles in past years.
They do operate slightly differently depending on the signs involved. My understanding is that for example in your case Virgo and Taurus are in whole sign terms in trine, so it can be more difficult to face up to the hurdle of the square aspect. Normally you’re driven to overcome the obstacle presented by a square but with a dissociate/out of element square there may be less motivation/desperation to find a constructive outlet for the energy. In this instance out of a desire to look for an easier option – being a sign trine it expects the energy to flow not throw obstacles in your path. If that makes sense.
Interesting. I hadn’t thought of it that way. Thanks, Marjorie.
Thanks Marjorie for those stories..interesting!
Mars/Neptune, Mars/Uranus, Mars/Saturn, Mars/Pluto all agressive energies when badly aspected.
Rae: you make me laugh with your worry to be accused of murder! 🙂
As Marjorie wrote, we cannot just by looking in a chart, say if someone is guilty or not.
Thanks Marjorie. Very interesting about Pluto/Mars, which I have myself too. I’d say I’ve certainly encountered a number of major criminals by apparent “chance” – as neighbours, and socially in unlikely and outwardly pleasant settings, events, and neighbourhoods. I’ve witnessed a shooting, in New York, too. One of my colleagues was murdered years ago, while another committed murder. He was a mild mannered, well educated man. I have experienced other Pluto-themed things personally too. It’s only when I start focusing on all this I see that such things don’t always crop up in everybody’s lives!
This post also prompted me to look up Lindy Chamberlain, 4th March, 1948. Her baby daughter, Azaria, was stolen and killed by dingoes in the outback in Australia, and she was wrongly accused of murder but eventually pardoned when further forensic evidence emerged. Lindy Chamberlain has Mars in Leo (22) conjunct Saturn (17), trine Jupiter (26). Saturn is conjunct Pluto in Leo (13 degrees).
Jane, It is amazing how we normalize our experiences and assume what happens to us is run of the mill. Only at some point standing back do you realise that others have much less melodramatic lives. And it’s all there in the chart.
I’ve a Mars sextile Pluto square Saturn – and a good many people close to me died in my first three decades. I’ve known a couple of suicides, not well, but was strangely a close bystander when they went. And I’ve known several good going criminals (and very charming they were if one didn’t linger on their other activities).
What I think has been my saving grace was a strong Jupiter = optimism and luck; an infinitely curious Mercury; and a rebellious, risk-taking Uranus which jolted me out of ruts and dysfunctional relationships and sent me off on adventures.
Everyone’s experience is different but not getting stuck in dark places is important. Understand it, learn from it, use it and move on. Shit is a great fertilizer.
Thanks for this Marjorie, and for the advice to stop being “nice” to COL as well. I agree “shit is a great fertilzer” – which sentence made me smile. Mars/Pluto may be dark, but I’ve noticed that the relentless side of it can be channeled in all manner of ways that aren’t destructive – it certainly enhances determination.
It’s intriguing to look at writers who write about dark topics too. For example, horror novelist Stephen King (21 September 1947) has Pluto and Saturn conjunct in Leo. His NN is conjunct Algol at 26 Taurus, trine BML in Capricorn. Mary Shelley (30 August 1797) has Pluto in Aquarius opposing Mars at 1 Virgo, which is conjunct the Virgo Sun at 7 degrees. Agatha Christie had Pluto conjunct Neptune square Saturn, and Daphne Du Maurier also had Pluto square Saturn, and Mars conjunct Uranus.
It’s the grit in the oyster that makes the pearl.
Very interesting Jane. ‘American Psycho’ author, Bret Easton Ellis too – he has admitted to dark and twisted fantasies himself – natal Mars in Pisces opposition Pluto/Uranus in Virgo across the 2nd/8th houses. It’s funny, Pisces crops up an awful lot in the charts of sex crime killers as well as Mars in the 12th and I’m thinking of course there’s a lot of fantasy involved leading up to these terrible crimes. Another thing – often similar patterns in the charts of victims as in perpetrators for example, Jonbenet Ramsey – Mars in the 12th opposition Pluto and Madeleine McCann – Saturn opposition Pluto with a Mars/Neptune conjunction in her 4th house.
A very interesting pattern emerges VF. Thanks for this. I agree about Pisces and the fantasies, and guess that if there’s a trigger or “engine” of some kind then the individual is driven in some way to act those out. And the whole victim/perpetrator connection also seems to crop up regularly. Acting out versus projection? Well, two sides of the same energetic constellation I suppose. I know that sometimes actors have astrological patterns that reflect characters they become famous for playing. And writers and other creatives can clearly channel things into their work. As Marjorie says, it’s all there in the chart.
Yes, Rae, that paragraph is really enlightening and gives a great explanation of the way those two planets manifest when there is friction between them. COLeo, I really hope that you can find a way to get these two energies to work for you. Pluto always leads to buried treasure but you have to dig deep to get to it, in my experience. Having it in the 2nd probably means that you would be a power house in the world of finance, so maybe that’s an avenue to explore along with your writing. Wishing you the very best. I haven’t been where you are but I do know the heaviness of trying to rise to the challenge of warring planets in my chart and trying to give them each some space for expression. Perhaps you ought to consult Marjorie for a personal reading?
Thanks Barb for your kind comments. Interesting you say that about the finances – Pluto in the 2nd is a strange fish – it can (and has, in my case) lead to big, tumultous financial events, for good or ill. I think in my case self-empowerment will impact my attitude to finances – my own, and maybe even helping other people with theirs. In some ways I’m actually quite happy to know I have Mars square Pluto, because I can feel the volcano bubbling underneath, waiting to be unleashed……And yes, a consult with Marjorie is definitely on my wish/to do-list.
Hi, I have Mars (Gemini) in 11th house square 2nd house Pluto (Virgo). I have experienced so much violence and hostility in my life, from parents, sibling, school, and more. In my later life I have become more or less a recluse. I turned my back on the world because I attract so much wariness, rejection and dislike. I also have sun conjunct Pluto and Uranus, so though I’m a soft, ‘nice’ person, obviously I’m not on the inside. If I knew how to productively use my Mars square Pluto, I would.
I think that writing may be a channel fo me, possibly. I feel passionately about certain (unpopular) subjects, and I would need a warrior energy for that. Otherwise I’m a bit stumped.
It’s not so much ‘use it or lose it’ since unfortunately we can’t lose our birth charts. It’s a question of finding a constructive way of living it out and not attracting it to you. Let your passion rip – in writing if you like. Look at PD James, she had a hair raising chart with Pluto trine Mars in Scorpio trine Uranus, opposition Saturn. She was a forensic pathologist as I recollect and a crime writer.
The main thing with Mars Pluto is stop trying to be ‘nice’ – own your power, in whichever direction it lies.
Thanks for your reply, Marjorie. Definitely relate to it being harder for a woman to own that force, and flash the grit and balls. Too easy to take the default ‘nice’ route. From my reading on Mars square Pluto, it can lead to a person being either a force of nature or utterly disempowered. I’m trying to combine ‘nice’ with ‘typhonic force’. It’s a work in (long) progress…
I can relate as I’ve repressed and buried a lot of my Plutonic nature – I’ve been living in the disempowered state for a long time. If it’s any consolation, I have Mars, Sun and Venus opposite Pluto (although Venus is a wider orb than the others). Having just gone through a bunch of tough Pluto square transits all at once, my interest in the planet was peaked. I’m now learning to accept the qualities in myself that I’ve been denying and repressing because they’re ‘bad’ and I’m determined to reclaim my power and live these qualities in their most positive expressions to the best of my ability. I recommend reading Healing Pluto Problems by Susan Cunningham and I wish you luck on your journey.
That is certainly a heavy Pluto opposition to your personal planets – and well done for coming out the other side of the Pluto square with your sanity intact. I wish you all the best on your journey also, in reclaiming your power. Thank you very much for the suggestion of Susan Cunningham’s book – I checked it out on Amazon, and it’s spot on! it sounds like just the thing I need right now.
Reading this post has also reminded me to re-read my Stephen Forrest’s “The book of Pluto” which contains some interesting insights.
Is Mars square Pluto similar to Mars opposite Pluto? Your writing on the challenging aspects between these planets has led me to get a better understanding of my Mars opp Pluto (although I’m worried I’m going to be accused of murder now!)
Statistically speaking the number of people accused of murder is miniscule. A tiny fraction of the Mars Pluto carriers in the universe, so most unlikely.